Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[NoYellowNeck]

NEITHER DOES SPARROWHAWK!!!!!

 

[Keroseneuser]

You very well may be right. But do you have enough evidence to counter the mountain of evidence the company has to support their claim? IMO the judge will issue the injunction 99%; 90% chance of the TRO; and better than 50% chance of damages. I guess we will see.

One thing for sure, you guys sure have created an epic soap opera that has proven to be VERY expensive for all of you.

I doubt the judge will have access to things like this, but there is a mountain of ASAP's and Maint. write ups all recorded in the FAA files and aircraft logbooks. There are many aircraft out there with 4, 5, and 6 writeups of the same descrepency by multable crews. The double engine overtemp on takeoff aircraft had 5 writeups on it in a 2 week period last time I ran across it. Come on now, at least 5 times both engines go red on a takeoff? You cannot tell me that there is a normal airline pilot anywhere in this country that would not be pissed off at being assigned to fly an airplane that had this issue? It goes against everything we are trained and taught. I won't drive my car to the quickie mart with a temperature problem, it is telling you that it does not like what is happening and eventually it will fail. The fact that the aircraft was still being flown I think shows the extreme pressure that the crews are feeling on the line trying to avoid being called on the "carpet"

As a comparison of then and now. About 3 years ago I was called out to pick up and ferry an A/C back to maint base for an engine change. The reason for it being removed from service? One engine went hot on one take off.

 

[BoeingBoy]

YOU DO NOT WORK HERE!!!!!! You do not know what is going on over here on a daily basis.

What I see is those operating the same as always discounting even the possibility that an angry minority of east pilots ARE doing everything they can to cause problems for the company and their east peers. Like jetz, I give those of you who say that you are operating as always the benefit of the doubt. But that's what - 10 out of 3000+ east pilots or even 10 out of ~1800 east captains. Not much of a sample size to base claims of "it's not the pilots" on is it?

Someone a week or so ago posted an example in the "Lanyard" thread - a captain was so mad about the lanyard that he supposedly spent the entire flight across the pond writing items up. Can anyone seriously and honestly say that that many failures occurred in flight? Or did he, in violation of the almighty FOM, take off with minor items not working - a reading lamp here and there, audio out at a seat or two, ect - and write them up in flight knowing that it would take long enough for contract maint to get the logbook cleared that the return flight would at best very late if not canceled?

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I doubt the judge will have access to things like this, but...

The judge doesn't need access - it's USAPA's job to defend itself and it can get that info if if wants (or perhaps more accurately, USAPA's lawyers can).

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

What I see is those operating the same as always discounting even the possibility that an angry minority of east pilots ARE doing everything they can to cause problems for the company and their east peers. Like jetz, I give those of you who say that you are operating as always the benefit of the doubt. But that's what - 10 out of 3000+ east pilots or even 10 out of ~1800 east captains. Not much of a sample size to base claims of "it's not the pilots" on is it?

Someone a week or so ago posted an example in the "Lanyard" thread - a captain was so mad about the lanyard that he supposedly spent the entire flight across the pond writing items up. Can anyone seriously and honestly say that that many failures occurred in flight? Or did he, in violation of the almighty FOM, take off with minor items not working - a reading lamp here and there, audio out at a seat or two, ect - and write them up in flight knowing that it would take long enough for contract maint to get the logbook cleared that the return flight would at best very late if not canceled?

Jim

Jim,

I truly believe that the vast majority of east pilots did not participate in an illegal job operation and the reason I believe it because if the majority did, we wouldn't be operating as well as are! This place is the most screwed up that it has been since the PI/US merger, and something drastic has changed on the maint. end. Not the line mech, but somewhere above. That's why I asked you how long has it been since you've flown here. You and jetz are not here to see it.

As far as the items you listed above, most now go in a CML. No sign off needed. Not sure we had that when you were here.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Jim,

I truly believe that the vast majority of east pilots did not participate in an illegal job operation and the reason I believe it because if the majority did, we wouldn't be operating as well as are!

I think you're right, but that's not going to help for Friday. The injunction slapped on the UAL pilots in 2008 came down to half a dozen pilots or so. Incredibly, the attorneys for UAL in that case (same firm as who represents US Airways in this injunction) used history from the 2000 slow-down to justify the need for an injunction in 2008! And the district judge and the 7th Cir. bought it! Wow.

The problem for USAPA is that there is plenty of evidence to connect their actions as a union to the change in operational metrics. Then, to make matters worse, you've got Cleary sending out President's Updates which exude defiance. You've got Cleary's thugs sending out emails threatening other pilots. And finally, you've got operational metrics that didn't change one bit after the filing of the injunction. Game set match.

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Or.....Maybe it could be one of our brothers or sisters from the west.

Bob

Ya Bob, that's it.

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Uh oh! USLAPPY's status quo suit just got pushed back.

That pretty much means it's done.

Wonder what else Cleary has in his magical FO hat.

 

[Pi brat]

I think you're right, but that's not going to help for Friday. The injunction slapped on the UAL pilots in 2008 came down to half a dozen pilots or so. Incredibly, the attorneys for UAL in that case (same firm as who represents US Airways in this injunction) used history from the 2000 slow-down to justify the need for an injunction in 2008! And the district judge and the 7th Cir. bought it! Wow.

The problem for USAPA is that there is plenty of evidence to connect their actions as a union to the change in operational metrics. Then, to make matters worse, you've got Cleary sending out President's Updates which exude defiance. You've got Cleary's thugs sending out emails threatening other pilots. And finally, you've got operational metrics that didn't change one bit after the filing of the injunction. Game set match.

Maybe so, I just can't see why you guys are so happy about it. This is not a good thing for any of us. Take the Nic blinders off.

 

[luvn737s]

YOU DO NOT WORK HERE!!!!!! You do not know what is going on over here on a daily basis. We do understand, it's just maddening that this management team is dragging down this company. I fully expect that the company will get an injunction, but it is my JOB to operate the aircraft as I feel safe and I will do that. I have not, and will never participate in an illegal job action.

No, the company is operating just as they have for over a quarter century, still receiving awards for their commitment to running a safe operation and still making improvements in operations. As a matter of fact the number of inop APUs seems much much lower this summer than I have seen in many years.

What company do you work for?

Is Cleary some kind of master hypnotist?

 

[prechilill]

Maybe so, I just can't see why you guys are so happy about it. This is not a good thing for any of us. Take the Nic blinders off.

Why should we support your union? Whose side should the Cactus 18 be on?

 

[cleardirect]

YOU DO NOT WORK HERE!!!!!! You do not know what is going on over here on a daily basis. We do understand, it's just maddening that this management team is dragging down this company. I fully expect that the company will get an injunction, but it is my JOB to operate the aircraft as I feel safe and I will do that. I have not, and will never participate in an illegal job action.

This is a funny statement right here. The company is dragging you down? This from a a pilot that worked at an airline that was twice BK and about to go out of business. An airline that most of the entire east coast hated and crashed several airplanes over the years. You guys had nowhere to go up up. You had dragged yourself down. it is the east pilots that are trying to drag this airline down not management.

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Pu, among others, had stated that LOA93 is better than the alternative. By alternative, he means a contract with Nic in S22.

So my question is who is holding up the contract?

Sounds to me like it's the east that doesn't want a new contract.

 

[Pi brat]

No, the company is operating just as they have for over a quarter century, still receiving awards for their commitment to running a safe operation and still making improvements in operations.

You don't work on the east, and I can assure the way we are operating today is not the way it was done for the last 25 years.

What awards are you talking about? The one from the FAA when they almost shut you down?

 

[Pi brat]

Why should we support your union? Whose side should the Cactus 18 be on?

Like it or not, its your union too. Take them on about the issues you disagree on, but don't make everything about the Nic. That is what you guys are doing, just like some on the east make everything about DOH. I would expect the C18 to understand what it's like to be falsely accused, except the few that actually made calls, and speak out about it. I took my union on over the C18.