Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[USA320Pilot]

On Friday afternoon I expect Judge Conrad to issue a TRO against USAPA for encouraging and supporting an illegal slowdown under the guise of safety. Then when USAPA and its zealots continue their actions I suspect US Airways will drag USAPA back into court and then Judge Conrad will lay down the hammer. To see a video on how I believe USAPA will end up click on the following link:

http://biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=28443

 

[Pi brat]

On Friday afternoon I expect Judge Conrad to issue a TRO against USAPA for encouraging and supporting an illegal slowdown under the guise of safety. Then when USAPA and its zealots continue their actions I suspect US Airways will drag USAPA back into court and then Judge Conrad will lay down the hammer. To see a video on how I believe USAPA will end up click on the following link:

http://biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=28443

Well, I will sleep well tonight, as I have never known you to be right about ANYTHING! Hey westies, whatever you do, listen to this guy! Are you on a red-eye right now? Kinda late for you.

 

[TheBadCat1313]

You know what, I think you might be the first person to acknowledge that. Thanks.

But here's a question: How many of those write-ups were found to not be valid? The FOM contains no cut-off time for writing up a defective item. Sure, some guys may have waited, but I would say that most did not, because this outfit could not run as well as it has if too many guys did that.

I had just such an item today, and it went through my mind "I wonder if I will get a call about this". I still did what I KNOW was the right thing and wrote it up, but I shouldn't have to worry and be distracted by that kind of thing.

There have been certain behaviors going on at this airline for years. Ever since the east didn't get pay parity. Maybe they happened before Mr. Isom showed up, show there has been no change to notice!

This place is off track, and the west pilots are helping with that. You guys have your noses so far up management's backsides, hoping to make us look really bad. Do you think when this is over you will be able to pull it out and not have a stink? You're next.

West pilots don't need to have their noses up management's backsides. USAPA has done a great job of derailing this company all by itself. We've been doing our job the way we always have, nothing more, nothing less. If you want solidarity and a pilot group that can actually get something done, drop your silly DOH campaign, honor your commitment to the Nicolau award and give the west a proportionate share in the actual representation of this pilot group.

 

[aquagreen73s]

If some judge actually renders an injunction against writing up broken airworthy items, It seems our only choice will to be to stay home since nothing we can do would be a legal action. Aviation is very unforgiving to those that ignore basic safety.

The injunction isn't about when or if pilots can write up maintenance items; it's about statistically significant increases in maintenance writeups on the East as compared to: (1) historical norms; and (2) West operation. The injunction is also about flight delays and completions as compared to: (1) historical norms; (2) the west operation; and (3) express operation. The spike in East only maintenance write-ups and delays is undeniable, but we need to ask whether there is an explanation and that's where the company has USAPA cornered. Cleary has once again made the case for his opposition. The union is going to be holding the bag and it will be the union which faces sanctions for violating the inevitable contempt order that's coming down when the stats don't improve. Individual pilots are free to do continue to execute their jobs as they see fit, but there will be a real problem for the union if the stats indicate that nothing has changed after the TRO issues.

 

[A320 Driver]

The injunction isn't about when or if pilots can write up maintenance items;

It is now...

 

[767one]

You know what AW, it's posts like this that really make me think that I made a mistake letting a little issue I came across in LAS last month pass.


The last threat I heard about against and airliner was made by an irate passenger, and God knows we produce a ton of those.

Here's just a really wild, crazy ass idea-let's let the people in charge of things like that figure out what happened before we hang someone. What do you say?

Pi,

You are right on about irate passengers. After my experience Sun night with 3 airplane changes and gate changes and almost 2 hrs late to DUB there was so much irritation on that airplane that if the passengers were oysters they would have been shitting pearls. The point in my post was that USAPA is not responsible for all the evil in the world. That would be like blaming only the republicans or democrats for what is going on in our country.


Regards,


Bob

 

[767one]

You know what, I think you might be the first person to acknowledge that. Thanks.

But here's a question: How many of those write-ups were found to not be valid? The FOM contains no cut-off time for writing up a defective item. Sure, some guys may have waited, but I would say that most did not, because this outfit could not run as well as it has if too many guys did that.

I had just such an item today, and it went through my mind "I wonder if I will get a call about this". I still did what I KNOW was the right thing and wrote it up, but I shouldn't have to worry and be distracted by that kind of thing.

There have been certain behaviors going on at this airline for years. Ever since the east didn't get pay parity. Maybe they happened before Mr. Isom showed up, show there has been no change to notice!

This place is off track, and the west pilots are helping with that. You guys have your noses so far up management's backsides, hoping to make us look really bad. Do you think when this is over you will be able to pull it out and not have a stink? You're next.

Right on! I'm not going to ignore something that is brought to my attention, or happens, or we find just before departure just because it looks like we did it on purpose. I see no reason to change just because the company is on a witch hunt. Last week I got a line check from the company. We found something 10 min before departure so it was taken care of, I taxiied at the same speed I always have, started both engines because of a tight gate area. In a nutshell did everything by the book like I was taught and when we arrived in PHL we were 15 min. late. The check airman praised our sop's, handling of mel's, handling or an abnormal on rotation, crm and use of a qualified jumpseater during the abnormal. This place IS off track and by flying per the fom as best we can will eventually fix it.


Regards,


Bob

 

[767one]

Well, I will sleep well tonight, as I have never known you to be right about ANYTHING! Hey westies, whatever you do, listen to this guy! Are you on a red-eye right now? Kinda late for you.

If the TRO is in place the sun will rise, the sun will set, if something needs to be written up it will be written up, if a pilot is sick he/she will call in sick, if a pilot is fatigued he/she will call in fatigued ect, ect, and all will be documented. If the last several months issues are investigated on a case by case basis I think what will be found is that the east pilots have been operating as trained per the fom and the company is using the TRO against the pilots to cover up their (managements) many shortcomings.


Regards,


Bob

 

[Keroseneuser]

If the TRO is in place the sun will rise, the sun will set, if something needs to be written up it will be written up, if a pilot is sick he/she will call in sick, if a pilot is fatigued he/she will call in fatigued ect, ect, and all will be documented. If the last several months issues are investigated on a case by case basis I think what will be found is that the east pilots have been operating as trained per the fom and the company is using the TRO against the pilots to cover up their (managements) many shortcomings.


Regards,


Bob

Looking back at the last six months of flying I have done, The items I write up have not changed. What seems to have changed is the amount of things not getting fixed.

At least on my end the schedule has degraded, we have no reserves avalible on a daily basis, pilots are pushed to the limit. PT time changes during PT, on duty all night then assigned to fly an all day international trip because "PT times don't apply" (Dont know when they are supposed to sleep in that senario?) 6 days of non stop flying is the norm for the reserves with an occasional DH leg tossed in to stay off 30 in 7. Maint. items and MEL's that we never saw on the east before are everywhere etc etc.

If anything I personally think that the change the stats show is more a result of the company trying to push a schedule that we dont have the airplanes, maint. or crews to keep up with. Investigate this on a case by case and I think you will see it's not the crews that have changed so much as the operation. I have never delayed or wrote up an A/C with anything that didnt follow the FOM or the regulations. If it's safe, legal, and documented correctly I fly it.
In the current envionment if pilots were making up stuff to delay a/c they would be fired, that is not happening in mass because the write ups are real legitimate broken items that are not getting fixed in normal maint like they used to. But I am just one guy out there and from the East so I must be a degenerate that makes stuff up right?

The only change I have made in the last 6 months is the amount of ASAP's I file. With what is going on I make sure there is an ASAP on file for any airplane, operation, or scheduling issue that might be twisted by some desk jockey or number cruncher. Other than that I fly it like I have since day one at the company.

 

[767jetz]

It's amazing how some of you guys STILL don't get what is happening or what this injunctions and TRO means.

OF COURSE there is not one pilot who will come on this or any other forum and say they are "onboard" with any illegal job action. OJ didn't walk into court and say "I did it!" did he? Neither did Warren Jeffs. So saying you have never participated in a job action, and that things will continue as is irrelevant. Whether you are telling the truth or not. And for the sake of this discussion I will accept your statements as fact.

BUT, it doesn't matter what you say. If the company can prove to the satisfaction of the judge, with statistical data, that there is a work action going on, even by just a few who do not come onto this forum... then THAT is all that matters. And if it continues as is, USAPA will be slapped with damages that will bankrupt your union into oblivion, and possibly subject all members (on the east... that separate ops thing) even the innocent ones, with assessments.

So coming here and proclaiming that you are doing nothing wrong and will continue to operate at the same safety level as you always have is just fine and dandy, but changes nothing. If you are innocent, then you have nothing personally to worry about. But the ones who ARE doing it will bring down your whole union with them. THAT is all that matters. Once again it is the few who are putting the whole into peril.

Take it from someone who is part of a group operating under an injunction for years now. This is serious stuff. And if damages are awarded to the company, they will have the biggest sledgehammer you have ever seen leveled squarely at your collective head. The only way out at that point will be capitulation to the Nic and a substandard (or if you're lucky, an industry standard) contract. Just ask the AA guys how they saved their union from oblivion.

Remember, the injunction is not aimed at you individually. It's aimed at USAPA.

 

[autofixer]

It's amazing how some of you guys STILL don't get what is happening or what this injunctions and TRO means.

OF COURSE there is not one pilot who will come on this or any other forum and say they are "onboard" with any illegal job action. OJ didn't walk into court and say "I did it!" did he? Neither did Warren Jeffs. So saying you have never participated in a job action, and that things will continue as is irrelevant. Whether you are telling the truth or not. And for the sake of this discussion I will accept your statements as fact.

BUT, it doesn't matter what you say. If the company can prove to the satisfaction of the judge, with statistical data, that there is a work action going on, even by just a few who do not come onto this forum... then THAT is all that matters. And if it continues as is, USAPA will be slapped with damages that will bankrupt your union into oblivion, and possibly subject all members (on the east... that separate ops thing) even the innocent ones, with assessments.

So coming here and proclaiming that you are doing nothing wrong and will continue to operate at the same safety level as you always have is just fine and dandy, but changes nothing. If you are innocent, then you have nothing personally to worry about. But the ones who ARE doing it will bring down your whole union with them. THAT is all that matters. Once again it is the few who are putting the whole into peril.

Take it from someone who is part of a group operating under an injunction for years now. This is serious stuff. And if damages are awarded to the company, they will have the biggest sledgehammer you have ever seen leveled squarely at your collective head. The only way out at that point will be capitulation to the Nic and a substandard (or if you're lucky, an industry standard) contract. Just ask the AA guys how they saved their union from oblivion.

Remember, the injunction is not aimed at you individually. It's aimed at USAPA.

If a judge should tell pilots how to operate, take a page out of the company's book. File chapter 11 and reorganize as USAPAII, III,IV...

 

[Res Judicata]

It's amazing how some of you guys STILL don't get what is happening or what this injunctions and TRO means.

OF COURSE there is not one pilot who will come on this or any other forum and say they are "onboard" with any illegal job action. OJ didn't walk into court and say "I did it!" did he? Neither did Warren Jeffs. So saying you have never participated in a job action, and that things will continue as is irrelevant. Whether you are telling the truth or not. And for the sake of this discussion I will accept your statements as fact.

BUT, it doesn't matter what you say. If the company can prove to the satisfaction of the judge, with statistical data, that there is a work action going on, even by just a few who do not come onto this forum... then THAT is all that matters. And if it continues as is, USAPA will be slapped with damages that will bankrupt your union into oblivion, and possibly subject all members (on the east... that separate ops thing) even the innocent ones, with assessments.

So coming here and proclaiming that you are doing nothing wrong and will continue to operate at the same safety level as you always have is just fine and dandy, but changes nothing. If you are innocent, then you have nothing personally to worry about. But the ones who ARE doing it will bring down your whole union with them. THAT is all that matters. Once again it is the few who are putting the whole into peril.

Take it from someone who is part of a group operating under an injunction for years now. This is serious stuff. And if damages are awarded to the company, they will have the biggest sledgehammer you have ever seen leveled squarely at your collective head. The only way out at that point will be capitulation to the Nic and a substandard (or if you're lucky, an industry standard) contract. Just ask the AA guys how they saved their union from oblivion.

Remember, the injunction is not aimed at you individually. It's aimed at USAPA.

Save your breath. These people are so mentally damaged and Narcissistic that they'll never understand. They think they're above everything and should be first in line no matter what. Pretty deranged behavior for a group of hourly employees.

 

[767jetz]

If anything I personally think that the change the stats show is more a result of the company trying to push a schedule that we dont have the airplanes, maint. or crews to keep up with.

You very well may be right. But do you have enough evidence to counter the mountain of evidence the company has to support their claim? IMO the judge will issue the injunction 99%; 90% chance of the TRO; and better than 50% chance of damages. I guess we will see.

One thing for sure, you guys sure have created an epic soap opera that has proven to be VERY expensive for all of you.

 

[767jetz]

If a judge should tell pilots how to operate, take a page out of the company's book. File chapter 11 and reorganize as USAPAII, III,IV...

The judge will not tell any pilots how to operate. the judge will decide if there is a work action in his opinion. Then he will order USAPA to take corrective action. USAPA will be bound to remind pilots VERY publicly, in EVERY communication, the need to continue the status quo, not call in sick unless actually sick, not to write up things at the last minute when they are found 40 minutes before departure, not to deliberately taxi unusually slow, etc. etc. etc.

They will need to take very strong action against any pilot trying to communicate hidden messages such as "+16" and "pink panty" awards. If it continues the union will be held in contempt of court and fined out of existence. If a TRO is imposed and disregarded, some could actually serve jail time. Not to mention facing termination. Trust me, UA has been living with this for years. It is a very real and serious threat. Luckily in our case there was no TRO and no damages sought. Some of you easties seem to be crazy enough to put your entire union in peril.

And for what it's worth, this separate ops you love so much means that only the east pilots will be subject to damages. The injunction, TRO, and damages will follow any subsequent union you decide to vote in next time. They inherit everything. Which means the assessment will follow you, even with USAPA II.

 

[Pi brat]

It's amazing how some of you guys STILL don't get what is happening or what this injunctions and TRO means.

OF COURSE there is not one pilot who will come on this or any other forum and say they are "onboard" with any illegal job action. OJ didn't walk into court and say "I did it!" did he? Neither did Warren Jeffs. So saying you have never participated in a job action, and that things will continue as is irrelevant. Whether you are telling the truth or not. And for the sake of this discussion I will accept your statements as fact.

BUT, it doesn't matter what you say. If the company can prove to the satisfaction of the judge, with statistical data, that there is a work action going on, even by just a few who do not come onto this forum... then THAT is all that matters. And if it continues as is, USAPA will be slapped with damages that will bankrupt your union into oblivion, and possibly subject all members (on the east... that separate ops thing) even the innocent ones, with assessments.

So coming here and proclaiming that you are doing nothing wrong and will continue to operate at the same safety level as you always have is just fine and dandy, but changes nothing. If you are innocent, then you have nothing personally to worry about. But the ones who ARE doing it will bring down your whole union with them. THAT is all that matters. Once again it is the few who are putting the whole into peril.

Take it from someone who is part of a group operating under an injunction for years now. This is serious stuff. And if damages are awarded to the company, they will have the biggest sledgehammer you have ever seen leveled squarely at your collective head. The only way out at that point will be capitulation to the Nic and a substandard (or if you're lucky, an industry standard) contract. Just ask the AA guys how they saved their union from oblivion.

Remember, the injunction is not aimed at you individually. It's aimed at USAPA.

YOU DO NOT WORK HERE!!!!!! You do not know what is going on over here on a daily basis. We do understand, it's just maddening that this management team is dragging down this company. I fully expect that the company will get an injunction, but it is my JOB to operate the aircraft as I feel safe and I will do that. I have not, and will never participate in an illegal job action.