Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[usfliboi]

I was unaware that this was a union board. Are anti- workgroup posts not allowed? I've been catching up on old posts and have see non-employees post here as well. And I'm curious as to why you keep posting about this unfortunate person. It was posted before that it is undetermined as to whether or not fumes contributed to her illness. Wouldn't we have seen lawsuits by now? Wouldn't we see more from the AFA? OSHA? Feds? Where is all the activity that comes with these events? Personally, I think you're irresponsible for posting this as well as the AFA for wording it that way.

Hard core union members make up about 6 to 9 percent of each unionized area. You usually see those on here and as you can see....they dont like it when you have a different opinion... NO MATTER WHAT! Many of these live in a fantasy world and believe that things have never changed since the eighties! They are in denial and continue to use the same ole broken union tactics that no longer work. What they dont understand is they can only control themselves and no one else. Just continue to humor those who stay in denial. Its a very lonely world they live in.... There will never be a company "who is profitable" that they will agree with its management. There is nothing wrong with working with a corporation to make things better. I can agree and disagree with this company however it is my goal to make sure they remain profitable...afterall I earn the paycheck they provide for me!

In regards to "fumes".... No one denies that there hasnt been a few ligitimate events. All others are hype and once the contracts are signed watch how fast unions drop the topic and move on to other topics of the week!

 

[pjirish317]

Hard core union members make up about 6 to 9 percent of each unionized area. You usually see those on here and as you can see....they dont like it when you have a different opinion... NO MATTER WHAT! Many of these live in a fantasy world and believe that things have never changed since the eighties! They are in denial and continue to use the same ole broken union tactics that no longer work. What they dont understand is they can only control themselves and no one else. Just continue to humor those who stay in denial. Its a very lonely world they live in.... There will never be a company "who is profitable" that they will agree with its management. There is nothing wrong with working with a corporation to make things better. I can agree and disagree with this company however it is my goal to make sure they remain profitable...afterall I earn the paycheck they provide for me!

In regards to "fumes".... No one denies that there hasnt been a few ligitimate events. All others are hype and once the contracts are signed watch how fast unions drop the topic and move on to other topics of the week!

usfliboi,

You are correct in saying that there is nothing wrong with working with the company to make things better. Where you stray off course, is, with this company, they have no desire to work with the unions at all. If they did, there wouldn't be such a backlog of grievances waiting for either mediation/arbitration. When this company shows a real desire to make things better and work with each respective workgroup, when the braintrust realizes that the employees are valuable assests to their "bottom line", then you might have something, until then though, it will still be us vs. them.

 

[Move2CLT]

What you can't get around is that these incidents are happening and it's not just AFA reporting them. Being an intelligent human being you also know it's nearly impossible to prove cause and effect in cases like the one on the e-line. I am also now hearing of reports of fumes and such on West operated flights as well. Just got one in my inbox, haven't confirmed it yet.

To me this doesn't seem like a union negotiating tactic and if it is, it was planned out far better than the ham handed effort alleged by USAPA

What exactly are you getting in your in box?

 

[Move2CLT]

usfliboi,

You are correct in saying that there is nothing wrong with working with the company to make things better. Where you stray off course, is, with this company, they have no desire to work with the unions at all. If they did, there wouldn't be such a backlog of grievances waiting for either mediation/arbitration. When this company shows a real desire to make things better and work with each respective workgroup, when the braintrust realizes that the employees are valuable assests to their "bottom line", then you might have something, until then though, it will still be us vs. them.

That backlog you speak of is Tracey. She's the most incompetent GC I have ever seen in that position. Or is she? When USAPA wants to move a grievance though, it moves fast. Take our DL grievance - lightning fast and the company won it without a fight. ACARS, different story. I, among others, grieved the change to the west's triggers. How's that going? Not a peep.

 

[SparrowHawk]

What exactly are you getting in your in box?

Many things actually, copies of stuff I shouldn't see.

Name, Address & phone of certain men and women of goodwill who are concerned

Victim into, some of which has been posted here.

The above is all you get, so tell Jerry you struck out.

 

[Move2CLT]

Jerry Glass? You think I'm Jerry Glass? Is that how you respond to someone who questions your sources? Take this for what it's worth, but some of your replies both to myself and others have been nothing more than you posting for the sake of posting. You even contradict yourself on some of your posts and it looks like you know the art of double-speak. Please, by all means, ignore me. But I will continue to question your info as wellas that of anyone else. And I don't understand why anyone would see you ad a clearing house for concerns regarding company issues.

If anyone else wants to jump in on this I'd appreciate it.

 

[cleardirect]

usfliboi,

You are correct in saying that there is nothing wrong with working with the company to make things better. Where you stray off course, is, with this company, they have no desire to work with the unions at all. If they did, there wouldn't be such a backlog of grievances waiting for either mediation/arbitration. When this company shows a real desire to make things better and work with each respective workgroup, when the braintrust realizes that the employees are valuable assests to their "bottom line", then you might have something, until then though, it will still be us vs. them.

Correction. They now have no desire to work with east pilots and usapa. The west could work with management and got things done. No that does not mean we caved it means we came to agreements. Yes the GC is the worst thing ever. Incapable of handling grievances. NAC incapable of neg. Cleary incapable of having a civil discussion with the company.

Plus there is that little issue of trust and honesty. East pilots fail to live up to their deals. Their word is no good.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Correction. They now have no desire to work with east pilots and usapa. The west could work with management and got things done. No that does not mean we caved it means we came to agreements. Yes the GC is the worst thing ever. Incapable of handling grievances. NAC incapable of neg. Cleary incapable of having a civil discussion with the company.

Plus there is that little issue of trust and honesty. East pilots fail to live up to their deals. Their word is no good.

I don't think you can lay the lack of trust at any specific party's feet in this case.

Management is the least trusted group from where I sit.

USAPA is a close second

The west Pilots are not to be trusted either but they have some credibility.

So your argument essentially is "We Suck Less"? Not exactly a Nobel Prize winning argument.

 

[nic4us]

The west Pilots are not to be trusted either but they have some credibility.

You can trust the West pilots to sue the company and usapa (or any future union) for any non-Nic contract.

I suppose that is the credibility to which you refer. The West pilots say they are going to do something, and they do it.

 

[Move2CLT]

I don't think you can lay the lack of trust at any specific party's feet in this case.

Management is the least trusted group from where I sit.

USAPA is a close second

The west Pilots are not to be trusted either but they have some credibility.

So your argument essentially is "We Suck Less"? Not exactly a Nobel Prize winning argument.

Why are west pilots not to bs trusted? Can you give a reason or two?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Why are west pilots not to bs trusted? Can you give a reason or two?

I really don't want to rehash this from over a year ago so let me see if I can give you the short version. From what I remember both pilot groups staked out some pretty extreme positions. So binding arbitration was required. East & West ALPA leaders bear a ton of responsibility IMO for the current situation. Had both sides been a little more open to negotiation and flexible none of us would be chatting on this topic now.

I also seem to recall some less than upstanding conduct on the west side.

Frankly I'm really disappointed in both pilot groups. Speaking totally from the heart now, From the time I was a little boy I thought pilots were just the coolest people in the whole wide world. A pilot, WOW what be cooler than that? An Astronaut was cooler but they were all pilots back then. The little bitty town I grew up in we had a guy who worked for a Corporate Executive as his personal pilot, flew a Lear jet and he was always so nice to us kids who used to ask him about being a pilot. He had great stories too. To a kid who had never been more than 20 miles from home his job seemed so glamorous and exciting. I never actually wanted to be a pilot, I just thought they were cool. When I started traveling for business I got to talk to quite a few and they were all just so polite and professional even the ones on the Beech1900D who didn't look old enough to shave. So as a group they always had my admiration and respect.

Fast forward to this bunch and let's just say the bloom is off the rose and it pisses me off.

 

[luvthe9]

Correction. They now have no desire to work with east pilots and usapa. The west could work with management and got things done. No that does not mean we caved it means we came to agreements. Yes the GC is the worst thing ever. Incapable of handling grievances. NAC incapable of neg. Cleary incapable of having a civil discussion with the company.

Plus there is that little issue of trust and honesty. East pilots fail to live up to their deals. Their word is no good.

You worked with management so well that you were the lowest paid for decades. Also no retirement at all or profit share until the east pilots helped.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I also seem to recall some less than upstanding conduct on the west side.

Alleged less than upstanding conduct on the west side. Thrown out of court with prejudice. To be honest, though, did some westies do some things they shouldn't? Most likely. Not an excuse to paint the entire west pilot group with the charge, though.

Jim

 

[aquagreen73s]

You can trust the West pilots to sue the company and usapa (or any future union) for any non-Nic contract.

I suppose that is the credibility to which you refer. The West pilots say they are going to do something, and they do it.

And back it up with their wallets. Conviction, what a concept! Unity, what a concept! Two things that are apparently not understood by those on the East who are running around with wild theories about ALPA, Parker, and little green men from Mars funding the West litigation. Nope. It's ya'll's worst nightmare: pilots standing together.

 

[cactusboy53]

I really don't want to rehash this from over a year ago so let me see if I can give you the short version. From what I remember both pilot groups staked out some pretty extreme positions. So binding arbitration was required. East & West ALPA leaders bear a ton of responsibility IMO for the current situation. Had both sides been a little more open to negotiation and flexible none of us would be chatting on this topic now.

I also seem to recall some less than upstanding conduct on the west side.

Frankly I'm really disappointed in both pilot groups. Speaking totally from the heart now, From the time I was a little boy I thought pilots were just the coolest people in the whole wide world. A pilot, WOW what be cooler than that? An Astronaut was cooler but they were all pilots back then. The little bitty town I grew up in we had a guy who worked for a Corporate Executive as his personal pilot, flew a Lear jet and he was always so nice to us kids who used to ask him about being a pilot. He had great stories too. To a kid who had never been more than 20 miles from home his job seemed so glamorous and exciting. I never actually wanted to be a pilot, I just thought they were cool. When I started traveling for business I got to talk to quite a few and they were all just so polite and professional even the ones on the Beech1900D who didn't look old enough to shave. So as a group they always had my admiration and respect.

Fast forward to this bunch and let's just say the bloom is off the rose and it pisses me off.

I'm sorry Sparrow, but your first paragraph outs you & leads me to the conclusion that you must be either an AAA pilot, retired AAA pilot, the wife/husband/daughter/son of an AAA pilot, have a good friend(s) that are AAA pilots, always wanted to be an AAA pilot, or you have failed to read the actual history of how we got here OR have read the history and are utterly clueless.

Our "extreme position" was relative seniority vs. STAPLING the tankering US Air below all AWA pilots (now THAT's EXTREME...kind of like DATE OF HIRE). You wouldn't be disappointed in anyone had the AAA pilot group accepted the final & binding award and moved on to a new contract. You might have even seen us successfully merge with Delta and actually be the envy of the commercial aviation community vs. being the pariah.

We (the West) walked into merger negotiations with the intent of dealing fairly with our merger partners (the East pilot group). We were lied to, given pilot seniority lists that did not reflect the actual AAA pilot body (if memory serves), bullied, threatened, sued, attempted firings, had information withheld, have been kicked off of key committee positions, sued again, had an attempt at circumventing a binding arbitration via DOH w/ C&R's and lied to some more. Throughout this ordeal, the West pilots have been forced to pay dues (vs. being FIRED) to help financially fuel the USAPA DOH dream, while having to pay our own legal bills in defense. Can you even imagine what that must be like?