NoMoreKoolAid
Senior
- Nov 12, 2007
- 315
- 20
Terrible Airline, Bad Customer Relations
- Thread starter DDMAN
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #77
Wow. I didn't expect to get this much dialog when I posted this topic. I'm not sure were to start since I recently returned from a trip to Upstate New York (on Jet Blue) and read all of the new replies. This post would get to long if I attempted to "quote" all of the posts I wanted to address, so I will just list my commentary below.
First of all, some comments seem to imply I am directing my dissatisfaction to the front line workers (Ticket Agents, Gate Agents, Flight Attendants, etc.). That is not the case. These folks only work within the "constraints" encumbered upon them from upper management. I only express my dissatisfaction with the appropriate department or manager. My father retired from Eastern Airlines. My older brother worked there too. He later went to work for Northwest in Atlanta. After they closed aircraft maintenance operations there, he moved to Minneapolis. Later, because of outsourcing, he lost his job.
Some seem comments posted are about over the cause of the delay. While I do not believe that weather was involved since the originating flight was on a smaller regional aircraft and I checked the weather in the area. I did call reservations today to get the cause for delay. They informed me that they can only view information for the past seven days and gave me the number to another department to get the information. I called yesterday and spoke to a very pleasant person. She put me on hold for a while and later informed me that the system is down. She took my name and number and said she would call me after the information was retrieved. I will post the answer after they call me back.
About my recent trip on Jet Blue. We boarded the aircraft Friday afternoon. Then there was announcement that the there would be a delay leaving because we were waiting for connecting passengers to board from a delayed flight. I applaud them. We actually arrived at JFK early. Jet Blue has an LDC TV in all the seatbacks with 30+ channels of Direct TV (free) plus 3 channels of movies ($5.00 per movie). One of the channels shows the aircrafts position along with the altitude and airspeed. I was more interested in watching Die Hard 4 (I think), but since the middle seat was open we had it set to view the aircraft progress. The fastest airspeed I read was 696 MPH. I realize this is a fortunate result of weather. My connecting flight into SYR had to delay landing for 15 minutes since visibility was to low. We cruised around for about 15 minutes and then landed. Returning last Sunday there were many weather related delays in the NE. My originating return flight left about two hours late. They periodically announced the status. I was fortunate that my connection was another two hours after the flight landed. I was able to have a beer and watch some football at JFK. They have really good chicken strips. The flight departing JFK boarded on time, but we sat there waiting for the pilot to arrive. After the pilot arrived they announced that take off would happen shortly and the flight may need to make an unscheduled fuel stop in Salt Lake City. I was seated near the front and heard another passenger complain about the possible fuel stop. The attendant explained that the A320 on rare occasions may need to make an extra fuel stop on this route when there are strong head winds and a full flight. The passenger kept complaining. I told the passenger next to me that I would be happy to stop for fuel is the pilot thinks we need to. After all, what are the options? The pilot also made a few announcements with updates on our progress. Some of the delay in departure was made up on the ground since there were so many canceled flights we were able to go right to the front of the line for take off. Fortunately, we did not need to stop for fuel and landed about 15 minutes late. Yesterday I received the following unsolicited email from Jet Blue:
Thank you for flying with JetBlue Airways on flight # from New York's JFK on December 2, 2007. We regret that we were not able to operate your flight as scheduled because of the fuel stop in Salt Lake City. We sincerely apologize for your late arrival and the inconvenience the situation may have caused you. As always, the safety of our customers is our first consideration.
As part of our commitment to you and consistent with our Customer Bill of Rights, we have issued you a $25 JetBlue electronic Voucher. When you are ready to use your Voucher, please call 1-800-JETBLUE (538-2583) with your confirmation number for this flight. The Voucher is for you and is non-transferable. JetBlue Vouchers are valid for one year and can be applied towards JetBlue Airways reservations or to the airfare portion of a JetBlue Getaways vacation package. Please visit our website's Help section for more information on how to use your Voucher.
We thank you for choosing to fly with JetBlue Airways and hope you will continue to look to us for your travel needs. We look forward to welcoming you onboard with us again soon.
Sincerely,
JetBlue Airways
Isn’t that impressive? I’ll have to call and mention the flight didn’t actually make the fuel stop. My guess is they will still want to honor the voucher.
Someone stated, “At the same time, the passenger started off implying that his daughter was stuck overnight when she was not.â€
Please reread my posts. My original post had no mention of overnight. My second post stated she technically arrived the next day with dates and times. To say I am implying she was stuck overnight is taking my statement out of context.
WCT posted, “You just hit the nail on the head. As many different airlines you are flying in the future explains you are just looking for the "GOOD" deal! IF you were actually a loyal US flyer, or other airline, which you might be, I would, yes have sympathy for you. I am sure if one little thing goes wrong on any of those other carriers, you will complain too, and the story goes on and on. Whatever happened to appreciation, and happy the airline is actually safe to travel???? Have we forgotten all the things that have been sacrificed to make us safer, and lost wages, pensions, etc. Think about it!
All airlines should operate safely or they should not be in business. Jimntx offers several good points. Since my daughter will be traveling in and out of the NE quite a bit over the next four years, I enrolled all of us in the US Airways FF program with intentions that we would fly US quite a bit. After two bad experiences she asked if we could not use US again. I do try to stay with as few airlines as possible to earn rewards. The trip I just took on Jet Blue only cost me $10.00 since I had earned a “free†round trip. However, factors such as routes, schedule and PRICE do come into play. I could have used a reward my wife earned for her to travel from LAX to JFK in January, but since the group she is traveling with from there is booked on American, I paid for a flight on American. This way they can treat it as a connecting flight and check the bags through to the final destination and she can connect in the same terminal. The convenience was worth the cost of the ticket. For someone to think a traveler should be loyal to a single airline is silly. Jet Blue is my favorite, but I can’t fly them everywhere.
Finally, US CREW posted, “I think that the intent of the OP was to vent and insult US Airways employees. He does not seem that interested in the cause of the delay; rather, just the compensation for the suffering and 'expensive' ticket. He has already made up his mind about US when he named the title of this thread, and has stated that he has made future travel plans on other carriers. So, best of luck with future flights, and I guess you won't be visiting this site much more since we're such a 'terrible airline'.â€
Did I want to vent? Yes. Insult US Airways Employees? Certainly not. Other than “Terrible Airlineâ€, please point out something in one of my posts that was an insult. We’ll see what my request for the cause of delay brings. But Customer Relations doesn’t seem to care. None of the three emails I received from them has any mention about the cause of delay the cause of delay. I would think they would point it out. Am I interested in just compensation? Yes and no. Mostly, I want US Airways to treat me a little more personally. However, if you’re going to charge me a huge premium for a product, you better step up give me what I paid for and any compensation should correlate to the ticket price. One email from Customer Relations states,†As a gesture of goodwill we do compensate based on the delay and inconvenience you experienced not on the ticket price.†With that logic, I could get the same compensation for a $150.00 ticket (or less). It doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s the way I was treated and the responses from Customer Relations that led to my venting.
Thanks again to everyone that posted. I am grateful for your opinions.
First of all, some comments seem to imply I am directing my dissatisfaction to the front line workers (Ticket Agents, Gate Agents, Flight Attendants, etc.). That is not the case. These folks only work within the "constraints" encumbered upon them from upper management. I only express my dissatisfaction with the appropriate department or manager. My father retired from Eastern Airlines. My older brother worked there too. He later went to work for Northwest in Atlanta. After they closed aircraft maintenance operations there, he moved to Minneapolis. Later, because of outsourcing, he lost his job.
Some seem comments posted are about over the cause of the delay. While I do not believe that weather was involved since the originating flight was on a smaller regional aircraft and I checked the weather in the area. I did call reservations today to get the cause for delay. They informed me that they can only view information for the past seven days and gave me the number to another department to get the information. I called yesterday and spoke to a very pleasant person. She put me on hold for a while and later informed me that the system is down. She took my name and number and said she would call me after the information was retrieved. I will post the answer after they call me back.
About my recent trip on Jet Blue. We boarded the aircraft Friday afternoon. Then there was announcement that the there would be a delay leaving because we were waiting for connecting passengers to board from a delayed flight. I applaud them. We actually arrived at JFK early. Jet Blue has an LDC TV in all the seatbacks with 30+ channels of Direct TV (free) plus 3 channels of movies ($5.00 per movie). One of the channels shows the aircrafts position along with the altitude and airspeed. I was more interested in watching Die Hard 4 (I think), but since the middle seat was open we had it set to view the aircraft progress. The fastest airspeed I read was 696 MPH. I realize this is a fortunate result of weather. My connecting flight into SYR had to delay landing for 15 minutes since visibility was to low. We cruised around for about 15 minutes and then landed. Returning last Sunday there were many weather related delays in the NE. My originating return flight left about two hours late. They periodically announced the status. I was fortunate that my connection was another two hours after the flight landed. I was able to have a beer and watch some football at JFK. They have really good chicken strips. The flight departing JFK boarded on time, but we sat there waiting for the pilot to arrive. After the pilot arrived they announced that take off would happen shortly and the flight may need to make an unscheduled fuel stop in Salt Lake City. I was seated near the front and heard another passenger complain about the possible fuel stop. The attendant explained that the A320 on rare occasions may need to make an extra fuel stop on this route when there are strong head winds and a full flight. The passenger kept complaining. I told the passenger next to me that I would be happy to stop for fuel is the pilot thinks we need to. After all, what are the options? The pilot also made a few announcements with updates on our progress. Some of the delay in departure was made up on the ground since there were so many canceled flights we were able to go right to the front of the line for take off. Fortunately, we did not need to stop for fuel and landed about 15 minutes late. Yesterday I received the following unsolicited email from Jet Blue:
Thank you for flying with JetBlue Airways on flight # from New York's JFK on December 2, 2007. We regret that we were not able to operate your flight as scheduled because of the fuel stop in Salt Lake City. We sincerely apologize for your late arrival and the inconvenience the situation may have caused you. As always, the safety of our customers is our first consideration.
As part of our commitment to you and consistent with our Customer Bill of Rights, we have issued you a $25 JetBlue electronic Voucher. When you are ready to use your Voucher, please call 1-800-JETBLUE (538-2583) with your confirmation number for this flight. The Voucher is for you and is non-transferable. JetBlue Vouchers are valid for one year and can be applied towards JetBlue Airways reservations or to the airfare portion of a JetBlue Getaways vacation package. Please visit our website's Help section for more information on how to use your Voucher.
We thank you for choosing to fly with JetBlue Airways and hope you will continue to look to us for your travel needs. We look forward to welcoming you onboard with us again soon.
Sincerely,
JetBlue Airways
Isn’t that impressive? I’ll have to call and mention the flight didn’t actually make the fuel stop. My guess is they will still want to honor the voucher.
Someone stated, “At the same time, the passenger started off implying that his daughter was stuck overnight when she was not.â€
Please reread my posts. My original post had no mention of overnight. My second post stated she technically arrived the next day with dates and times. To say I am implying she was stuck overnight is taking my statement out of context.
WCT posted, “You just hit the nail on the head. As many different airlines you are flying in the future explains you are just looking for the "GOOD" deal! IF you were actually a loyal US flyer, or other airline, which you might be, I would, yes have sympathy for you. I am sure if one little thing goes wrong on any of those other carriers, you will complain too, and the story goes on and on. Whatever happened to appreciation, and happy the airline is actually safe to travel???? Have we forgotten all the things that have been sacrificed to make us safer, and lost wages, pensions, etc. Think about it!
All airlines should operate safely or they should not be in business. Jimntx offers several good points. Since my daughter will be traveling in and out of the NE quite a bit over the next four years, I enrolled all of us in the US Airways FF program with intentions that we would fly US quite a bit. After two bad experiences she asked if we could not use US again. I do try to stay with as few airlines as possible to earn rewards. The trip I just took on Jet Blue only cost me $10.00 since I had earned a “free†round trip. However, factors such as routes, schedule and PRICE do come into play. I could have used a reward my wife earned for her to travel from LAX to JFK in January, but since the group she is traveling with from there is booked on American, I paid for a flight on American. This way they can treat it as a connecting flight and check the bags through to the final destination and she can connect in the same terminal. The convenience was worth the cost of the ticket. For someone to think a traveler should be loyal to a single airline is silly. Jet Blue is my favorite, but I can’t fly them everywhere.
Finally, US CREW posted, “I think that the intent of the OP was to vent and insult US Airways employees. He does not seem that interested in the cause of the delay; rather, just the compensation for the suffering and 'expensive' ticket. He has already made up his mind about US when he named the title of this thread, and has stated that he has made future travel plans on other carriers. So, best of luck with future flights, and I guess you won't be visiting this site much more since we're such a 'terrible airline'.â€
Did I want to vent? Yes. Insult US Airways Employees? Certainly not. Other than “Terrible Airlineâ€, please point out something in one of my posts that was an insult. We’ll see what my request for the cause of delay brings. But Customer Relations doesn’t seem to care. None of the three emails I received from them has any mention about the cause of delay the cause of delay. I would think they would point it out. Am I interested in just compensation? Yes and no. Mostly, I want US Airways to treat me a little more personally. However, if you’re going to charge me a huge premium for a product, you better step up give me what I paid for and any compensation should correlate to the ticket price. One email from Customer Relations states,†As a gesture of goodwill we do compensate based on the delay and inconvenience you experienced not on the ticket price.†With that logic, I could get the same compensation for a $150.00 ticket (or less). It doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s the way I was treated and the responses from Customer Relations that led to my venting.
Thanks again to everyone that posted. I am grateful for your opinions.
SS255
Veteran
A little sympathy and understanding goes a long way in gaining back some goodwill with the customer. Too bad this philosophy got lost in the transition from East's Consumer Affairs to West's Customer Relations.
It sort of reminds me of a conversation I had recently with one of my co-workers. He was having some personal problems, and he came into my office late one night and bent my ear for far longer than I was prepared to stay at work that night. After he unloaded his sorry tale to me, I told him I wished there was something I could do to make his situation better. His response was "All I needed was for you to listen." I don't think anybody at Customer Relations is listening.
JS
Veteran
Yeah right. If you bought a $150 ticket, and the flight was three hours late, and US gave you a voucher for $18.75, wouldn't you be even more angry and insulted?
I appreciatte your post. I apologize for my bluntness. I hope you have great travels in the future.
You never said if the person you spoke to was "in America". If they wern't you can blame part of the customer service level to the "just say no" people in Manila. I remember Doug telling me personally in front of a meeting that he intended to get rid of the outsourced people and ,"no one can take better care of our customers than our own employees" That was the first thing that went out the window. Okay I'm using "nice" language here. Second, you are right the East has much better customer service skills and longevity because they looked on their job as a profession. Not so on the West. Heck, half the time the "supervisor"==who are not really supervisors--have less than 3 years experience and have no idea how to talk to a customer to make them happy even if they can't do much. AND the voucher should not make you pay for making a reservation on the phone since you are "not allowed" to make it on the net. Check that one out and if they've changed that too===well, I'd call the liason office at Phoenix Sand Castle in Doug's office.
- Thread Starter
- #82
Good question. The reservations person and "supervisor" I initially spoke to both had an accent, but I did not ask where they are located. I have no idea who responded to the emails as they are signed US Airways Customer Relations. I'll have to call reservations to see if they will waive the fee for making a reservation on the phone with an electronic voucher.
Thanks.
Did I say he got no pension? (By the way, it took 10 years at Texaco to become vested. ERISA was changed to 5 year vesting effective Jan. 1, 1989. How do I know that specifically? Because the change in the law meant I got vested 2 months earlier than I would have before the change.
I would have reached 10 year vesting on Mar. 1 of that year.) You're grasping at straws to avoid the real points of my post. He (my friend, not the OP) was treated unfairly, but he got over it. And, he never tried to belittle people who bought a bad product from Texaco, or blame them for his predicament. If you are an airline employee, as I am, you were probably treated unfairly at some point after 9/11, as I was. But, that was over six years ago. That ship has sailed. If you can not live on what you make at your airline, it is time to move on to something that will support you in the style to which you are accustomed. And, your situation and what happened to the OP have nothing whatsoever to do with each other unless you are admitting that you think it is ok for the employees of LCC to vent their frustration and anger at their company on the customer. "I got screwed by this company; so, it's ok for you to get screwed by this company."
I repeat...that attitude will guarantee that the customer and his family and probably his friends will NEVER become loyal customers of LCC. The damage wrought by a bad customer service experience is rarely confined to just the actual customer. So what if he was looking for the cheapest fare. Everyone does it today, including you. Do you pay $10 for a package of underwear at some family-run store that your parents shopped at? Or, do you pay $5 for the exact same product at Wal-Mart?
The product we sell is transportation from Point A to Point B, but we are not really in the transportation business. We are in the customer service business. There are any number of ways that a single customer can get from Point A to Point B in this country--some more convenient than others; some more expensive than others--with multiple providers of that product. The real difference is the manner in which that product is provided.
The traveling public are not as dumb as some people on this board seem to think. They KNOW that SWA is not always the cheapest fare. What they do know is that SWA always has a reasonable fare even if booked at the last minute. AND, they know that the experience--the customer service part--will be pleasant and probably on time. And, they know that when it is not, SWA will try to make it right. Though I think my airline (AA) is pretty good at customer service, I do not think they are as good as SWA is.
No airline can survive on the philosophy of "well, we'll get them back on the times we have the cheapest fare." That pool of customers will disappear eventually. There is a point at which getting the lowest price is not worth the hassle it takes to get what you paid for. A recent experience I had with JC Penney's has caused me to put their credit card aside except for those times I want to buy jeans--I really like their house brand, Arizona. I will never again purchase anything else from them, and I wrote two letters to the Chairman of the Board at Penney's trying to resolve the issue. The best they could do is some woman who didn't even identify herself other than "from Customer Service" left me a voicemail about "how sorry they were that I had the experience I had and she hoped I would give Penney's another chance." Sorry, not good enough.
There is NO tkting fee for e vouchers. Any type of reservation that cannot be handled via the internet has no tkting fee. The tkting fee is when a customer has a CHOICE to book via the internet but simply chooses to have a rep handle the transaction. Just make sure the rep double checks to make sure it has not been charged. Mama
US1YFARE
Veteran
- Mar 31, 2004
- 3,932
- 54
Yes, and it should be for obvious reasons. But, do you know how many "discussions" I've had with ticketing agents about not charging me because I am a US1 or if it involved a voucher and had no choice but to go to the airport to get ticketed??? Too many. Sometimes the discussions got heated. So, it would not surprise me if someone said that an agent tried to charge them.
Oh, and just so no one says I'm "hateful and hurtful" only towards US, I had an issue with an AA agent who wanted to charge me a fee on a fully refundable fare and I said, I think I don't get charged and she responded abruptly, "Yes you do." I said, I know the charges and fare codes are so complicated, it's hard to keep the rules straight. She said, "I don't have a problem figuring out." I said, well, i think you are wrong so call the rate desk. She did, she was wrong, and she didn't apologize.
This goes directly back to our lack of training dept. Put it in a memo, throw it on the break table and call it a day, we're done, now you know everything. Almost a year after cutover there are still agents that dont have a clue on how to do some of the most basic entries. Where is the followup training for them? Most are so confused because the system doesnt work half the time that they just figure they'll do what it takes to move the line and if someone gets a free flight out of it good for them. Believe me, its happening out there as we speak. Can anyone tell if the policies in the DRS are correct? I cant find half the stuff I try and many of the things I do find still say AMERICA WEST (Be sure to send a QIKFIX so someone can do their job and correct the error). Until the company gets serious about training agents to be able to do more than basic checkin (and just have a couple that can take care of the "serious issues"), you'll continue to see this type of stuff happen. Oh, and a functioning computer system would be a help as well.
InternationalShannon
Veteran
okay, i have to quit reading this thread I'm laughing too hard. Either that or it's all the starbucks.
I love you.
I love you.
- Thread Starter
- #89
For those that are interested, I finally received an answer regarding the cause of delay. After not hearing back for a couple days, I call the refunds department back and asked for the woman that I spoke to last. She was at lunch and called me back when she returned. Apparently she had some issues with making an outbound call and she said she was calling me from her cell phone.
The delay was due to a mechanical problem. I asked what kind of mechanical problem, but she told me that they never get the specific information as it can "freak out" some people, which is understandable.
She is a very nice lady. That even started giving me suggestions for dealing with customer relations.
The delay was due to a mechanical problem. I asked what kind of mechanical problem, but she told me that they never get the specific information as it can "freak out" some people, which is understandable.
She is a very nice lady. That even started giving me suggestions for dealing with customer relations.
N965VJ
Veteran
You must’ve been outside of Area Code 480.
Long distance calls are expensive, you know, and Tempe hates to spend money.
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