Thank You To Whom Ever Made This Merger Possible
- Thread starter Ramp Rogue
- Start date
- Status
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2003
- Messages
- 787
- Reaction score
- 0
SKY HIGH said:
Corinth2103
Member
I keep reading on here where many senior U f/a's are retiring or taking an early out and that should obviously help both work groups at each respective airline. Playing devil's advocate, isn't there a chance that said f/a's may not be in such a hurry to get out now as maybe they were a few weeks ago? They could stay around a lot longer just to see how all of this plays out so any instant seniority gains could be moot for now. Is that even a possibility in the whole scheme of things??
Tim
Tim
firstamendment
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2003
- Messages
- 1,348
- Reaction score
- 0
500 f/a'scommitted to leave...there is NO turning back. %00 are taking early retirement...Buh Bye.
Ramp Rogue said:
Dear Ramp Rogue
Here is a a Joint Statement of Labor Principles.....from both Doug Parker and Bruce Lakefield. Might help how you feel.
JOINT STATEMENT OF LABOR PRINCIPLES
The management teams at both US Airways and America West Airlines recognize the anxiety and uncertainty created among our valued employees since news of a potential merger surfaced in April, and we sincerely regret that legal constraints prevented us from providing you with more details about our discussions. Now that we have announced our planned merger, we can assure you that we have heard your requests to be kept informed and we will be as open as possible as this transaction progresses.
The leading question is the obvious one: what will happen to my job if America West is ultimately merged into US Airways? We’ll try to give you our best answer, but please keep in mind that it will take a long time to complete an operational integration and, as we’ve already seen, there’s always the potential for unexpected changes in our industry.
Even once we begin the process of integrating our operations, it’s still hard to say what will happen to anyone’s particular job. For employees in work groups not represented by a collective bargaining agent at either airline, our management teams will be fair to employees at both carriers. Every employee is entitled to be evaluated individually, and there is no presumption that employees of one airline will be favored over the other.
For employees in work groups represented by unions, the question of what will happen to your jobs is even harder for us to answer because so much of what will happen is outside management’s control. Our labor contracts contain different provisions governing how seniority lists will be integrated, and depending on your specific contract, provide for integration in accordance with a particular union’s merger policy or certain “Allegheny Mohawk†seniority integration provisions. We will honor those contractual commitments, and the ultimate outcome of seniority integration will be determined by your collective bargaining representatives as dictated by your contracts.
Although the seniority integration process will be handled by your union representatives, we have every expectation that our unions will honor certain obviously fair and equitable protocols as they implement their merger policies or Allegheny Mohawk provisions. Specifically, we would expect that no employee who already had been furloughed prior to the merger would be permitted to bump an active employee out of a job. Likewise, we expect our unions will recognize a solution that simply “staples†all employees of one airline to the bottom of the other’s seniority list as unacceptable and unconscionable. To that end, because of seniority differences in some groups, straight seniority integration could have an effect similar to that of stapling employees to the bottom of a seniority list, an outcome that is inconsistent with a fair and equitable protocol. Therefore, some type of proportional integration would seem reasonable. Given our experience working with your union representatives, we do not anticipate they would advocate an integrated seniority list that violates the basic tenets of fairness and equity, and we encourage them to help ease any uncertainty among their members as soon as possible by confirming their intention to work toward seniority integration using these basic principles.
Lastly, although it is extremely important to go through the proper process of integrating seniority lists, dragging seniority integration out for an unnecessarily long period of time is not in anyone’s best interest. It is distracting to employees, and to customers who contemplate flying with the new US Airways. A thoughtful, deliberate but timely resolution will help everyone move forward with greater certainty, even if expectations are not always met.
We will provide updates about the proposed merger as soon as we can, while continuing to be honest about what we can’t predict. We truly believe this proposed merger is in the best interests of employees at both airlines, and we will work hard to provide you with information as we move towards a combined airline that has a great future ahead.
Sincerely,
Doug Parker
Bruce R. Lakefield
justaumechanic
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2003
- Messages
- 578
- Reaction score
- 0
You are a classic US Airways employee..
Welcome aboard.. Welcome aboard what? They are buying you!!
The only fair way is to staple you to the bottom of their list..
You are a prime example of what AWA can expect.. U employee's feelings of entitlement....
You are entitled to your last paycheck, umeployment and your severance. Thats all you are entitled to.. If U goes Chapter 7 you dont even get the severance.
Face it.. They should be the ones saying "Welcome aboard, sit in the back, no room at the front"..
Welcome aboard.. Welcome aboard what? They are buying you!!
The only fair way is to staple you to the bottom of their list..
You are a prime example of what AWA can expect.. U employee's feelings of entitlement....
You are entitled to your last paycheck, umeployment and your severance. Thats all you are entitled to.. If U goes Chapter 7 you dont even get the severance.
Face it.. They should be the ones saying "Welcome aboard, sit in the back, no room at the front"..
Ramp Rogue said:
Question about the "...labor principles..." from Parker/Lakefield. Does management really have any say over how union seniority between HP/US play out? Or will it all come down to federal mediation?
Its hot in the desert,
DesertRat
Its hot in the desert,
DesertRat
eolesen
Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2003
- Messages
- 15,959
- Reaction score
- 9,375
DesertRat said:
It doesn't even come down to mediation. The unions control this 100%. Parker and Lakefield can give their opinion, but it all boils down to what the unions decide.
Because of the NMB policy, US's unions and their contracts are going to be the surviving entity. That means that the IAM, ALPA, AFA, and CWA ultimately determine what happens.
Sure, they'll negotiate with the IBT and TWU (no word about the agents, since they're non-union at HP). But they're outnumbering AWA about three to one. You can figure out how that will work out in the end...
Yep, 500 gone (all with 1960 to 1986 seniority) by Dec. 2nd. And another 400(give or take a few )that are retiring by year end. If they do another VFLR alot more will leave. Over 400 that wanted it did not get it.
So, cheer up, there are more people from 1983 seniority until present than there are senior ones.
So, cheer up, there are more people from 1983 seniority until present than there are senior ones.
Travelpro72
Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 4,964
- Reaction score
- 455
AGAIN...... If either carrier does not feel that DOH is fair and appropriate, why did they accept a contract that has that stipulation in it? HP is NOT buying US nor is US buying HP. Wheeeeere does this come from? uggggh. I think its funny that most that speak up on HP's employees behalf are from AA.... AA is the LAST company I would look for guidance as how to feel about a merger. Even there though, it was not the individual employee that was responsible for that AA/TWA screw job. DOH is in writing, black and white agreed by both employee groups. Read carefully what it says. All of the sudden it's not ok? Does anyone think that they are going to just throw that out the window and staple. It would never be allowed and both mgmt sides know that the whole thing would fail if they tried to do such a thing. No DOH....WRONGOOOOO ! ! ! !
eolesen
Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2003
- Messages
- 15,959
- Reaction score
- 9,375
Travelpro72 said:
Because it's in the international's bylaws. HP's AFA MEC didn't have the lattitude to wipe out that language from their contract.
And, for the record, AFA's bylaws are the only place where DOH is specified. Integration will have to be negotiated with all the other workgroups, including ALPA.
Travelpro72 said:
Uh, just about every credible article on this merger has HP being the acquirer. It's HP's management team that brought in the investment dollars, not US's. The fact that they're setting up a holding company to take over both companies is a technicality more than anything -- my guess is that there will be a gradual integration of employees and assets from US over to HP, and when all that's done, US as a corporate entity will be liquidated, and there will be no emergence from bankruptcy.
Travelpro72 said:
That's because we've been thru it, and seen how nasty of a process it can be. There's no one solution which protects everyone's interests. DOH sounds great if you're at the top of the list. But it's not so great when you find yourself being furloughed after 15 years of service, while someone who spent 19 of their 20 years working for a competitor gets your job.
Former ModerAAtor,
You work for AA not U, so maybe you do not have a say in any of this. I do not think that AA is even AFA(not sure). I have a friend that works for AA and I love her to death but I have heard the meanness in her and she has told me terrible mean stories of how AA treated the TWA F/A's. Just to let all know at AWA ...USAIRWAYS F/A's are not like AA. We are fair because seniority is everything..but we want this all to work out as well as you do. We are all excited and hope that AFA can figure something out fair. There will only be MAYBE(do not quote me) 800 to 1000 F/A's that will fall senior to 1983 by year end. Maybe someone need to find that out for sure.
AWA F/A's need not get upset over this and please stop listening to AA people. !!!!!
You work for AA not U, so maybe you do not have a say in any of this. I do not think that AA is even AFA(not sure). I have a friend that works for AA and I love her to death but I have heard the meanness in her and she has told me terrible mean stories of how AA treated the TWA F/A's. Just to let all know at AWA ...USAIRWAYS F/A's are not like AA. We are fair because seniority is everything..but we want this all to work out as well as you do. We are all excited and hope that AFA can figure something out fair. There will only be MAYBE(do not quote me) 800 to 1000 F/A's that will fall senior to 1983 by year end. Maybe someone need to find that out for sure.
AWA F/A's need not get upset over this and please stop listening to AA people. !!!!!
phasersonstun2
Veteran
- Joined
- May 1, 2003
- Messages
- 560
- Reaction score
- 4
nycbusdriver said:
He's right. I'm from U, and after the PI arbitration ruling we managed to come together and move on with our lives just fine. The pilot list WILL in all likelihood be decided through arbitration, with a combination of DOH, ratio and fences with a drop dead based on expansion. ALso, any young HP pilots (under 35) will have a great career. By the year 2015, about 1200-1600 pilots will be retired from the U system alone.
firstamendment
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2003
- Messages
- 1,348
- Reaction score
- 0
Former ModerAAtor said:
And we at US Airways have been thru it, too....THREE TIMES!! US gave both PSA and Piedmunt their DOH, as well as the Trump Shuttle f/a's their Trump AND Eastern DOH. Anything less than that here would be unacceptable. We have the protections and the AFA backs it up.
You go on back to AA and staple your heart into believing you are right. Your employees think they are right and we think we are right. It's called philosophical difference.
Could we here from a few AWA people of what THEY think instead of the constant dribble from the AA people on the AWA/US boards?
- Status
