Would DOH Work For You?
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Page 11 is nothing but pure speculation by speculators who wanted this deal to go through at any cost. AMR has always benefitted by other's weaknesses hence the Frankenstein airline of today. Crandall a great manager and a poor mans version of Icahn , meets Carl who wanted to rule ruthlessly and unilaterally and systematically turn TWA into his own cash cow. The London route are sold to AMR and it's all downhill for TWA afterwards. So yes TWA was going to be liquidated eventually, and yes whatever We received as seniority was acceptable. Going forward AAers must also accept their fate in the seniority " circle of life". Be strong and wear your POW uniforms proudly.
Hopeful
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Remember, both the IAM and TWU went to binding arbitration, hence the Kasher ruling.
The bigger argument was the way the pilots, f/a and agents went about there integration. Hence the stapling.
Be careful what you wish for hoping the AAers finally get "theirs."
Who is to say that a potential arbitrator in a potential US/AA seniority case does not use the Kasher ruling as "past precedent." Because of AA's size in all aspects compared to US, they could get 25% or whatever.
I am not here to revive the TWA/AA seniority issues, but just remember KASHER ruled on the TWU/IAM issue.
I can't speak for the other work groups.
MCI transplant
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CMH----- From someone who's lived through it, there was more to this story than what was stated here, but at this point in time, what's the point? Let's just hope that what goes arround, doesn't come arround!------This time!!! And I mean that!
My personal opinion on this (I'm a 22 yr. AA Mech.) is DOH is the only fair way to integrate anything.I was not a popular guy in the breakroom during the TWA merger.I believe that when 2 companies come together ALL employees should be credited for their time served.Every night I see a 40 year TWA guy at age 70 or so drag his butt into hangar night shift with 2001 seniority.That is just so wrong.And it could be us.
Wake up, TWA had the Allegheny-Mohawk, didn't help did it!!
I think there a law now that came from missouri that you must be slot in .
Hopeful
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Then when AA started hiring older 30-40 year seniority people from PanAM and Eastern, maybe they should have been given their mid -1960s seniority as well.
In a MERGER scenario, yes......DOH..
PURCHASE of another carrier or assets......let an arbitrator decide!
The LPPs of Allehgheny-Mohawk were used and abided by with respect to the IAM and TWU seniority issue.
Fair or unfair, an arbitrator decided it. The TWU has it still in its contracts that Allegheny-Mohawk will be the method should a merger occur.
MCI transplant
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Oh, I feel, "if" there is a merger, and that's still a big "if", The IAM will give you DOH.---- But franly, you don't deserve it!!
Hey MCI, I'm retired now but I wish I could see the faces of some of those Tough AA guys and gals now.
A lot of soiled underwear in the locker room, the cockpit, and strolling down the aisle on those " silver birds" these days I'm sure..
MCI transplant
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- Jun 4, 2003
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So you're retired. Welcome to the club! ----- I've been retired for almost four years now, and haven't missed a meal yet! And frankly, I'm glad I'm on the outside, looking in on this one!------ We've been there, done that, and it ain't no fun!
Actually, TW was not in BK when AA agreed to buy it.
The BK was a condition of, not a precursor to, the Asset Purchanse Agreement.
The Asset Purchase agreement was executed before teh BK was filed.
The BK did allow AA to cherry pick which assets of TW it would take, and ot get rid of Icahn and Karibu.
Relative to size, TW was in no worse shape then than AA is now... yes, even with the $5 billion. Like AA, it was not big enough to compete with the legacy global carriers with strong networks, and simultaneously not small or unique enough to have a "niche" of its own.
You trot that out every time.
Your use of that paragraph is a false proof, and exhibits faulty reasoning
That was testimony given long after the deal was inked, BK filed, DIP financing provided/accepted, schedule changes made, large notes paid off early and/or not renogiated, and a host of other things.
It was probably true at the time it was given...
That does not in any way make it true that TW would have liquidated if AA had never made the offer...
Two different discussions, entirely.
But, then, maybe you actually know that, and just think you can snow the lurkers...
Ifly2: It was probably true at the time it was given...
That does not in any way make it true that TW would have liquidated if AA had never made the offer...
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That's an interesting take, it was true but not true.
Yeah, I'm sure TW would be a bustling, successful airline right now if AA didn't buy them. NOT
I remember the stories of airlines wanting just certain pieces of TW, not the whole thing and they wanted none of the employees, hence, the deal with AA was born.
It is a FACT, no other airline wanted all of it, you can keep trying to rewrite history , or you can just read it.
From pg 10: TWA filed
a good faith bankruptcy petition. Pursuant to a court approved
bidding procedure, TWA determined that American's offer is the
highest and best, and in fact, the only available offer for the
purchase of substantially all of TWA's assets.
That does not in any way make it true that TW would have liquidated if AA had never made the offer...
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That's an interesting take, it was true but not true.
Yeah, I'm sure TW would be a bustling, successful airline right now if AA didn't buy them. NOT
I remember the stories of airlines wanting just certain pieces of TW, not the whole thing and they wanted none of the employees, hence, the deal with AA was born.
It is a FACT, no other airline wanted all of it, you can keep trying to rewrite history , or you can just read it.
From pg 10: TWA filed
a good faith bankruptcy petition. Pursuant to a court approved
bidding procedure, TWA determined that American's offer is the
highest and best, and in fact, the only available offer for the
purchase of substantially all of TWA's assets.
"That's an interesting take, it was true but not true"
I didn't say that
" TW would be a bustling, successful airline right now if AA didn't buy them"
I didn't say that either... though it may have been. We'll never know, will we?
Comprehension, my man... and understanding... try it once
There was a deal in the works... yes
Was it necessary for AA... not, not in hindsight
Would TWA have liquidated in Jan 2001 without any involvement of AA? There is nothing that indicates it would have.
Later? Any answer is pure speculation. We will never really know.
We do know that other not so well off airlines did survive 9/11, etc... and that the airlines hardest hit were teh former giants running high cost high yield operations.
Was it good for both?
I didn't say that
" TW would be a bustling, successful airline right now if AA didn't buy them"
I didn't say that either... though it may have been. We'll never know, will we?
Comprehension, my man... and understanding... try it once
There was a deal in the works... yes
Was it necessary for AA... not, not in hindsight
Would TWA have liquidated in Jan 2001 without any involvement of AA? There is nothing that indicates it would have.
Later? Any answer is pure speculation. We will never really know.
We do know that other not so well off airlines did survive 9/11, etc... and that the airlines hardest hit were teh former giants running high cost high yield operations.
Was it good for both?
