The Anti Union union

AWA320

Veteran
May 6, 2007
1,522
508
Western hemisphere
My Opinion


US Airline Pilots Association -- Labor Breaking An Agreement With Itself


Today’s greatest threat to organized labor is not management, but one of labor’s own threats to itself, the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA). USAPA hopes to set a precedent in labor history as a union that arbitrarily chooses which binding agreements it will honor, regardless if such agreements were made with management, or its own members. If left unchecked, USAPA could jeopardize the integrity of any future arbitrated decisions (no matter with whom they are made), and create a divisional tactic within labor’s bargaining process where it will not be management, but the union who whipsaws labor against itself. Sadly, USAPA, who represents the pilots of US Airways, was created specifically to abrogate agreements, and intimidate its minority members into submission. Within such a union, there can be no unity, only tyranny. USAPA is a threat to the health of organized labor.

Before the creation of USAPA, a previous bargaining agent represented the pilots of US Airways. When a dispute arose between a majority and minority group of these pilots, both groups agreed to their then-bargaining agent’s policy of settling the dispute by use of an arbitrator. In a twist of irony, the majority had years ago co-authored the bargaining agent’s policy of using arbitration to settle such a dispute, yet it was only after the arbitrator rendered his decision that the majority complained of their own policy being “flawed.”

Only after they thought the arbitrator’s decision was unfair, and their own policy flawed did the majority attempt to renege on their binding agreement with the minority. When the previous bargaining agent overseeing the process insisted the majority honor its agreement, the majority sought another way to break its agreement. With greater-numbers of 2-to-1 being its only advantage, the majority called for a representational election, and easily voted-in USAPA in April 2008. The minority group was conscripted into USAPA, therefore denying them the oversight protections of their previous bargaining agent. Without any minority input, USAPA, operated only by the majority, drafted a constitution and by-laws that advantaged the majority at the expense of the minority. USAPA wrote its own solution to the previous dispute, a “proposal” that – if implemented – secured jobs for the minority, but had the potential to put out of work roughly 80% of the minority Phoenix-based US Airways pilots. Yessir, USAPA was a union born of the majority, by the majority, for the majority, and to heck with the minority who keeps its word.

USAPA’s secret agenda – as evidenced by a smoking-gun letter later submitted in a federal courtroom - was to abrogate the agreement the majority made with the minority. By voting-in USAPA, the majority pretended to feel justified in reneging because (get this) it was the previous bargaining agent, not USAPA, who facilitated their binding arbitration agreement with the minority. Yet USAPA still wanted to benefit from agreements made between the majority and others, even though the previous bargaining agent too, had facilitated those agreements. On one hand, the majority theorized they should no longer be held to previous agreements because they had changed their bargaining agent, yet on the other hand, the majority felt they should be entitled to the favorable results of other agreements despite the fact that they had changed their bargaining agent. In this way, USAPA hoped to live the best of two worlds by picking and choosing which agreements it would honor, depending on if the agreement was favorable, or unfavorable to the majority. Meantime, USAPA ignored the voices of its minority pilots… except when the minority spoke against USAPA.

Minority pilots who dared to opine unfavorable of USAPA were dealt with swiftly and seriously. Within its first two months, USAPA used it legal firm (Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP) to bring charges of RICO (usually reserved for mobsters or other organized crime) against 18 of its minority pilots. USAPA made a public display of the 18, hoping to squelch any further dissention by taking the defendants to court not once, but twice. In both instances the case against the 18 defendants were dismissed with prejudice, yet to this day USAPA refuses to drop the charges against these 18 pilots whose only “offense” was to speak out against USAPA. Perhaps as a result of this message I will become RICO defendant number 19.

With USAPA’s failure to acknowledge its agreement with the minority, the minority was left with no other choice but to pool together its resources and bring forth a federal case against USAPA alleging its violation of duty of fair representation (DFR). In its defense, USAPA called as star witnesses majority Captain Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger, and First Officer Jeffrey Skiles, of the infamous Hudson River ditching of US Airways flight #1549. Prostituted by USAPA leadership, Sully and Skiles were coaxed into traded in their integrity for fifteen minutes of courtroom fame. Even though they knew a binding agreement – a promise - was being broken with their minority peers, both Sully and Skiles testified of their staunch support for USAPA, and its agenda. The jury was not impressed with USAPA, Sully or Skiles, else it might have deliberated more than four hours before finding USAPA in violation of DFR. Unfortunately, a federal court of appeals later agreed with USAPA that the claim for DFR was not yet ripe. The minority case against USAPA was dismissed, but not before the court of appeals warned USAPA that it would be found “…under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit” if USAPA continued to ignore its agreement with the minority. Oddly enough, USAPA never referenced in any of its legal updates to US Airways pilots the critical part of an “…unquestionably ripe DFR suit.” Responsible for censoring such critical information are majority pilots USAPA President Mike Cleary, Vice-Chairman Randy Mowrey, and Communications Chairman Scott Theuer. (Theuer, who was called by USAPA as a witness, urged the court to pronounce his last name like "sewer", except with a lisp). One aviation publication has dubbed this trio as recipients of its monthly “Real Men of Genius.”

Today, the majority and minority pilots are locked in a virtual stalemate. The majority USAPA is afraid to make a move that would make unquestionably ripe the case of DFR, and the minority is held hostage because they don’t have the votes to recall or otherwise re-direct USAPA leadership.

Other unions be warned, USAPA is a parasitic virus that hopes to disguise itself amongst those unions who are honorable and healthy. However, USAPA hopes actually to destroy these other unions by infecting the process of future arbitrations, or any other agreements that a majority can decide will feed only itself, if even at the expense of starving the minority.

Written by an America West pilot
 
That is a very thorough summary of the history that has led the east and west US Airways pilots to where they are today. Thanks for taking the time.
 
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  • #3
That is a very thorough summary of the history that has led the east and west US Airways pilots to where they are today. Thanks for taking the time.

Pass along to your fellow UAL pilots to watch this place and do not what USAir EAST has done. Honor your agreement no matter how unpleasent they may appear. There is nothing more unpleasent than people that go back on their word.

AWA320
 
The West pilots have been given more than they could ever have obtained without the merger. They have the opportunity to fly bigger planes that the West does not have. The East pilots decided to share their profit sharing with the West pilots. The East pilots have even offered the West there to be fences for protection. There are many more things that could be listed that the East as offered the West.
This is a seniority based system!!!!! Never in a seniority based system should someone who only has 6 months under their belt ever be given greater (much greater) seniority than someone who has been here 20 years. What a joke. As far as a huge union you are screwed with that one too.....all a large union wants and cares about is money... so they want numbers in their membership..... they do not care anything about their members. Westies need to grow up and get a life and maybe the pilots could then get a contract and everyone would be better off for it. All the West pilots think about is their winey selves. :rolleyes:
 
The West pilots have been given more than they could ever have obtained without the merger. They have the opportunity to fly bigger planes that the West does not have. The East pilots decided to share their profit sharing with the West pilots. The East pilots have even offered the West there to be fences for protection. There are many more things that could be listed that the East as offered the West.
This is a seniority based system!!!!! Never in a seniority based system should someone who only has 6 months under their belt ever be given greater (much greater) seniority than someone who has been here 20 years. What a joke. As far as a huge union you are screwed with that one too.....all a large union wants and cares about is money... so they want numbers in their membership..... they do not care anything about their members. Westies need to grow up and get a life and maybe the pilots could then get a contract and everyone would be better off for it. All the West pilots think about is their winey selves. :rolleyes:
Absolutely correct.
Before you read AWA320's post, click on this link. It will make the text easier to understand:

The West Pilot's theme music

ALPA has RUINED the airline industry.
 
Date of hire the only way to go with a merger, some win some lose!! The only really fair way to go!! Really do not care what an arbitrator thinks. For those on the West.....if U would hook up with Jet Blue, do you still agree with the 1 for 1 slot on the senority list?

I am represented by the IAM and believe me I disagree with their thinking a majority of the time , but the way they approached the merger and combining the two lists was the only fair way to go about business.
 
Silly little boy. We are the Anti anti union union. You are simply too busy piddling all over everything to think Clearly.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Why does an unsigned Wikipedia rant deserve its own thread? I have seen this elsewhere, and it has a name on it. It is posted on Usapawatch with the name XXXXXXXXXXX attached, who apparently is a member of some army, but thinks he is "conscripted" in yet another.

Did you get his permission to post it here?

RR
 
Westies need to grow up and get a life and maybe the pilots could then get a contract and everyone would be better off for it. All the West pilots think about is their winey selves. :rolleyes:

Hey, how about I make up a bunch of BS that never happened and proclaim it happened also, then uninformed posters such as this can comment without knowing what they are talking about.
 
Absolutely correct.
Before you read AWA320's post, click on this link. It will make the text easier to understand:

The West Pilot's theme music

ALPA has RUINED the airline industry.

Repeating
1) ALPA TOOK MY PENSION
2) ALPA SAID I WOULD GET DATE OF HIRE
3) ALPA MADE ME TAKE AND KEEP A SUBSTANDARD WAGE
4) IT'S ALPA'S FAULT.....

just isn't cutting oldie. Your US Air MEC did all of the things that you accuse ALPA of. The TWO of the last THREE changes in the ALPA merger / pilot seniority was at the hands of (you guessed it!), the US Air ALPA group.

Keep clicking your heals and say "There's no place like USAPA, There's no place like USAPA".....it still won't change the FACT that you can not change or overturn a final and binding arbitration award that is both thoughtful and fair (just because YOU don't think it's fair...does not make it so).

Is it really OK to renege on what your group agreed to? Is it really OK to sue pilots in your union (twice, AND FAIL...can I use the term "LOSER" here?) on RICO charges, just to try and scare them into submission? Is it really OK to balk at completing a grievance process (and accuse a single pilot of the other group) when in fact the grievance people actually had all the information they needed to finish the process (and thereby screw the West LTD pilots)? Is is really OK scream at the top of your lungs......You don't deserve profit sharing, because we are paid less (even though you could achieve pay parity with a new contract ....as Doug has said)? Are you really such an angry FO that you had to find a picture of Pennywistle the Clown to try a frighten us off?

Not frightened. Not angry. Not going away. NOT UNDERFUNDED. Got a life. Plenty grown-up. Not JUNIOR & not that young. It's not personal, it's just business.
 
Repeating
...Not frightened. Not angry. Not going away. NOT UNDERFUNDED. Got a life. Plenty grown-up. Not JUNIOR & not that young. It's not personal, it's just business.
Then lets see who prevails here, shall we? All the crap about the company accepting the Nic, the TA process being complete, etc is just that, CRAP.

It ain't gonna happen.

And, the music and pic were VERY appropriate.
 
Arbitration Legal Definition (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Mediation-Arbitration)

Arbitration

Arbitration more closely resembles traditional litigation in that a neutral third party hears the disputants' arguments and imposes a final and binding decision that is enforceable by the courts. The difference is that in arbitration, the disputants generally agreed to the procedure before the dispute arose; the disputants mutually decide who will hear their case; and the proceedings are typically less formal than in a court of law. One extremely important difference is that, unlike court decisions, arbitration offers almost no effective appeal process. Thus, when an arbitration decision is issued, the case is ended.

Final and binding arbitration has long been used in labor-management disputes. For decades, unions and employers have found it mutually advantageous to have a knowledgeable arbitrator—whom they have chosen—resolve their disputes in this cheaper and faster fashion. One primary advantage for both sides has been that taking disputes to arbitration has kept everyone working by providing an alternative to strikes and lockouts and has kept everyone out of the courts. Given this very successful track record, the commercial world has become enthusiastic about arbitration for other types of disputes as well.
 
Arbitration Legal Definition (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Mediation-Arbitration)

Arbitration

Arbitration more closely resembles traditional litigation in that a neutral third party hears the disputants' arguments and imposes a final and binding decision that is enforceable by the courts. The difference is that in arbitration, the disputants generally agreed to the procedure before the dispute arose; the disputants mutually decide who will hear their case; and the proceedings are typically less formal than in a court of law. One extremely important difference is that, unlike court decisions, arbitration offers almost no effective appeal process. Thus, when an arbitration decision is issued, the case is ended.

Final and binding arbitration has long been used in labor-management disputes. For decades, unions and employers have found it mutually advantageous to have a knowledgeable arbitrator—whom they have chosen—resolve their disputes in this cheaper and faster fashion. One primary advantage for both sides has been that taking disputes to arbitration has kept everyone working by providing an alternative to strikes and lockouts and has kept everyone out of the courts. Given this very successful track record, the commercial world has become enthusiastic about arbitration for other types of disputes as well.
You quoted an old article. Presently, the movement is AWAY from arbitration. It is seen as being not fair.

Here, read the findings in the HR.1020, The Arbitration Fairness Act of 2009. It will clear it up for you.

My link
 
You quoted an old article. Presently, the movement is AWAY from arbitration. It is seen as being not fair.

Here, read the findings in the HR.1020, The Arbitration Fairness Act of 2009. It will clear it up for you.

My link

It's nice that you think this applies to our little situation (much like you think the Nicolau Award is not fair). As such, you may have missed this part:

This Act, and the amendments made by this Act, shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act and shall apply with respect to any dispute or claim that arises on or after such date.
 

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