The LOW CLASS in LCC Strikes Again

[tahitigirl]

I worked PHL-florida this past week and yes we had the $3 snack in coach. It had cookies, crackers, and dry fruit. If we are offering snacks in coach then yes there should be a snack in first, even if it's just a salad or sandwich. I would think by selling in coach it would offset the cost of a first class snack. We sold all 10 of the snacks provided and could have sold more. How much does it cost to give the people who fly with so often something to eat on a 2+ hour flight?

 

[dukeman]

I worked PHL-florida this past week and yes we had the $3 snack in coach. It had cookies, crackers, and dry fruit.

What route? I flew PHL-PBI and PBI-PHL this past weekend. Snack basket in F on the way down. Exit Row on the return as the upgrade didn't clear and only pretzels offered in Y. And just as an aside F was full of paid and mileage upgrades. The highest status pax was a US4 (Silver). There were a bunch of US5's and 4 people with no DM number at all.

 

[tahitigirl]

What route? I flew PHL-PBI and PBI-PHL this past weekend. Snack basket in F on the way down. Exit Row on the return as the upgrade didn't clear and only pretzels offered in Y. And just as an aside F was full of paid and mileage upgrades. The highest status pax was a US4 (Silver). There were a bunch of US5's and 4 people with no DM number at all.

PHL-MCO blk time 0242 and MCO-PHL blk time 0200.

 

[Henderfuzz]

Im sorry but most of you have this all wrong.
Its about time we get a new sorce of revenue. Most of the first class pax are upgrades anymore. As far as the florida routes they are some of the cheapest fares we have.
Im tired of hearing pax complain about this and that and than demand we give them a free meal.
Lets not foget this is suppose to be a profit based bussiness.
The old days of giving away the store are gone.
The pax were the ones who demanded lower fares.

 

[tahitigirl]

Im sorry but most of you have this all wrong.
Its about time we get a new sorce of revenue. Most of the first class pax are upgrades anymore. As far as the florida routes they are some of the cheapest fares we have.
Im tired of hearing pax complain about this and that and than demand we give them a free meal.
Lets not foget this is suppose to be a profit based bussiness.
The old days of giving away the store are gone.
The pax were the ones who demanded lower fares.

I do agree that we are here to make money, but the real money comes from the guys and gals that fly with us every week. Even if all of the folks in first are upgrades they have flown a lot on us to do so. We don't make our money from Mr. and Mrs. every day american who searches 6 months for the world's cheapest ticket.

 

[BoeingBoy]

After doing a little cyphering with the BTS data for the 1st half of this year - I even took my shoes off so I could use my toes to count - here's some comparitive data....

On the "low cost" side of the ledger, the West side is doing pretty well on food/beverage costs - only spending about 50% more than WN and the same as B6. The East side isn't doing so well in the "low cost" arena, spending 5X what WN spends and about 2.5X what B6 and West spend (I guess the Envoy service is relatively expensive or East FF's dring more booze ).

On the "full service" side, comparing to legacy carriers first, there's a fairly large difference. NW, DL, and CO spend between 4.5 and 5X what West spends on food/beverage per RPM, and spend almost 2X what East spends. UA & AA are in a class by themselves, spending nearly 6X what West spends and nearly 2.5X what East spends.

It could certainly be argued that the other legacy's extensive international operations add to their food/beverage bill relative to East & West, so how about the other "hybrid" non-legacies that don't have those extensive international ops - Spirit, Airtran, and Frontier? West spends less per RPM than any by a slight amount. East, on the other, spends more than those 3 - double the amount.

So I guess the question is, are we going to see the West definition of "full service" in the future? Or current East? Or true legacy standards?

Jim

 

[PHLfa88]

Speaking of Dopes, why not enlighten the folks here why we haven't been graced with your wit and wisdom for the last 120 day or so?
If my memory serves me correctly and I could be wrong, a "Y" fare (As in US1YFARE) is a REFUNDABLE full fare coach fare, so that would make him a VERY VERY high Yield customer.

Threatening your core customers is not exactly the smartest thing you could do.

So my question to you is "What would you do if you had him on your flight?" Take away his birthday? Very easy to threaten when you hide behind a screen name.

Where I come from that's call having an alligator mouth with a hummingbird arse.

Treat Him/Her Like All My Pax's....With Respect! Avove and Beyond! 😉

 

[hp_fa]

FWIW, when I left the company, nearly a year ago, the policy was that on any flight where BOB was offered there would be at least a plated FC snack for all FC passengers.

 

[US1YFARE]

So I guess the question is, are we going to see the West definition of "full service" in the future? Or current East? Or true legacy standards?

Jim

BB, again you have pulled some interesting stats. My question though is what are these numbers? Are they percentages or raw numbers. The reason I ask is because I would expect the East side to have more expensive food/catering costs for a couple reasons (1) Envoy which you pointed out; and (2) doesn't the East side have a greater number of longer flights with meal service (Carib, Central America, SAN, LAX, SFO, DFW, DEN, SEA, Europe). Many of the West side's longer flights are redeyes and late flights which likely do not have food service.

And, hey, maybe you are right about the booze hounds on the East side--perhaps those 1/2 mini serving FA's on the West are making a contribution to the bottom line. 😉

 

[BoeingBoy]

US1FARE,

What I posted are just multiples as expressed - 2X = 2 times (or double) the cost. It started with ATA's release of industry cost breakdowns for the industry as a whole in the 2nd quarter, as found HERE.

That shows that the "industry" (specified as "all major and national U.S. passenger airlines that have filed complete reports with DOT for the corresponding quarter") spend 0.19 cents on food/beverages per ASM (or 0.23 cents per RPM).

I just got to wondering how US stacked up against the other carriers since that's something ATA doesn't provide. So I got the same BTS data the ATA uses, except for individual carriers, and calculated what each carrier spent on food/beverages per RPM. Then I just calculated the multiples for West & East vs the other carriers.

I've already deleted the spreadsheet, so just from memory WN spends about 0.10 cents/RPM, B6 about 0.16 cents, West about 0.17 cents, US about 0.44 cents, AA & UA about 0.80 to 0.90 cents. Again, that compares to the industry average of 0.23 cents.

Jim

 

[US1YFARE]

I think you are correct about UA and AA expenses also. UA and AA serve meals on 2+hour flights in FC. PHL-MIA in FC gets you a hot meal. DEN-SAN UA gets you a meal service that is better than US's transcon FC product. UA offers 1st Class and Biz Class Internationally and they are competing with some Asian carriers that offer premier service in their C and F cabins. Also, the Australian flights are long with lots of food service. Lots and lots of those tickets are full fare tickets. I have never flown NW Internationally, so I don't know what their service is like...I do know that based on past experience with LCC, they will push minimum service to the limits if they do purchase NW. Apparently, based on rumors, Envoy service is on the downward slide which is not surprising. I hope it is not as bad as it was in the Fall, 2003.

Tempe acts like they have no idea that this stuff is going on. They never own up to anything. When you tell them something like this is happening they say, Oh, my, that's terrible. That shouldn't be happening. Meanwhile tons of flights are now showing BOB with no food in FC. Are they that out of touch?

 

[LCC_#1]

We are the new People Express. :jerry: :jerry: :jerry:

 

[US1YFARE]

I guess that means the carmel popcorn isn't coming back. 🙁

 

[Travelpro72]

I never knew the popcorn even made into the snack basket. Hmmm ya learn something new everyday. I would like to say that MANY, MANY of us including those that don't post on here do realize the importance of YOU our FF's. I am so sick and tired of saying, "Sorry" for BS that management knows they are the cause of. It has been said many times but I'll say it again, "If we are going to have FC then have FC". It is INSANE that the service is what it is. It's even MORE insane that some employees STILL make the comments they do on here when a FF complains about something we ALL know is total company BS. Again, many of us appreciate your business and thank you for sticking with us through the THICK and THICKER. I wonder how long this error created by some 20something A$$#@#$S sitting around a conference table will take to correct. 🙄

 

[Travelpro72]

I just don't understand what it's going to take to get the new management to get it. I also don't want to hear that the company is merging and things are changing. I don't like the idea of how they test the waters to see how low they can set the bar before it blows up in their faces. Cost savings is fine and running a lean operation should be goal but to charge what they do for these so called "new low fares" and to offer the service they do is nuts. I don't know how much longer some of you FF's can hang in there. Tempe wants to get to know the FF's a bit better? What the hell does that mean? They know they have them and they intentionally treat them like $h!t repeatedly then say sorry. It's the same way with the employees as well. Hopefully the operation will improve.