The Merger as seen by the UAL MC

[CaptainZitface]

Wow, can't believe I scooped USA320pilot. It was posted on another secure board so I'm sure he can use his regular sources to get a copy of the documents

A 26 page Powerpoint presentation and 10 page document was produced by the UAL Merger Committee for the UAL MEC.Don't have a copy of the 10 page document, or the powerpoint speaker notes yet, but here's the conclusions and recommendations of the pps presentation (Bold print added):



US Airways - America West Seniority Integration Aftermath

Reaction between the US Airways and America West MECs and ALPA National

••Executive Council meeting

** 20page report produced by US Airways MEC believes the award violated the ““windfallâ€â€ provision of ALPA Merger Policy.

••US Airways MEC contends ALPA has authority to rectify the situation

•• America West MEC points out that award of Arbitration Board is binding on all parties

Where To Go From Here:

One lesson that stands out concerning the arbitrated seniority integration decision involving US Airways and America West is that by failing to negotiate a solution, the pilots placed their collective futures in the hands of a third party.

While sometimes that cannot be avoided, it is always a risk. That fact has clearly been underscored by the Alaska Airlines compensation arbitration a few years ago, which dealt a substantial pay decrease to the pilots of Alaska.

In the US Airways--America West case, the pilots who are most unhappy with the decision undoubtedly are asking themselves whether a little more flexibility in the earlier stages of the proceedings might have served them better.

Where To Go From Here:

•• Keep comments about this award to a minimum to protect our collective futures.

•• Negotiated solution to as many issues as possible is the wisest course of action.

•• Independent union realities

** The 10-page report to the MEC and this PowerPoint will be posted to our web page by next week.

UAL-MEC Policy Manual

““Rigorously pursue an equitable seniority integration in accordance with ALPA International Merger Policy, , with particular emphasis on protecting the seniority, career expectations, and quality of life of all UAL pilots. No unreasonable preference shall be given to one UAL seniority group over another.â€â€


Recommendations

••“Be preparedâ€

•• Transition Agreement discussion

•• “Cooperative Agreement with Unitedâ€

•• ALPA Merger and Fragmentation Policy review

••Specific recommendations going forward

•• National Seniority List Concept

 

[Pylit]

It would be interesting to see the entire document. Sounds like they might be concerned about the future, as they should be.
A few days after we lost our pensions, a UAL guy came up to me to offer his condolances. As I thanked him for that, I advised him that he was next. Sounds like maybe they learned from that experience and are now preparing for the next big thing.

 

[exB717Flyer]

UAL link

Here's the link I got from our ALPA message board but it doesn't seem to work from here. Maybe somebody else knows how to do this.

http://wb3.alpaboards.org/wb/file.asp?file=usair%2Epdf

 

[767jetz]

•• Keep comments about this award to a minimum to protect our collective futures.

This is why you probably won't find a direct link to the document or the Power Point presentation.

I've seen them both and rest assured that the UAL MEC as well as the MEC's of all other ALPA carriers are watching and analyzing this process carefully. You can also rest assured that there is communication between Prater and the EC, and the other MEC's. Everyone has a stake in this process unfolding correctly by the rule of law and by prescribed policies.

 

[EastUS]

This is why you probably won't find a direct link to the document or the Power Point presentation.

I've seen them both and rest assured that the UAL MEC as well as the MEC's of all other ALPA carriers are watching and analyzing this process carefully. You can also rest assured that there is communication between Prater and the EC, and the other MEC's. Everyone has a stake in this process unfolding correctly by the rule of law and by prescribed policies.

" Everyone has a stake in this process unfolding correctly by the rule of law and by prescribed policies."

Especially someone who was "the youngest in my class" who spent no time in military service, and was apparently adopted by an airline immediately after buying his licenses :blink: ANY semblance of DOH seniority thinking, that might serve to impede your eventual sitting in the left side of heavy metal for the next 100 years, would likely be akin to sunlight on a vampire to you Given that the UAL bunch, during the last attempted US/UAL merger, was a major reason for the then East MEC morons dumping DOH....

PS: As for "this process unfolding correctly by the rule of law and by prescribed policies"...methinks that you actually mean "this process unfolding correctly"...so that everyone at UAL, especially ME...doesn't get put below anyone with tons more years of work time, and many thousands of more flying hours than ME. I'll note that you're clearly a great supporter of the rule of law, and hold Process to be of great value; What's your take on OJay being "innocent"?.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

So does this mean that UAL is next, for sure?

 

[767jetz]

ANY semblance of DOH seniority thinking, that might serve to impede your eventual sitting in the left side of heavy metal for the next 100 years, would likely be akin to sunlight on a vampire to you

Another intelligent post by an angry person who can't stand when people disagree with his point of view.

You are certainly entitled to hold on to your attitude of entitlement based on your 'years of suffering in the trenches.' I get it. Just try to understand that while you feel unified among yourselves, your desire for DOH consideration certainly is not aligned with the values and will of a majority of the 60,000 ALPA pilots. I fully expect you to leave ALPA in pursuit of your own agenda and I think most pilots are OK with that. I just don't think (IMO) you will be successful in forcing your will on anyone in your current merger, let alone any future industry consolidation that may occur. I'm sorry you get so upset at anyone who voices this. It is an opinion shared with most other pilots. And it is just that... an opinion. There really is no need to attack and insult everyone who objects to your view. Time will tell how this unfolds.

In the mean time, don't expect others to be passive and sit by without having a say in a process that will set important precedents. Don't expect that there will be no resistance to what you and those you support are trying to do. Especially since it is very unpopular among your peers within the piloting profession. To do so would be unrealistic.

I honestly am sorry that your "tons more years of work time, and many thousands of more flying hours" got you so little a return at USAir. And I do think it sucks that an 18 year pilot at any airline can get furloughed. I honestly empathize with you. It is a horrible consequence of many cumulative years of unfortunate events at your airline. But it is NOT the fault of the AWA pilots or any other pilot group for that matter. And it certainly is not anyone's responsibility or obligation to give up what they have worked hard for, to make your career whole again.

I just strongly disagree in principle with the idea that one person's misfortune should be rectified by taking away from others who either made better choices or had better luck. And I will continue to voice my opinion here and within ALPA. If you are offended by that and feel the need to level insults and attacks... well, I can't help you there.

 

[EastUS]

Especially since it is very unpopular among your peers within the piloting profession.

I honestly am sorry that your "tons more years of work time, and many thousands of more flying hours" got you so little a return at USAir. And I do think it sucks that an 18 year pilot at any airline can get furloughed. I honestly empathize with you. .

And I will continue to voice my opinion here and within ALPA. If you are offended by that and feel the need to level insults and attacks... well, I can't help you there.

1)"Especially since it is very unpopular among your peers within the piloting profession."

I see..."the youngest in my class" who spent no time in military service"...Ummm...YOU are my "peer" now? :blink:

2)"I honestly am sorry that your "tons more years of work time, and many thousands of more flying hours" got you so little a return at USAir"

SURE you are..and I'm not amongst the group that's actually setup via the Nic BS to be fully hosed over. :down:

3)" And I will continue to voice my opinion here and within ALPA."

Knock yourself out. It's still some degree of a Free Country...Just don't expect anyone that you're precious Alpo's so eager to completely sell out to have much sympathy for your position Have fun spewing forth the absurdly condescending propaganda..."peer". It occurs to me that you may actually be sufficiently steeped in Alpo Koolaide that you perhaps even believe what you post.

 

[767jetz]

I see..."the youngest in my class" who spent no time in military service"...Ummm...YOU are my "peer" now? :blink:

Yes... P - E - E - R. Get over yourself. We are all professional pilots, licensed and experienced from varying backgrounds, with many thousands of hours in the air. So in that respect we are peers. Intellectually, or with respect to maturity (attitude, not age) we are obviously not.

I do not come here and make presumptions about your background or level of skill. Maybe you should consider extending that same courtesy. Anyone who has attained OUR position as a major airline pilot has done so through sacrifice and hard work. PLEASE tell me you are not really so arrogant as to think that your personal sacrifice is somehow more righteous than that of your PEERS.

And by the way, military service of any type, while noble and respected, is not a prerequisite to becoming a "real" airline pilot. Implying so just demonstrates your ignorance. Maybe I should start calling you an old fart and too over-the-hill to grasp the complexity of advanced avionics. (You know... the stuff replacing those old steam gauges you used for most of your career.) But I will not stoop to that level with childish jabs. I challenge you to act your age and do the same.

Now back on topic. As I said in my last post, IMO you will not be successful in forcing your will on anyone, and I strongly disagree in principle with the idea that one can rectify their misfortune by taking away from those who made better choices or had better luck.

I think in the end, the greatest benefit to a majority of USAirways pilots would come from negotiating industry leading pay and benefits, and raising the bar through a joint contract. But as a realist I don't expect that to happen. At least not until it is the last option.

 

[EastUS]

Yes... P - E - E - R. Get over yourself. We are all professional pilots,
I do not come here and make presumptions about your background or level of skill. Maybe you should consider extending that same courtesy.
And by the way, military service of any type, while noble and respected, is not a prerequisite to becoming a "real" airline pilot. Implying so just demonstrates your ignorance. Maybe I should start calling you an old fart and too over-the-hill to grasp the complexity of advanced avionics. (You know... the stuff replacing those old steam gauges you used for most of your career.) But I will not stoop to that level with childish jabs. I challenge you to act your age and do the same.

Cute stuff Sonny-Boy."Yes... P - E - E - R. Get over yourself". You can do what you like with your keyboard little boy.

"I do not come here and make presumptions about your background or level of skill. Maybe you should consider extending that same courtesy."

Fair enough. I'll extend you that same courtesy. Here's one that should be no problem for my
" P - E - E - R." How about 5 Grand on the table next month, or asap upon mutual scheduling considerations that says that I'll take your sorry, thirty-degree-max bank "professional pilot" tail to the bank/cleaners in a setup match at some "Fighter Fantasy" deal of mutual agreement?

I'm quite in earnest on this btw. The details can certainly be worked out. I imagine that we could arrange no shortage of witnesses just from these boards.

"(You know... the stuff replacing those old steam gauges you used for most of your career.) But I will not stoop to that level with childish jabs. I challenge you to act your age and do the same."

I challenge you to back up your punk mouth Shouldn't be any issue for such a "professional pilot" and respectable "P - E - E - R."


I realize that not having any military training's not prohibitive as per airline flying. Neither is the lack of such any excuse for being a loud mouthed punk...Ummm..I mean "P - E - E - R"

PS: As I'm seeing no reply, an additional sale's pitch = Consider the fun value..you're an Alpo "politican"..you could reasonably try and slip in a "ringer" from your group at UAL...or at least try and bribe the instructors.

Sigh...One more thought: All those thousands of flight hours that you've not spent, plus all that time I've spent looking at "those old steam gauges you used for most of your career" have certainly ruined both my reflexes and vision..it'd be a walk over for someone as good as your attitude indicates that you must be

Well..at least think about it. It'd take less time and work to simply grow a pair than it will to come up with some convoluted BS reply that attempts to denigrate an honest Challenge.

 

[LCC_#1]

HYPOCRITE!!!!!! Go to Hell!!!!
I HATE YOU!!! PERIOD!! STAY AWAY!! Your airline is as bad as US, so go F### YOURSELF!!

 

[Edward]

HYPOCRITE!!!!!! Go to DELETED BY MODERATOR!!
I HATE YOU!!! PERIOD!! STAY AWAY!! Your airline is as bad as US, so go F### YOURSELF!!

Lets play nice here. Thank you.

 

[LCC_#1]

Lets play nice here. Thank you.

TRYING , but 767 brings out the worse in the word HYPOCRITE and has NO fight here!! Let's see where HE STANDS WHEN HE GETS HALF HIS YEARS in a CERTAIN merger!

 

[EastUS]

TRYING , but 767 brings out the worse in the word HYPOCRITE and has NO fight here!! Let's see where HE STANDS WHEN HE GETS HALF HIS YEARS in a CERTAIN merger!

I suspect that he'll just "go to ground" for a brief bit, so's to allow for some space between the various postings, or at least to afford himself time to come up with some frumpy, and pompous responses Plus = He's pretty much run outta' any fresh material for the moment. Some sorts can get one a bit personally riled up.

 

[prechilill]

Yes... P - E - E - R. Get over yourself. We are all professional pilots, licensed and experienced from varying backgrounds, with many thousands of hours in the air. So in that respect we are peers. Intellectually, or with respect to maturity (attitude, not age) we are obviously not.

I do not come here and make presumptions about your background or level of skill. Maybe you should consider extending that same courtesy. Anyone who has attained OUR position as a major airline pilot has done so through sacrifice and hard work. PLEASE tell me you are not really so arrogant as to think that your personal sacrifice is somehow more righteous than that of your PEERS.

And by the way, military service of any type, while noble and respected, is not a prerequisite to becoming a "real" airline pilot. Implying so just demonstrates your ignorance. Maybe I should start calling you an old fart and too over-the-hill to grasp the complexity of advanced avionics. (You know... the stuff replacing those old steam gauges you used for most of your career.) But I will not stoop to that level with childish jabs. I challenge you to act your age and do the same.

Now back on topic. As I said in my last post, IMO you will not be successful in forcing your will on anyone, and I strongly disagree in principle with the idea that one can rectify their misfortune by taking away from those who made better choices or had better luck.

I think in the end, the greatest benefit to a majority of USAirways pilots would come from negotiating industry leading pay and benefits, and raising the bar through a joint contract. But as a realist I don't expect that to happen. At least not until it is the last option.

Excellent post, jetz