The unions are coming, the unions are coming!

[700UW]

Wrong, all unions, IAM, ALPA and TWU struck eastern at the same time, ask yourself why?

Ask yourself why Lorenzo is the only man in the US who is banned from owning or running another airline?

In 1983, Eastern became the launch customer of Boeing's new aircraft, the Boeing 757, which was ordered in 1978. Borman felt that its low cost of operation would make it an invaluable asset to the airline in the years to come. However, higher oil prices failed to materialize and the debt created by this purchase coupled with the Airbus A300 purchases made in 1977 proved to be a millstone around Eastern's neck, contributing to the February 1986 sale to Frank Lorenzo's Texas Air. At that time, Eastern was paying over $700,000 in interest each day before they sold a ticket and fueled or boarded a single aircraft. Borman claimed these purchases constituted "fleet modernization" rather than expansion, but Eastern's system growth during his tenure belies this assertion.

Competition: quality versus price
Eastern began losing money as it faced competition from no-frills airlines, such as People Express, which offered drastically reduced air fares. In an attempt to differentiate itself from its bargain competitors, Eastern began a marketing campaign stressing its quality of service and its rank of highly experienced pilots.

Sale and decline

July 2, 1988, Eastern Air Lines employee timetableUnable to keep up, Borman agreed to the sale of the airline in 1986 to Texas Air, led by Frank Lorenzo. Lorenzo (who was named as one of Time Magazine's 10 "worst bosses of the century") was known as a ruthless corporate raider and union buster. He had already purchased Continental and lost a bidding war for TWA to Carl Icahn.

Although Eastern's employees saw Lorenzo at the time as a savior, he would prove to be anything but a hero to the employees by the end of the decade. This event is widely seen as the beginning of the unwinding of the company, and the beginning of a steep decline into a period that saw strikes, empty planes, mass layoffs, bankruptcy, and eventually a ceasing of operations.



Labor relations: strikes and canceled service
Under Lorenzo's tenure, Eastern was crippled by severe labor unrest. Asked to accept deep cuts in pay and benefits, Eastern's mechanics and ramp service employees, represented by the IAM (International Assn. of Machinists and Aerospace Workers), walked out on March 4, 1989. A sympathy strike called by the pilots represented by ALPA (Air Line Pilots Assn.) and flight attendants represented by TWU (Transport Workers Union) effectively shut down the airline's domestic operations. Non-contract employees, including airport gate and ticket counter agents and reservation sales agents, did not honor the strike. Due to the strike, flights were canceled, resulting in the loss of millions of dollars in revenue.

Dismantling the airline
Lorenzo sold Eastern's shuttle service to real estate magnate Donald Trump in 1989, under whom it became the Trump Shuttle, while selling other parts of Eastern to his Texas Air holding company and its major subsidiary, Continental Airlines, on disadvantageous terms to Eastern.

Bankrupt
As a result of the strike, weakened airline structure, inability to compete after deregulation and other financial problems, Eastern filed for bankruptcy protection on March 9, 1989. This gave Lorenzo breathing room, and allowed him to continue operating the airline with strikebreakers. When control of the airline was taken away from Lorenzo by the courts and given to Marty Shugrue, it continued operations in an attempt to correct its cash flow, but to no avail. With the airline collapsing from debt, it ran out of money to operate on January 18th, 1991 following the run-up to the Gulf War. Over 18,000 employees lost their jobs and pensions in one day, not including the thousands laid off or furloughed prior to the collapse.

An asset liquidation sale was commenced later that year and provided Eastern's creditors with a remarkably good payout.

 

[Kev3188]

As I’ve said,
I worked in an open shop for 4 months. What was said and done by the good union members because I chose not to join, did nothing but reinforce my decision.
I belonged to a union at a closed shop for a year. What I saw and experienced convinced me that I did not want to be in another. This was a big part of why I chose to work at Delta.

Interesting... When I worked at open shops, I saw how mgmt. took full advantage of any goodwill/motivation employees had, and destroyed it. They churned people up and spit them out. I could site examples for days.

A big part of why I went to NWA was because it was union.

The teamsters sold their members out for something those members weren’t allowed to know.
Borman sold Eastern to Lorenzo because of the unions, in an effort to save Eastern from itself. Yes, Lorenzo was a piece of work, but the IAM exposed their agenda when they refused to talk with Marty Shugrue. It was the IAM that put 20,000+ Eastern employees out of work.

How ironic that you picked the anniversary of the Eastern strike to post this misguided drivel.

Don't want a union? Fine. But you have *zero* clue as to what lengths NWA mgmt. will go. Think you'll thrive in a meritocracy? Again, no clue as to the mentality of NWA mgmt. And don't think for a minute that a good lot of them wouldn't be coming over should this merger come to pass.

Whistle past the graveyard all you want, but don't be suprised when it comes back to haunt you.

 

[Come Fly with Me]

The union is definitely coming to Delta. Yesterday Delta announce that we are getting time clocks in August. The funny thing about it is they would always use it as union rhetoric. Management would say vote a union in vote a time clock also. I just hope ATL would get their heads out of their !@# and vote union YES.

 

[North by Northwest]

The union is defenitely coming to Delta. Yesterday Delta announce that we are getting time clocks in August. The funny thing about it is they would always use it as union rhetoric. Management would say vote a union in vote a time clock also. I just hope ATL would get their heads out of their !@# and vote union YES.

Welcome to the "New Delta"...spelled, NWA.

(take a look at your new senior management team's bios...Dick & team all originated at Lorenzo's Continental...then sucked NW dry. Now they've set up shop in Atlanta)

 

[nycaa]

It's quite interesting reading some of the misinformation on this board. On NW F/A states that date-of-hire seniority integration is a contractual item for them. You better take a look at your contract...its not contractual it is an AFA policy. Some NW F/A's brag about how great their contract is, if that is the case why was it voted down the first time around with AFA. If AFA is so great, why did they not negotiate a better contract for you, UA, or US? At AA we voted "NO" on our concessions and our unions president at the time was too much of a wimp and gave in to the company anyway, so much for a democratic union. DL F/A's beware of why it is so important to the NW F/A's that you are AFA before and if there is a merger. NW stands to gain the most from date-of-hire. Considering NW would make up about 35% of the combined workforce and approximately 83% of them have 10+ years, and about 63% have 15+ years...that does not sound fair or equitable. AFA will attempt to scare you with the US/HP pilot seniority arbitration, which gave HP a better deal than US. The arbitrators ruling was based on the fact that US was in bankruptcy at the time of merger and if it were not for HP most US pilots would have been out of work. This is not the case with a DL/NW merger, this would be a true merger and one airline is not saving the other. $43 a month is a lot of money these days and let me tell you what I feel I get for my money. I will say the union does one thing...they save the jobs, or get jobs back for those that should be fired in the first place. At any other company or industry these people would be terminated for their actions. DL F/A's I suggest you get all the facts first before making a decision. If AFA or other airline unions are so good at what they do then why were our wages and benefits cut so drastically? AFA has made a lot of promises to many airlines and have yet to come through. Don't be their next victim.

 

[bagboy]

Your whole post is full of misinformation. The NW f/a voted the proposed contract down multiple times. No one at NW would brag about how great their contract is since they don't have one. The deal they got is the one handed to them by the bk judge, not voted on. If you are with AA, how would you know what fair and equitable means(TWA)? Date of hire is it. It's the only fair way to go with a merger. If this were a buyout, DL maybe able to call the shots. If you think I should be slotted in behind some junior employee or reapply for my job at the bottom you are nuts.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Your whole post is full of misinformation. The NW f/a voted the proposed contract down multiple times. No one at NW would brag about how great their contract is since they don't have one. The deal they got is the one handed to them by the bk judge, not voted on. If you are with AA, how would you know what fair and equitable means(TWA)? Date of hire is it. It's the only fair way to go with a merger. If this were a buyout, DL maybe able to call the shots. If you think I should be slotted in behind some junior employee or reapply for my job at the bottom you are nuts.

Even with this new "law" a union contract is legal and binding. The contract will prevail over this worthless law.

 

[nycaa]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='580392' date='Mar 9 2008, 01:30 AM']Even with this new "law" a union contract is legal and binding. The contract will prevail over this worthless law.[/quote]
The statement I made is that there is nothing in the NW F/A contract regarding date of hire. What NW F/A's have in their contract is the Allegheny-Mohawk language, which is what was signed into law. Let them have their contract...I suggest they take a long look at the DL F/A rules first...they would get a better deal.

 

[nycaa]

Your whole post is full of misinformation. The NW f/a voted the proposed contract down multiple times. No one at NW would brag about how great their contract is since they don't have one. The deal they got is the one handed to them by the bk judge, not voted on. If you are with AA, how would you know what fair and equitable means(TWA)? Date of hire is it. It's the only fair way to go with a merger. If this were a buyout, DL maybe able to call the shots. If you think I should be slotted in behind some junior employee or reapply for my job at the bottom you are nuts.

TA #1 (PFAA) voted down, AFA raids PFAA, TA #2 (negotiated by AFA) voted down, court imposed agreement, agreement then ratified prior to exit from BK. NW F/A's had to have a ratified agreement before exit from BK in return F/A's received approx. $15,000 each. Agreement ratified was similar if not TA #2. So what did AFA do for NW? not much. AA/TW (acquisition) and DL/NW (merger) is like comparing apples to oranges. AA/TW seniority integration occurred after 9/11, so our union was responsible for protecting AA jobs. It was unfortunate what happened with the TW people, however, on the other hand one might ask after 2 BK's, 3 if you count the AA acquisition, the writing had been on the wall for many years that TW was in trouble. In a DL/NW situation date of hire would be great for NW not so good for a DL F/A. At 15 years my partner would lose 5,000 numbers and there are less than 8,000 NW F/A's, a 10 year DL F/A would lose 7,000 how is that fair? it's not. Also, I suggest you ask some UA F/A's how they felt about date of hire during the UA/US merger talks...they didn't like it one bit. From what you're saying it is okay to through a 10 year (junior) F/A under the bus....I think not. AFA makes a lot of promises and I think there are a lot of UA/US/NW F/A's that have yet to see them follow through.

 

[North by Northwest]

It's quite interesting reading some of the misinformation on this board. On NW F/A states that date-of-hire seniority integration is a contractual item for them. You better take a look at your contract...its not contractual it is an AFA policy. Some NW F/A's brag about how great their contract is, if that is the case why was it voted down the first time around with AFA. If AFA is so great, why did they not negotiate a better contract for you, UA, or US? At AA we voted "NO" on our concessions and our unions president at the time was too much of a wimp and gave in to the company anyway, so much for a democratic union. DL F/A's beware of why it is so important to the NW F/A's that you are AFA before and if there is a merger. NW stands to gain the most from date-of-hire. Considering NW would make up about 35% of the combined workforce and approximately 83% of them have 10+ years, and about 63% have 15+ years...that does not sound fair or equitable. AFA will attempt to scare you with the US/HP pilot seniority arbitration, which gave HP a better deal than US. The arbitrators ruling was based on the fact that US was in bankruptcy at the time of merger and if it were not for HP most US pilots would have been out of work. This is not the case with a DL/NW merger, this would be a true merger and one airline is not saving the other. $43 a month is a lot of money these days and let me tell you what I feel I get for my money. I will say the union does one thing...they save the jobs, or get jobs back for those that should be fired in the first place. At any other company or industry these people would be terminated for their actions. DL F/A's I suggest you get all the facts first before making a decision. If AFA or other airline unions are so good at what they do then why were our wages and benefits cut so drastically? AFA has made a lot of promises to many airlines and have yet to come through. Don't be their next victim.

FIRSTLY, YOU ARE NOT an AA FA (you are SO obvious, it's pathetic, so leave AA out of this. AA STILL makes more than your NON UNION Delta and has BETTER work rules, as DOES NW AFA. That's what a back bone will do.)....YOU ARE THE DELTA NON UNION COMPANY MACHINE. Let's just get that out in the open.

Although, our DOH is AFA policy which governs our contractual bylaws first and foremost, the A/Mohawk ruling is the floor ceiling...You know what that means? If you don't ask the US/ HP pilots, and IF your propaganda thinks this was based on Bankruptcy, I suggest Delta hires a different gun, cause you don't know JACK. I notice you left out the airline seniority legislation. I'll let you tell Delta FA about that since you are AA and clearly have a TREMENDOUS investment/CONCERN here.

Then you can come back on here and inform them that they could be looking a a 1 for 3 slot in NW favor. Clearly, your reading comprehension is an issue here. Or, you haven't read something you claim to have...which makes you what?

Please allow me to assist with the interpretation of our CONTRACT...the one we VOTED on, the one that provided close to $17,000. in equity, and the one that provided $27,000. in early out payments. Please refresh our minds as to what Delta's comparison was. I work at NWA and I don't hear ANYONE "bragging" about how great their contract is...Don't hear that at UAL, AA, or any other Union carrier. What I do hear is Delta FA's disgusted at their work rules when compared to Unionized contracts. I do hear Delta FA being disgusted when they hear how much they received in equity from bankruptcy compared to NW.

Now, I can tell you this, and you can take this back to your NON UNION SLAVE MASTERS...you will be despised by old Delta FA if the AFA fails to win, and they are slotted in to NW's (ala Pan Am) favor by an arbitrator. Our legal document and the LAW...says that is the LEAST that will happen to Northwest FA's. If Delta thinks it will remain NON UNION after a merger with NW...I suggest you sit down with "Dick" have a long talk about his 15 years in the NW trenches.

Now run along and get some more orders from your Delta NON UNION Propaganda Masters. Flunky does what Flunky's told, cause Flunky can't think for themselves.

Now, to correct your MISINFORMATION on here about OUR CONTRACT and DOH:

http://www.nwaafa.org/



(FAKE) nycaa:"TA #1 (PFAA) voted down, AFA raids PFAA, TA #2 (negotiated by AFA) voted down, court imposed agreement, agreement then ratified prior to exit from BK. NW F/A's had to have a ratified agreement before exit from BK in return F/A's received approx. $15,000 each"

You conveniently left out the part that the BANKRUPTCY COURT PREVENTED NWA from striking! Wanna try that out of BK at the new Delta? Can you post how much Delta FAs got in equity, and early out....since you are the AA fa in the know about Delta and NW...help us out here will ya?

There is one part of your piece of propaganda garbage I agree with "DL F/A's I suggest you get all the facts first before making a decision" and NOT listen to a lie from Delta management hell bent on keeping you a SLAVE to be used and abused at will.

 

[North by Northwest]

7 March 2008

Negotiated Bankruptcy Payment Update
Our union negotiated an equity claim in Northwest's bankruptcy restructuring to partially offset concessions. Most of this claim was paid out July 2, 2007 when each eligible flight attendant received $14,726.84 (pre-tax).

Another negotiated benefit, the Surplus Severance (Letter of Agreement 19 - Early Out/Severance Program) payment, was also partially disbursed to flight attendants in July 2007. That initial disbursement amount was $2,045.32 pre-tax.

GRAND TOTAL OF $16,900.00 (including the 1% hold back)


Let's not forget the NWA AFA $27,000 Early out payment.

Now, Ms. FAKE AA, share with us how much Delta FA were paid.

FYI: NWA AFA SCOPE:

http://www.nwaafa.org/resources/contract/

 

[nycaa]

North by Northwest you got me. I'm not a AA F/A I am actually a DL manager....at 23 years I've probably been flying longer than you and have seen so much more. I have heard it all from the union and you know what, I don't believe a word they say until I see it for myself. My partner is a F/A for Delta and it took him long enough to reach a point where he can hold a decent trip and with the AFA date-of-hire he would lose about 5000-5500 seniority numbers thats about 65% of the NW F/A seniroity list, oh yeah that would be fair and equitable for a DL F/A. Date of hire is a one way street and NW is the one who would gain. There is good and bad in each contract we all have certain things that work better than others and whether you believe it or not, DL doesn't have it any worse than NW, UA, or US, and little by little certain items are being restored. They are getting things back a lot quicker than we are at AA. Oh yes if you have not forgotten it is your precious AFA that lowered the bar for everyone. Also, we at AA were the only ones to stand up and vote "NO" on our concession agreement. If it had not been for the corrupt union president at the time, it would have stayed a "NO" vote. When was the last time AFA or an AFA carrier stood their ground....maybe Alaska back in the early '90's. AFA made a lot of noise about not giving up pensions and yet each AFA airline gave a "Yes" vote...oh well I guess it is what it is. I've said it before and I will say it again, the only reason NW has become so active in organized AFA at DL is that the NW F/A stand to gain with date of hire. AFA is no different than any other union these days, they have forgetten about the hard working F/A's that come in and do their job every day, and focus on the bad apples.

 

[Nor'Easta]

North by Northwest you got me. I'm not a AA F/A I am actually a DL manager....at 23 years I've probably been flying longer than you and have seen so much more. I have heard it all from the union and you know what, I don't believe a word they say until I see it for myself. My partner is a F/A for Delta and it took him long enough to reach a point where he can hold a decent trip and with the AFA date-of-hire he would lose about 5000-5500 seniority numbers thats about 65% of the NW F/A seniroity list, oh yeah that would be fair and equitable for a DL F/A. Date of hire is a one way street and NW is the one who would gain. There is good and bad in each contract we all have certain things that work better than others and whether you believe it or not, DL doesn't have it any worse than NW, UA, or US, and little by little certain items are being restored. They are getting things back a lot quicker than we are at AA. Oh yes if you have not forgotten it is your precious AFA that lowered the bar for everyone. Also, we at AA were the only ones to stand up and vote "NO" on our concession agreement. If it had not been for the corrupt union president at the time, it would have stayed a "NO" vote. When was the last time AFA or an AFA carrier stood their ground....maybe Alaska back in the early '90's. AFA made a lot of noise about not giving up pensions and yet each AFA airline gave a "Yes" vote...oh well I guess it is what it is. I've said it before and I will say it again, the only reason NW has become so active in organized AFA at DL is that the NW F/A stand to gain with date of hire. AFA is no different than any other union these days, they have forgetten about the hard working F/A's that come in and do their job every day, and focus on the bad apples.

How much Delta-Aid did you drink today? I hope that the Delta f/a's are smart enough this time to realize that management is only in it for themselves. Management like you!

 

[North by Northwest]

North by Northwest you got me. I'm not a AA F/A I am actually a DL manager....at 23 years I've probably been flying longer than you and have seen so much more. I have heard it all from the union and you know what, I don't believe a word they say until I see it for myself. My partner is a F/A for Delta and it took him long enough to reach a point where he can hold a decent trip and with the AFA date-of-hire he would lose about 5000-5500 seniority numbers thats about 65% of the NW F/A seniroity list, oh yeah that would be fair and equitable for a DL F/A. Date of hire is a one way street and NW is the one who would gain. There is good and bad in each contract we all have certain things that work better than others and whether you believe it or not, DL doesn't have it any worse than NW, UA, or US, and little by little certain items are being restored. They are getting things back a lot quicker than we are at AA. Oh yes if you have not forgotten it is your precious AFA that lowered the bar for everyone. Also, we at AA were the only ones to stand up and vote "NO" on our concession agreement. If it had not been for the corrupt union president at the time, it would have stayed a "NO" vote. When was the last time AFA or an AFA carrier stood their ground....maybe Alaska back in the early '90's. AFA made a lot of noise about not giving up pensions and yet each AFA airline gave a "Yes" vote...oh well I guess it is what it is. I've said it before and I will say it again, the only reason NW has become so active in organized AFA at DL is that the NW F/A stand to gain with date of hire. AFA is no different than any other union these days, they have forgetten about the hard working F/A's that come in and do their job every day, and focus on the bad apples.

A manager/FA uh...make up your story and stick to it (not that it will do your FAKE lies any good). WOW, no wonder they have so many issues in in-flight. For someone in management to make such vast assumptions as you do, not knowing a thing about me, yet assuming you have been in this FAR longer and seen FAR more is a leap off a cliff. Here you go... dip in and dip out, FIRST you were AA10, NOW you're nycaa, what's next, 007AA?

I got a NEWS FLASH for ya, if Delta FA aren't Union protected by the time this merger takes place, it will be DOH or Arbitration. In arbitration there is NOTHING Delta can do to sway the outcome. Now, if you think your "partner" (which is more of your FAKE storyline) will lose out with DOH, he better buckle up for the Arbitrator ruling. He might not like the Fair and Equitable NW 1- 3 Delta slotting.

If you are this concern for your "partner" you had better spend this valuable time working to prevent this merger, because if it goes through, it will be a whole new game at the "new" Delta.

I noticed how you IGNORED my FACTS and FIGURES. Did your SLAVE MASTERS tell you not to back up your bottom of the Industry equity and early out pennies? Oh, we've seen your kind many times before. Now allow me to let you in on a little secret, I have FAR more seniority than your FAKE 23 years, am far more experienced at dealing with the FACTS of corporate America, esp. airline hacks. So you just keep trying on here, this will be one PROPAGANDA skirmish you will lose. Do yourself a favor and brush up on your managerial spelling, it's atrocious! You will need far more combat training to rattle our cages, we don't scare easily, and we usally take no prisoners...ask RAndeson, he LEFT! They got rid of our 5,000 mechanics, but they just couldn't pull it off with the FAs. We know your game and are prepared for D day.

Delta FA deserve BETTER! If you are an example of what they have had to contend with I truly feel sorry for them.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

This "aanyc" person has used other screen names here, but tells the same story...talks about the "partner", etc.. Except I think on another board he claimed to be an attorney.
Nonetheless, he won't answer your questions about equity claims/post BK compensation, NbyNW, because Delta's is far inferior to NW's. (I wonder why his partner doesn't stand up for his anti-union self?)
Anyway....as for the "buyout" severance package from 2 years ago: It was based on a formula that topped out at 12 years. So if you had 28 years, you got the same amount of $$ as a 12 year FA. It averaged for most FAs to be around 1k for every year of service=12k was the max...about 15k less than a NW FA at 28 years.
Post BK equity was based on prior year's salary. But the average FA probably got (depending on if you sold thestock options and this recent profit sharing check) around 3-4K. FAR less than the 16,900K of NW.

But truthfully, this aa person is reading right from Delta's anti-union website playbook.
We've heard it before...actually back in 2001, 2002. It's a big yawn.