this is simply an emotional response to tough times

[Bob Owens]

Many arguments made on here I don't agree with, but I can see their origins and can appreciate they may be good arguments and in fact correct. Again, I'm wrong more than I'm right. But the one argument that I just will not listen to because of how RIDICULOUS its foundations are is the "Parker will be better and refreshing". Seriously? That is like the womne sleeping with the married guy thinking "he is gonna leave his wife, and then be faithful to me.......he won't cheat on me, he just cheated on his wife because he loves me".

Seriously people, look at Parker's track record with airlines AND labor relations........where is the improvement coming from over Horton? Not going to argue the quality of Horton or his team, but I will argue that FACTS SHOW Parker may not be worse, but sure as hell won't be better......

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

When the TWU Presidents met with USAIR management last July I said to them "You treat the employees you already have like crap, you have open contracts and refuse to negotiate with them, why should we think that you would treat us any better than the employees you have? " He insisted that everyone was happy at US and understood that USAIR wasn't big enough to pay what United and Delta pay. I countered with the fact that WN is smaller than all of us yet paid better.

Why would we want to see US and AA combine and create the largest carrier in the world when those are the worst two airlines out there to work for? Does anyone really believe that either of these management teams will change their stripes and all of a sudden treat their employees well? I'd rather see Jet Blue's management take over. Even though they aren't used to dealing with unions they obviously have more respect for their employees than either USAIR or AA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

are you willing to become non-union to get B6's employment package?

Remember also that a large part of B6's financial success is because they have so few topped out employees or those collecting retirement.

WN's employee costs in total were the industry's lowest despite paying top of the scale - until average seniority started looking like the network/legacy carriers and WN's costs will only grow as they slow growth to snail's pace.

AA stopped growing for 10 years which was part of why its average employee costs went thru the roof compared to other airlines. They had no choice but to force everyone of the employees down the scale because they didn't have any new hire people to help dilute the averages.

The question is why AMR mgmt didn't realize this would happen after the 2003 employee cuts; other network airlines managed to figure it out.

 

[chris perry]

are you willing to become non-union to get B6's employment package?

Remember also that a large part of B6's financial success is because they have so few topped out employees or those collecting retirement.

WN's employee costs in total were the industry's lowest despite paying top of the scale - until average seniority started looking like the network/legacy carriers and WN's costs will only grow as they slow growth to snail's pace.

AA stopped growing for 10 years which was part of why its average employee costs went thru the roof compared to other airlines. They had no choice but to force everyone of the employees down the scale because they didn't have any new hire people to help dilute the averages.

The question is why AMR mgmt didn't realize this would happen after the 2003 employee cuts; other network airlines managed to figure it out.

WT they can't even figure out who's supposed to be at work everyday.Sad but true

 

[WorldTraveler]

WT they can't even figure out who's supposed to be at work everyday.Sad but true

don't worry, they can take a writeoff for that!

 

[jimntx]

When the TWU Presidents met with USAIR management last July I said to them "You treat the employees you already have like crap, you have open contracts and refuse to negotiate with them, why should we think that you would treat us any better than the employees you have? " He insisted that everyone was happy at US and understood that USAIR wasn't big enough to pay what United and Delta pay. I countered with the fact that WN is smaller than all of us yet paid better.

Why would we want to see US and AA combine and create the largest carrier in the world when those are the worst two airlines out there to work for? Does anyone really believe that either of these management teams will change their stripes and all of a sudden treat their employees well? I'd rather see Jet Blue's management take over. Even though they aren't used to dealing with unions they obviously have more respect for their employees than either USAIR or AA.

Ah, but Bob, don't you see? Our union leaders have met with DP and he has promised to pay us all the money we have lost over the past 10 years. We have a Memorandum of Understanding. DP would never renege on that, now would he?

(Personally, I think a merger with US Airways under DP will end up just like "Pull Together, Win Together." And, we all know how well that worked out. Bonusses and London townhouses for the execs. Crap for us.)

 

[WorldTraveler]

didn't you hear.... the townhouse is SOLD!

 

[Rogallo]

Like you said you get what you pay for, bottom of the industry pay should only get you bottom of the industry performance.

Absolutely...

 

[jimntx]

didn't you hear.... the townhouse is SOLD!

The fact that it was ever bought, and particularly the fact that it was bought and its existence kept hidden until bankruptcy, is a disgrace. I don't care whether it's been sold now or not.

 

[eolesen]

It wasn't a secret -- The property wasn't owned thru a shell corporation. It was public record.

At the time it was bought because the company was making money hand over fist, so nobody in the unions really cared.

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

When the TWU Presidents met with USAIR management last July I said to them "You treat the employees you already have like crap, you have open contracts and refuse to negotiate with them, why should we think that you would treat us any better than the employees you have? " He insisted that everyone was happy at US and understood that USAIR wasn't big enough to pay what United and Delta pay. I countered with the fact that WN is smaller than all of us yet paid better.

Why would we want to see US and AA combine and create the largest carrier in the world when those are the worst two airlines out there to work for? Does anyone really believe that either of these management teams will change their stripes and all of a sudden treat their employees well? I'd rather see Jet Blue's management take over. Even though they aren't used to dealing with unions they obviously have more respect for their employees than either USAIR or AA.

I remember you saying that earlier in another thread, and although we don't always see eye-to-eye and I'm sure my opinions anger you at times, I give you full credit for being one of the employees who hates the current management but won't let that cloud there judgement on who the next management team should be. That is a difficult thing to do, remove emotion and focus on the facts.

Oh, great point about B6, I think they would do wonders if given AA and B6 as a combined entity. They run great service, as industry goes they are good to their employees and they are masterful about leveraging codes haring agreements to extend their reach.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

 

[chris perry]

don't worry, they can take a writeoff for that!

That's the problem they take write off's for their mistakes and blame everyone else.

 

[jimntx]

It wasn't a secret -- The property wasn't owned thru a shell corporation. It was public record.

At the time it was bought because the company was making money hand over fist, so nobody in the unions really cared.

(To the Sunday school tune...)
Yes, the company's always right. Yes, the company's always right. Yes, the company's always right. Tom Horton tells me so.

 

[Bob Owens]

I remember you saying that earlier in another thread, and although we don't always see eye-to-eye and I'm sure my opinions anger you at times, I give you full credit for being one of the employees who hates the current management but won't let that cloud there judgement on who the next management team should be. That is a difficult thing to do, remove emotion and focus on the facts.

Oh, great point about B6, I think they would do wonders if given AA and B6 as a combined entity. They run great service, as industry goes they are good to their employees and they are masterful about leveraging codes haring agreements to extend their reach.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

Hate is a strong word, they are what they are, I dont hate them. But they knew when they went into this they had to go, it was in the script, its in every script in the retelling of the same story.