Turks Shoot Down Russian Fighter

delldude

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Little accident.....
 
 
ISTANBUL — Turkish fighter jets on patrol near the Syrian border shot down a Russian warplane on Tuesday after it violated Turkey’s airspace, a long-feared escalation that could further strain relations between Russia and the West.
The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed that one of its jets, a Sukhoi SU-24, had crashed in Syria but said it had been downed “presumably as a result of shelling from the ground.”
The Russian Defense Ministry also asserted that, “The plane stayed exclusively above the territory of Syria throughout the entire flight,” and said that the two pilots had ejected.
The Turkish military did not identify the nationality of the plane but said in a statement on its website that its pilots fired only after repeated warnings to the other warplane.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/world/europe/turkey-syria-russia-military-plane.html
 

Ifly2

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That there ain't no accident, on either side

Good thing Turkey is in NATO, we may finally have an excuse (obligation...) to go kill us some Ruskies;)

That would be an observation, not any sort of argument
 

Ifly2

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snip - "You have Sunni's faction ISIS fighting Syria! Yet Syria is alley to Iran who is supporting Shite militants to battle Sunni's. However, Saudi Arabia doesn't trust Iran so obviously supporting Sunni's. Let's add Turkey into the equation who have covertly been supporting ISIS because they are doing battle against the Kurds ! Russia now backing Syria to obviously go against ISIS but maybe Turkey now! - snip

Stole that, and it is just the tip of the berg...

Kissinger has no real solution, just a general caution to prioritize US interests in the region. (World Order - Kissinger...)

I'm sure the collective BS of blather brothers Rush, Bill, and Sean is smarter century's worth of American and European diplomatic history, and all the people who actually study and watch these people.

We should just ask the Blather Brothers what we should do...

Yeahhhh... That's the ticket....
 

Ifly2

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snip again...

Senator John McCain visits FSA inside Syria.....

He stayed in the country for several hours before returning to Turkey. Both in Syria and Turkey, McCain and Idris met with assembled leaders of Free Syrian Army units that traveled from around the country to see the U.S. senator. Inside those meetings, rebel leaders called on the United States to step up its support to the Syrian armed opposition and provide them with heavy weapons, a no-fly zone, and airstrikes on the Syrian regime and the forces of Hezbollah, which is increasingly active in Syria.

......snip

Through NATO ally, Turkey, US supplied weapons to destabilize Assad.

With all that area that ISIS holds, Vladimir keeps picking FSA targets on the Turkish border.
 

Ifly2

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I sure the hell don't know the answer, wouldn't pretend to

Do you?

Or is it just "Obama's wrong...."

He may be, we know for sure W was, Clinton was, but less so than W, Bush The Elder didn't make any obvious screwups, but he was a career spook, Reagan screwed up big more than once, Carter got to deal with the overthrow of our puppet The Shah.

How far back does one go to find an actual successful effective Middle East policy by any Western Country, or them as a group?

The British Empire paid them off... Maybe we should try that?


I'm waiting for all of you learned genius types with all the experience and education to lay The Solution out here for the rest of us... And "Obama Sux" is not an or the answer....
 

townpete

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delldude said:
If it escalates to our level, we have probably the worst admin in history to realistically deal with a direct confrontation.
 
That's a mild understatement. 
 
OP
delldude

delldude

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777 fixer said:
 
If they had blown up the helicopter with a Kornet does that mean the Russians support them?  ISIS has lots of US equipment too.  Does that mean we support ISIS?
 
Where you been?
US has been (illegally)supplying arms to the Syrian rebels for some time.
Never heard of Benghazi?
 
 
The Obama administration officials — with the awareness of the Secretary of State — were involved in violating a ban on arming rebels in Syria in an operation that mirrors the Iran-Contra scandal during the Reagan Administration. But while the news media initiated a feeding-frenzy on Iran-Contra, they’re either yawning or helping the Obama administration in covering up the Benghazi-to-Syria arms transfers.
http://www.aim.org/guest-column/benghazi-cover-up-tied-to-u-s-gun-smuggling-operation-documents/
 

Ifly2

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To revisit an earlier theme, under which administration have more Americans died in terrorist attacks?

For bonus points, which administratin has actually killed more terrorists?
 
OP
delldude

delldude

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By Dave Boyer - The Washington Times -
Tuesday, November 24, 2015
 
President Obama said the shoot-down “points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations” in Syria, including attacks against moderate Syrian opposition groups near the Turkish border.
If Russia were going after the Islamic State instead, Mr. Obama said, such mistakes “are less likely to occur.” He said it’s important for Turkish and Russian officials to communicate and to “discourage any kind of escalation.”
French President Francois Hollande called the incident “a serious one.”
 

traderjake

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777 fixer said:
 
If they had blown up the helicopter with a Kornet does that mean the Russians support them?  ISIS has lots of US equipment too.  Does that mean we support ISIS?
 
 
 
Secret Pentagon Report Reveals US "Created" ISIS As A "Tool" To Overthrow Syria's President Assad
 
"use the Jihadists as the vehicle of choice to achieve a political goal: depose of Syria's president Assad, who for years has stood in the way of a critical Qatari natural gas pipeline, one which could dethrone Russia as Europe's dominant - and belligerent - source of energy"
 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-23/secret-pentagon-report-reveals-us-created-isis-tool-overthrow-syrias-president-assad
 
Aug 20, 2002
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traderjake said:
 
 
 
Secret Pentagon Report Reveals US "Created" ISIS As A "Tool" To Overthrow Syria's President Assad
 
"use the Jihadists as the vehicle of choice to achieve a political goal: depose of Syria's president Assad, who for years has stood in the way of a critical Qatari natural gas pipeline, one which could dethrone Russia as Europe's dominant - and belligerent - source of energy"
 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-23/secret-pentagon-report-reveals-us-created-isis-tool-overthrow-syrias-president-assad
 
Now  " THAT "  wouldn't surprise me, one bit  !!!