Twu/Amfa Supporters

[swamt]

Interesting that their absense coincides perfectly with the sudden call by UAL for the ibt to meet for discussions on resuming expedited negotiations.

Somebody is certainly busy

I was wondering the same. I think they are tired of being proven wrong. A little embarrassed. Can you believe how deep they are grasping to dig something up about AMFA.

BTW I talked to some folks today that are handling the AA/AMFA card drive. You guys are doing very well. I will admitt, and I opologize, but, you guys are doing a heck of alot better than I thought you guys would do. Looking good and going very strong. Won't be to terribly long until you guys will get a vote. Time is now for change.

I wish these guys would come back. With all their post, it was litterally helping AMFA.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Dobby,

"It is not unionism to give up another's job so you can get more for an ever shrinking group of elite AMTs."

Unionism certainly isn't having international officers who are appointed and earn 3X what an AMT makes peddle concessionary contracts knowing full well that they will not have to live under the pay and benefit cuts.

The twu is not a union for people with a craft. The twu is an industrial union which is why AMTs want out.

 

[xUT]

I was wondering the same. I think they are tired of being proven wrong. A little embarrassed. Can you believe how deep they are grasping to dig something up about AMFA.

BTW I talked to some folks today that are handling the AA/AMFA card drive. You guys are doing very well. I will admitt, and I opologize, but, you guys are doing a heck of alot better than I thought you guys would do. Looking good and going very strong. Won't be to terribly long until you guys will get a vote. Time is now for change.

I wish these guys would come back. With all their post, it was litterally helping AMFA.

IMHO,
They achieved 'exactly' what they wanted to by giving false hopes and promises of a pension and to reopen negotiations.
This helped the LBO2 pass as some believed the ibt would save them and this is what they wanted.
Just a spoiler, nothing more.
Nothing else to see here, move along. 😛
B) xUT

 

[Overspeed]

Dobby,

"It is not unionism to give up another's job so you can get more for an ever shrinking group of elite AMTs."

Unionism certainly isn't having international officers who are appointed and earn 3X what an AMT makes peddle concessionary contracts knowing full well that they will not have to live under the pay and benefit cuts.

The twu is not a union for people with a craft. The twu is an industrial union which is why AMTs want out.

Ken,
And "defending the profession" by paying for memorial for Charles Taylor with AA Corp and ARSA money is the example you provide as an alternative? HA! That's a riot. You are a first class hypocrite and flip flopper. "I'm AMFA, no I'm TWU, no I'm AMP, no I'm AMFA again." Face it Ken, you have so little influence and credibility you have to turn to the very people who seek to destroy good union jobs through outsourcing to honor the father of our profession.

Unionism is not AMFA for sure. They have not done the job they promised. AMFA represented over 25,000 members prior to 2000 and now they represent only WN and AS. They are the two most profitable airlines in the US and they outsource more than 60% of their work. If that is the model you want emulated great. Make sure you tell all the people who you ask to sign cards that if you have less than a 1990 seniority date they will have no job based on past results.

The TWU has protected your behind more than once Ken. How many times was your butt on the line in SAN because you were harassing your fellow AMTs? More than once Ken. A TWU attorney had to cover your behind, a TWU Int'l rep pulled strings and opened up slots in DFW so you could transfer even when there was no slots, and TWU reps more than once had to intervene on your behalf when your mouth got you in trouble with HR.

You love the TWU when they are giving you checks for your busts and covering your ass but you talk constant crap about the Int'l reps that pull strings for you personally. You are the ultimate modern day Judas.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Dobby,

"The TWU has protected your behind more than once Ken. How many times was your butt on the line in SAN because you were harassing your fellow AMTs? More than once Ken. A TWU attorney had to cover your behind, a TWU Int'l rep pulled strings and opened up slots in DFW so you could transfer even when there was no slots, and TWU reps more than once had to intervene on your behalf when your mouth got you in trouble with HR.

You love the TWU when they are giving you checks for your busts and covering your ass but you talk constant crap about the Int'l reps that pull strings for you personally. You are the ultimate modern day Judas."

I never harassed a fellow AMT. So why would I need a twu attorney? You have facts you wish to share then be someone with integrity and identify yourself and state your claim. Other wise remain the useless tool that you are.

No twu international rep. pulled any strings to open up a slot for me to get to DFW. You have facts you wish to share then be someone with integrity and identify yourself and state your claim. Otherwise remain the useless tool that you are.

My mouth never got me in trouble with HR and no int rep. had to intervene on my behalf. You have facts to share then be someone with integrity and identify yourself and state your claim. Otherwise remain the useless tool that you are.

You constantly attempt to try and connect dots between who donates money towards my non-profit organization's efforts to promote the first Aircraft Mechanic and those who followed in his footsteps. You should know someone who can read the English language and translate it into a form of communication that you could understand. From day one everyone who donated money to the AMTA has been identified and acknowledged. The twu international and Locals have each donated money towards the AMTA's efforts. So have companies and organizations and individuals. I use these donations to promote a craft & profession that deserves to be recognized. This is the same craft & profession you are to afraid to belong to since you cowar behind that alias.

If there is any Judas it would be you and those who hide and cowar behind an alias while helping erode a craft and profession that should be promoted. You talk a lot of nonsense which is expected from you. But please continue to spew lies it only shows the type of people who can support the twu.

 

[Overspeed]

Ok we will do it your way then, but we lose MORE heads.
I thought we voted yes to "save jobs"?

You guys talk out both sides of your mouth, depending on what BS you need to spread.

When talking about WN pay, you guys all claim that is a Teamsters contract and only "extended" by AMFA. When you talk about outsourcing, it is ALL AMFA. When in fact SWA is hiring and many them they hire are your very own TWU represented AMT's as they leave this carrier in disgust. Which is it really?

By the way, even the WN AMFA Facilities mechanic makes $40+ per hour. Compare that one to your Industry Leading Concession.

When the Company is going to cut 4,000 jobs and the TA reduces that to 2,000 that is "saving jobs."

Everything in the WN contract was negotiated by the IBT, including outsourcing, and extended by AMFA. The outsourcing language was degraded by AMFA when they negotiated a HC "cap" per aircraft and "negotiated" one additional line of in-house overhaul for outsourcing four lines to El Salvador. So AMFA maybe gained 80 to 90 jobs. WOW! That's huge! An airline that is nearly the same fleet size as AA and much more profitable caps AMTs at 2.75 per aircraft and AMFA calls that a win? AA will still be at more than 10 to 1 by the time the new fleets are online and the OSS cap is fully realized. 7 jobs per aircraft will have to be cut to get WN wages? Sweet! Make sure you tell all your card signers that they will probably not have a job in the future.

Yes WN Facilities mechanics make more than AA. And they have how many? Less than 500? 400? 300? Yeah, another big win for AMFA. Outsource more facilities work to get higher wages for few.

The main difference with WN and AA is how they got to where they are now. WN always was and still is a big outsourcer of work. AA has always been a big insourcer of work. The only way to get to the WN wages is to emulate the WN business model including their contract with AMTs. So why not tell people the truth Dave? Tell them that when they sign an AMFA card with the belief that WN wages are coming tell them how you intend to get there. Tell them that vast amounts of overhaul jobs will need to be outsourced. Tell them that PALM, CRO, and TAESL is going to be outsourced for sure. Tell them that only four to five lines of airframe overhaul will stay in-house. That only the 3,500 AMT positions will remain on the Line. And that means only those with pre-1990 will be here at best.

If you would just tell the truth on those points there would nothing to argue about. Dave don't you believe that if members pay dues they deserve to be represented? Then that means the union needs to fight for their jobs at the best wages possible. How can a union negotiate to give up dues paying members' jobs? Yes the TWU did agree to more outsourcing with the new CBA however we had two choices really, vote no and risk abrogation and huge job losses or vote yes on a deal that mitigated those job losses. In that way the TWU represented its members in the best way possible by getting an early out package which will reduce the number of involuntary job losses and reduces the number of jobs losses due to a lower outsourcing percentage. And you know what Dave, I know it is not a good deal. The best deal was the one the TWU had for us back in 2010 and the great flip flopping "I'm for change from within" leaders recommended we vote no. Well we know how that benefitted us.

 

[Overspeed]

Dobby,

"The TWU has protected your behind more than once Ken. How many times was your butt on the line in SAN because you were harassing your fellow AMTs? More than once Ken. A TWU attorney had to cover your behind, a TWU Int'l rep pulled strings and opened up slots in DFW so you could transfer even when there was no slots, and TWU reps more than once had to intervene on your behalf when your mouth got you in trouble with HR.

You love the TWU when they are giving you checks for your busts and covering your ass but you talk constant crap about the Int'l reps that pull strings for you personally. You are the ultimate modern day Judas."

I never harassed a fellow AMT. So why would I need a twu attorney? You have facts you wish to share then be someone with integrity and identify yourself and state your claim. Other wise remain the useless tool that you are.

No twu international rep. pulled any strings to open up a slot for me to get to DFW. You have facts you wish to share then be someone with integrity and identify yourself and state your claim. Otherwise remain the useless tool that you are.

My mouth never got me in trouble with HR and no int rep. had to intervene on my behalf. You have facts to share then be someone with integrity and identify yourself and state your claim. Otherwise remain the useless tool that you are.

You constantly attempt to try and connect dots between who donates money towards my non-profit organization's efforts to promote the first Aircraft Mechanic and those who followed in his footsteps. You should know someone who can read the English language and translate it into a form of communication that you could understand. From day one everyone who donated money to the AMTA has been identified and acknowledged. The twu international and Locals have each donated money towards the AMTA's efforts. So have companies and organizations and individuals. I use these donations to promote a craft & profession that deserves to be recognized. This is the same craft & profession you are to afraid to belong to since you cowar behind that alias.

If there is any Judas it would be you and those who hide and cowar behind an alias while helping erode a craft and profession that should be promoted. You talk a lot of nonsense which is expected from you. But please continue to spew lies it only shows the type of people who can support the twu.

Not a lie Ken and everyone on SAN knows it. How do you think I got my info?

The truth hurts doesn't it Ken. Your AMTA email blasts and the ARSA page both state clearly that you accepted money from them. Over $3,500. No lie Ken. And Ken, accepting money from AA Corp and the ARSA, the people who are outsourcing our profession is okay as long as you divulge where you got it? So you couldn't wait a bit longer to collect donations from people who really appreciate our profession? You compromised Charles Taylor's memory so you could run around saying, "Look what I did. I'm so awesome. I'm Ken and I did it! Me, Ken!" Thank you for finally admitting you are really in it for you.

Better talk to your 564 TWU reps about all the trouble you apparently did not get in. A few calls and emails was all it took to get the dirt on you. The ex-TWA guys also said you were quite disrespectful to them and filed a few complaints about you.

And your flip flopping on unions. Just read your own posts on this blog and when you were on the-mechanic.com, your stance on AMFA/AMP is on the internet. Are you that dense that it is easy to find out a ton about your positions in the age of Google?

Ken, alias or no alias, your history is on the worldwide web. You truly are laughable when it comes to your recollection of the past.

 

[swamt]

When the Company is going to cut 4,000 jobs and the TA reduces that to 2,000 that is "saving jobs."

Everything in the WN contract was negotiated by the IBT, including outsourcing, and extended by AMFA. The outsourcing language was degraded by AMFA when they negotiated a HC "cap" per aircraft and "negotiated" one additional line of in-house overhaul for outsourcing four lines to El Salvador. So AMFA maybe gained 80 to 90 jobs. WOW! That's huge! An airline that is nearly the same fleet size as AA and much more profitable caps AMTs at 2.75 per aircraft and AMFA calls that a win? AA will still be at more than 10 to 1 by the time the new fleets are online and the OSS cap is fully realized. 7 jobs per aircraft will have to be cut to get WN wages? Sweet! Make sure you tell all your card signers that they will probably not have a job in the future.

Yes WN Facilities mechanics make more than AA. And they have how many? Less than 500? 400? 300? Yeah, another big win for AMFA. Outsource more facilities work to get higher wages for few.

The main difference with WN and AA is how they got to where they are now. WN always was and still is a big outsourcer of work. AA has always been a big insourcer of work. The only way to get to the WN wages is to emulate the WN business model including their contract with AMTs. So why not tell people the truth Dave? Tell them that when they sign an AMFA card with the belief that WN wages are coming tell them how you intend to get there. Tell them that vast amounts of overhaul jobs will need to be outsourced. Tell them that PALM, CRO, and TAESL is going to be outsourced for sure. Tell them that only four to five lines of airframe overhaul will stay in-house. That only the 3,500 AMT positions will remain on the Line. And that means only those with pre-1990 will be here at best.

If you would just tell the truth on those points there would nothing to argue about. Dave don't you believe that if members pay dues they deserve to be represented? Then that means the union needs to fight for their jobs at the best wages possible. How can a union negotiate to give up dues paying members' jobs? Yes the TWU did agree to more outsourcing with the new CBA however we had two choices really, vote no and risk abrogation and huge job losses or vote yes on a deal that mitigated those job losses. In that way the TWU represented its members in the best way possible by getting an early out package which will reduce the number of involuntary job losses and reduces the number of jobs losses due to a lower outsourcing percentage. And you know what Dave, I know it is not a good deal. The best deal was the one the TWU had for us back in 2010 and the great flip flopping "I'm for change from within" leaders recommended we vote no. Well we know how that benefitted us.

Once again Overspeed; Get your facts straight prior to posting. Also, get alot more familier with our contract and how it became, as well as what took place when the teamsters were here and when AMFA has had sec 6 nego since the teamsters. Gee, you failed to mention that. And BTW; Even if the membership did extend a contract, who cares, it is the membership that wanted to do so, not AMFA. Yes we did extend during the downturn of the industry, but, I do believe we were the only airline getting raises, better bennies, bonuses, and top industry 401K match as well as profit sharing. This has happened thru-out the 2000 yrs. Can any other airline say the same?? Well hellllllll yes. Let's see, yup, Alaska (2nd highest paid, after SWA).
Overspeed, we really don't care about our current outsourcing being done. It's been this way from day 1. SWA has not left the relm of 65-75% outsourcing. They will always run lean and mean and that is fine with us, and they have already stated this again in the nego for the contract, so you will be looking at more money coming our way. Ask all the AA'ers coming into SWA how they feel when they will be at 45 bucks per hour, happily employed WITH job security. With AMFA it's what the membership wants not what AMFA wants. When will you guys get it thru your thick as sculls??? And all this in 6 years after start. Plus they will get more than the 45 at the end of our current contract nego's. What more do you want?

 

[whatajoke]

Hey High #### steel so you agree the twu goes backdoor to get deals. just like LBOII.
I will join the janitors union before I give another dime to Trans worthless Union.

 

[Overspeed]

Once again Overspeed; Get your facts straight prior to posting. Also, get alot more familier with our contract and how it became, as well as what took place when the teamsters were here and when AMFA has had sec 6 nego since the teamsters. Gee, you failed to mention that. And BTW; Even if the membership did extend a contract, who cares, it is the membership that wanted to do so, not AMFA. Yes we did extend during the downturn of the industry, but, I do believe we were the only airline getting raises, better bennies, bonuses, and top industry 401K match as well as profit sharing. This has happened thru-out the 2000 yrs. Can any other airline say the same?? Well hellllllll yes. Let's see, yup, Alaska (2nd highest paid, after SWA).
Overspeed, we really don't care about our current outsourcing being done. It's been this way from day 1. SWA has not left the relm of 65-75% outsourcing. They will always run lean and mean and that is fine with us, and they have already stated this again in the nego for the contract, so you will be looking at more money coming our way. Ask all the AA'ers coming into SWA how they feel when they will be at 45 bucks per hour, happily employed WITH job security. With AMFA it's what the membership wants not what AMFA wants. When will you guys get it thru your thick as sculls??? And all this in 6 years after start. Plus they will get more than the 45 at the end of our current contract nego's. What more do you want?

I do have my facts straight. AA currently has overhaul work in-house that under the AMFA/WN agreement we would not. So therefore if AMFA were to represent AA (hypothetically) how are we going to get WN wages with all that work in-house? Are you suggesting we have to run WN "lean and mean" (i.e. outsource 65% to 75%) in order to get WN wages?

And AA could not run like WN, because we have multiple fleet types, ER operations, first class, and we have IFE where you guys have one fleet type, possibly 737ER, no first class seats, and no IFE. Also, you guys fly point to point.

And wait, isn't the membership AMFA? No labor organization functions without its members even if it is dysfunctional.

So you are using AS as your example for AA. Great! AMFA rolled over on the OAK overhaul base closing. So now we know how AMFA at AA would look. AMFA gets certified, AA proceeds to violate the CBA scope clause, and then AMFA rolls over and blames it on the CBA they inherited.

You are a lost soul brother, a lost soul.

 

[TWU informer]

I do have my facts straight. AA currently has overhaul work in-house that under the AMFA/WN agreement we would not. So therefore if AMFA were to represent AA (hypothetically) how are we going to get WN wages with all that work in-house? Are you suggesting we have to run WN "lean and mean" (i.e. outsource 65% to 75%) in order to get WN wages?

And AA could not run like WN, because we have multiple fleet types, ER operations, first class, and we have IFE where you guys have one fleet type, possibly 737ER, no first class seats, and no IFE. Also, you guys fly point to point.

And wait, isn't the membership AMFA? No labor organization functions without its members even if it is dysfunctional.

So you are using AS as your example for AA. Great! AMFA rolled over on the OAK overhaul base closing. So now we know how AMFA at AA would look. AMFA gets certified, AA proceeds to violate the CBA scope clause, and then AMFA rolls over and blames it on the CBA they inherited.

You are a lost soul brother, a lost soul.

So now you admit that AA does not run like WN because of the business model, not because the TWU is the current union. That is not what your other post read like.

You stooges can keep prentending like you run this airline, but you must also take credit for the BK filing then too.

Every Airline that AMFA has been at has been a different result. And we will decide how the story of AMFA at AA will read soon enough. Not what happened at NWA, not what happened at UAL, not what happened at SWA, not what happened at Alaska. It will be what happened at AA.

The only "lost soul" is the one that keeps taking the same action over and ever and expecting a different result.
In the TWU case, the results are always negative. Even your most diehard supporters are now teamsters supporters or AMFA supporters and have zero support for the TWU.

Maybe if you guys would get out of the wannabe Airline management business and political campaign managers business, and instead step back into the union representation business, this industry would not keep suffering from YOUR failures.

Just answer one simple question, when 85% of your membership no longer supports the TWU, and the rest are just anti-union period, then what is your plan of strength to do anything positive and successful? Is this what you call unionism? In my opinion, the leaders of any organization that has caused that type of revolt and lack of support across the board would just support change themselves, that is if they were not self serving and the membership's future was really on their agenda.

Any Union without membership support is a dead an ineffective union. That is what the TWU is now. And yet you have in your mind that the train should still run the same track. Unreal!!!

 

[swamt]

I do have my facts straight. AA currently has overhaul work in-house that under the AMFA/WN agreement we would not. So therefore if AMFA were to represent AA (hypothetically) how are we going to get WN wages with all that work in-house? Are you suggesting we have to run WN "lean and mean" (i.e. outsource 65% to 75%) in order to get WN wages?

And AA could not run like WN, because we have multiple fleet types, ER operations, first class, and we have IFE where you guys have one fleet type, possibly 737ER, no first class seats, and no IFE. Also, you guys fly point to point.

And wait, isn't the membership AMFA? No labor organization functions without its members even if it is dysfunctional.

So you are using AS as your example for AA. Great! AMFA rolled over on the OAK overhaul base closing. So now we know how AMFA at AA would look. AMFA gets certified, AA proceeds to violate the CBA scope clause, and then AMFA rolls over and blames it on the CBA they inherited.

You are a lost soul brother, a lost soul.

How can you say that?? You don't have a clue how AMFA/AA would look. You are right about AA and SWA being 2 very different bus. However when comparing both co. farming out work, the way your explaining it, AA mechs should be at 60.00 per hour, as they farm out the less. With current contract just voted in they should be around 50.00 per hr as the co. just got permission to farm out 35% more, with no language to snap back to the norm for farming out as well as a snap back for wages. Didin't you guys learn from 2003?? "Never vote in consessions without snap back clause--NEVER!!" Plus, TWU cannot stop any further outsourcing done buy AA.

Since AMFA has came into SWA, the outsourcing has stayed the same percentile. And right now is lower than when the teamsters were here to directly to the purchase of AT. AMFA has not allowed any more outsourced lines of maint. then the teamsters allowed when they were here. This is fact sir. The Els maint was not added, it was removed from one of the US FBO's not added.

 

[Realityck]

SWAMT

Ask all the AA'ers coming into SWA how they feel when they will be at 45 bucks per hour, happily employed WITH job security.




You mean the "potential" 80 - 90 new-hires that's been mentioned in the blogs? Gosh, it sounds like a landslide.

Better hire more interviewers to handle the overflow crowd.

 

[unionguy1]

SWAMT

Ask all the AA'ers coming into SWA how they feel when they will be at 45 bucks per hour, happily employed WITH job security.




You mean the "potential" 80 - 90 new-hires that's been mentioned in the blogs? Gosh, it sounds like a landslide.

Better hire more interviewers to handle the overflow crowd.

How many are currently being hired by AA? How many are going to be shown the door at AA?

 

[AC Tynker]

So now you admit that AA does not run like WN because of the business model, not because the TWU is the current union. That is not what your other post read like.

You stooges can keep prentending like you run this airline, but you must also take credit for the BK filing then too.

Every Airline that AMFA has been at has been a different result. And we will decide how the story of AMFA at AA will read soon enough. Not what happened at NWA, not what happened at UAL, not what happened at SWA, not what happened at Alaska. It will be what happened at AA.

The only "lost soul" is the one that keeps taking the same action over and ever and expecting a different result.
In the TWU case, the results are always negative. Even your most diehard supporters are now teamsters supporters or AMFA supporters and have zero support for the TWU.

Maybe if you guys would get out of the wannabe Airline management business and political campaign managers business, and instead step back into the union representation business, this industry would not keep suffering from YOUR failures.

Just answer one simple question, when 85% of your membership no longer supports the TWU, and the rest are just anti-union period, then what is your plan of strength to do anything positive and successful? Is this what you call unionism? In my opinion, the leaders of any organization that has caused that type of revolt and lack of support across the board would just support change themselves, that is if they were not self serving and the membership's future was really on their agenda.

Any Union without membership support is a dead an ineffective union. That is what the TWU is now. And yet you have in your mind that the train should still run the same track. Unreal!!!

A nice sized chunk of that 85% has not seen the Union Hall in years and definitely have not put any effort into our Union for no other reason than they will not take time out of their day to involve themselves enough to make a meeting or speak up if they have an idea or suggestion or even a quality or ability that would benefit our plight. You hear every excuse in the world as to why they don't show involvement but it always comes back around to no effort on their part because there are too many things more important in their life. I have talked to a few of them is why I am sure of the reasoning. If a new Union were to get voted in you will have the same people with the same complaints in my opinion and somewhat the same level of membership commitment.

You are very confident AMFA will make it in and I am wondering if this is the same prediction power that I read on here with threads predicting what margin the TA/LBO2 would fail by ?