Twu Campaign For Nwa Flight Attendants

[Wings]

TWU announced their campaign this week to represent FAs at NWA (AFA announced their campaign on September 14,2005).

It is my understanding that TWU once represented AA FAs (they voted to leave and are now represented by their own independent union?) and TWU currently represents AA mechanics.

Could those of you at AA who are past and present TWU union members comment on TWU representation (pros and cons), as well as, their representation during your concessionary negotiations and voting on concessions?

If TWU once represented the AA FAs - we would also appreciate comments on why the FAs chose to leave TWU.

We have a lot on our plate here at NWA and need factual information regarding TWU representation before this comes to a vote. Former North Central/Republic FAs were represented by AFA prior to the NWO merger, so their union and it's representation is familiar to many in our group already. But, TWU is a big question ....

If any of you could post information regarding TWU and it's representation, it would help us make the right decision. Thanks for any input you can provide our group regarding this issue!

 

[FA Mikey]

TWU and AFA are looking at you and seeing $$. They have both proven worthless in representation.

 

[FA Mikey]

I asked that question of why we left the TWU from a couple friends a few tears ago. One of the people was instrumental in getting APFA going, she felt the lack of interest in proper representation was the main reason for leaving. Mechanics, bus drivers and rail workers had no idea of what this work group needed, short or long term. It was and still is a good ol boy network with little interest in representation of various work groups.

My other friend was the opposite and felt leaving at the time was a mistake. That the power and the numbers would be more beneficial to us. She has since seen, her theory as a miscalculation

AA, TWA and not sure if PAA as well joined the TWU after the ALSSA breakup.

TWU is looking for new members. Raiding someone else is cheaper than doing the real job of getting out and organizing new members in other industries. You guys would be the dues dollars to make up for the people who are dropping them and moving on.

You have a real union and one who will represent the interests of only the NWA flight attendants. Stick with it. Its your best defense for the long term.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The TWU is a mere shell of its former self. It was an OK union when I hired in, and the stews for the most part were satisfied. However, CR treated all employees pretty well, so any union could have done OK. As time went on, the Air Transport Division of the TWU became dominated by and responsive to Line Cargo, the largest number of dues payers. At the same time, AA management became less competent and more hard-nosed. Also both mechs and stews were not as easily led as line cargo, so we both became stepchildren. It was this unresponsiveness that led to the departure of the stews and the disaffection of the mechanics.

The stews were fairly independent and sophisticated, being based in major metropolitan areas, and saw the light early. The mechanics have a very large population based in Tulsa, who blindly support the TWU.

You should listen to present or former TWU members. I don't know how many present-day AA FAs remember the TWU era. Maybe they can be persuaded to speak here.

 

[Bob Owens]

TWU and AFA are looking at you and seeing $$. They have both proven worthless in representation.

[post="310532"][/post]​

And the APFA declined to show an interest in representing the NWA FAs.

Go with the AFA.

The TWU is worthless.

 

[FA Mikey]

And the APFA declined to show an interest in representing the NWA FAs.

Go with the AFA.

The TWU is worthless.

[post="310646"][/post]​

The APFA is not interested in representing anyone else. An independant union. We were built by and for the flight attendants at AA.

NWA crew members should stick with the PFAA. They need to get more involved and build on there own strengths. The AFA is as much a joke as the TWU.

 

[Bob Owens]

Wings,Oct 9 2005, 05:01 PM]
TWU announced their campaign this week to represent FAs at NWA (AFA announced their campaign on September 14,2005).

Going to the TWU would be the worst mistake you could make. You would be better off going non-union than going TWU.

It is my understanding that TWU once represented AA FAs (they voted to leave and are now represented by their own independent union?) and TWU currently represents AA mechanics.

Last year over 9600 mechanics signed cards calling for an election to remove the TWU. The company assisted in stoping the election by adding over 3000 names to the list. Many were people that never worked for the company, or were terminated, resigned or dead.

Could those of you at AA who are past and present TWU union members comment on TWU representation (pros and cons), as well as, their representation during your concessionary negotiations and voting on concessions?

Basically with the TWU the company gets whatever they want. TWU members at AA can not vote for the leaders who control the contract and Jim Little, the head of the TWU-ATD came from AA management.

The TWU pushed through the biggest concessions package the industry ever saw and that was outside of BK .

The TWU accepts over $3 million a year in illegal payments from American Airlines. These payments go directly to union officials. The case is currently under investigation by the Department of Labor. Do you really want crooks controlling your future who you cant even vote out?

The TWU will negotiate away your benifits and then try to sell you coverage though their insurance programs.


If TWU once represented the AA FAs - we would also appreciate comments on why the FAs chose to leave TWU.

We have a lot on our plate here at NWA and need factual information regarding TWU representation before this comes to a vote. Former North Central/Republic FAs were represented by AFA prior to the NWO merger, so their union and it's representation is familiar to many in our group already. But, TWU is a big question ....

You guys decided to leave the Teamsters. Well the TWU is less democratic than the Teamsters and only a fraction of the size of the Teamsters-in other words they have less resources to help you. Why would you leave a large Industrial union to go to a smaller one that is less powerful and more corrupt? You guys chose a craft union, maybe you should work on consolidating your craft with the AFA. The AFA is link with the CWA. The CWA is known as a militant union, they fight for their members.

The TWU is known as a company union, they screw their members.

The average TWU member only earns around $15/hour, or around the same as the average non-union worker and $2/hr less than the average union member.

The TWU has failed in several airline drives recently, they only want your dues which they need to fund the perks of International officers.

Despite the TWUs small size they pay their top International officers more than many unions much bigger than them.

The TWU spent over $2 million trying to organize Delta and they just got rejected by Continental.

There is good reason for this.

The TWU has led the industry in concessions for over 20 years.

Despite AAs phenominal growth pay and working conditions for TWU represented members has steadily deteriorated.

The TWU set many precedent setting "firsts" as far as concessions go.

If you are that fed up with the PFAA and do not want to return to the Teamsters then go for the AFA, at least then you can be sure that the person who controls your contract is elected by flight attendants. If you go to the TWU that person will be Jim Little, a man appointed by a bus driver from NYC who never worked as an FA. Jim Little a man who spent 6 years in management prior to going back on the floor in order to get into union office. If you go to the TWU you will have no control over your union or your future. Even if you elect people who represent you those people can and will be removed by Jim Little and the International if those leaders do what YOU want them to do instead of what the International wants them to do. According to the International, Local leaders take an oath to the International-not the members.

If any of you could post information regarding TWU and it's representation, it would help us make the right decision. Thanks for any input you can provide our group regarding this issue!

If you want more specific info PM me.

 

[Bob Owens]

FA Mikey,Oct 10 2005, 12:19 AM]
The APFA is not interested in representing anyone else. An independant union. We were built by and for the flight attendants at AA.

Its a dumb position to take.

Here is why.

What makes airline workers so vulnerable to concessions?

Our immobility. Our seniority and our fates being tied to the company in a way where company success guarantees us nothing but company failure is catastrophic.

Our ties to one company is our undoing.

Having a union thats the same way only makes that union more sympathic to the company in it struggle with competitors and makes that union look at other unions and their members as competitors.

This competition guarantees that we are eventually put in a race to the bottom especially when economic conditions drive consolidation of the industry.

A union that is tied to a single company instead of a craft or industry will put aside the welfare of its members to preserve the institution of the union and the company that hosts it.

In an industry with many companies the workers must be in one union to prevent being put in a race to the bottom.

One thing that should be clear is that what happened in this industry to its workers was not a series of isolated events but rather a deliberate effort to lower wages acroiss the industry. Something that the industry has cooperated on for many years through institutions such as the ATA and Aircon. Has everyone forgotten "Mutual aid" pacts?

NWA crew members should stick with the PFAA. They need to get more involved and build on there own strengths. The AFA is as much a joke as the TWU.

 

[TWU informer]

Go directly to the Union Organizers that were instrumental in the APFA campaign to leave the TWU.

Pat Gibbs and Susan French were the leaders of the movement to leave the TWU.

They are now Labor Attorneys.

Gibbs and French. 504 N Oak St Ste 4 Roanoke, TX 76262

Contact them and get the real scoop on the TWU and why the Flight Attendants left.

WARNING: If you favor the TWU, you do not want to talk with these ladies.

 

[Bob Owens]

WARNING: If you favor the TWU, you do not want to talk with these ladies.

[post="310658"][/post]​

Well you could pretty much say the same thing about talking to any AA TWU member, thats why the TWU lost at Delta and Continental. All the workers had to do was talk to TWU members from AA and they knew the TWU was not the way to go.

 

[FA Mikey]

FA Mikey,Oct 10 2005, 12:19 AM]
The APFA is not interested in representing anyone else. An independant union. We were built by and for the flight attendants at AA.

Its a dumb position to take.

Here is why.

What makes airline workers so vulnerable to concessions?

Our immobility. Our seniority and our fates being tied to the company in a way where company success guarantees us nothing but company failure is catastrophic.

Our ties to one company is our undoing.

Having a union thats the same way only makes that union more sympathic to the company in it struggle with competitors and makes that union look at other unions and their members as competitors.

This competition guarantees that we are eventually put in a race to the bottom especially when economic conditions drive consolidation of the industry.

A union that is tied to a single company instead of a craft or industry will put aside the welfare of its members to preserve the institution of the union and the company that hosts it.

In an industry with many companies the workers must be in one union to prevent being put in a race to the bottom.

One thing that should be clear is that what happened in this industry to its workers was not a series of isolated events but rather a deliberate effort to lower wages acroiss the industry. Something that the industry has cooperated on for many years through institutions such as the ATA and Aircon. Has everyone forgotten "Mutual aid" pacts?

NWA crew members should stick with the PFAA. They need to get more involved and build on there own strengths. The AFA is as much a joke as the TWU.

[post="310655"][/post]​

Thanks for your view. But having a union representing our specific interests has served us well. I am proud of what we have accomplished over and above, FA unions like AFA TWU and IBT.

Frankly I don't see the benefit of a craft union. How are the mechanics at NWA , better due to AMFA representation VS being with an large international or their own independent. I don't see any other AMFA airlines making waves to bring an end to the strike or to stop NWA. How could they, most CBA have no strike clauses.

Being an independent has served us very well, even through the jw dark years. AFA has time and again been more interested in building membership over negotiating the best deals for
there members. I think we will see UAL as an independent soon.

 

[Wings]

Wings,Oct 9 2005, 05:01 PM]
TWU announced their campaign this week to represent FAs at NWA (AFA announced their campaign on September 14,2005).

Going to the TWU would be the worst mistake you could make. You would be better off going non-union than going TWU.

It is my understanding that TWU once represented AA FAs (they voted to leave and are now represented by their own independent union?) and TWU currently represents AA mechanics.

Last year over 9600 mechanics signed cards calling for an election to remove the TWU. The company assisted in stoping the election by adding over 3000 names to the list. Many were people that never worked for the company, or were terminated, resigned or dead.

Could those of you at AA who are past and present TWU union members comment on TWU representation (pros and cons), as well as, their representation during your concessionary negotiations and voting on concessions?

Basically with the TWU the company gets whatever they want. TWU members at AA can not vote for the leaders who control the contract and Jim Little, the head of the TWU-ATD came from AA management.

The TWU pushed through the biggest concessions package the industry ever saw and that was outside of BK .

The TWU accepts over $3 million a year in illegal payments from American Airlines. These payments go directly to union officials. The case is currently under investigation by the Department of Labor. Do you really want crooks controlling your future who you cant even vote out?

The TWU will negotiate away your benifits and then try to sell you coverage though their insurance programs.
If TWU once represented the AA FAs - we would also appreciate comments on why the FAs chose to leave TWU.

We have a lot on our plate here at NWA and need factual information regarding TWU representation before this comes to a vote. Former North Central/Republic FAs were represented by AFA prior to the NWO merger, so their union and it's representation is familiar to many in our group already. But, TWU is a big question ....

You guys decided to leave the Teamsters. Well the TWU is less democratic than the Teamsters and only a fraction of the size of the Teamsters-in other words they have less resources to help you. Why would you leave a large Industrial union to go to a smaller one that is less powerful and more corrupt? You guys chose a craft union, maybe you should work on consolidating your craft with the AFA. The AFA is link with the CWA. The CWA is known as a militant union, they fight for their members.

The TWU is known as a company union, they screw their members.

The average TWU member only earns around $15/hour, or around the same as the average non-union worker and $2/hr less than the average union member.

The TWU has failed in several airline drives recently, they only want your dues which they need to fund the perks of International officers.

Despite the TWUs small size they pay their top International officers more than many unions much bigger than them.

The TWU spent over $2 million trying to organize Delta and they just got rejected by Continental.

There is good reason for this.

The TWU has led the industry in concessions for over 20 years.

Despite AAs phenominal growth pay and working conditions for TWU represented members has steadily deteriorated.

The TWU set many precedent setting "firsts" as far as concessions go.

If you are that fed up with the PFAA and do not want to return to the Teamsters then go for the AFA, at least then you can be sure that the person who controls your contract is elected by flight attendants. If you go to the TWU that person will be Jim Little, a man appointed by a bus driver from NYC who never worked as an FA. Jim Little a man who spent 6 years in management prior to going back on the floor in order to get into union office. If you go to the TWU you will have no control over your union or your future. Even if you elect people who represent you those people can and will be removed by Jim Little and the International if those leaders do what YOU want them to do instead of what the International wants them to do. According to the International, Local leaders take an oath to the International-not the members.

If any of you could post information regarding TWU and it's representation, it would help us make the right decision. Thanks for any input you can provide our group regarding this issue!

If you want more specific info PM me.

[post="310650"][/post]​

Bob:

Can you explain your comment about the TWU receiving over $3 million in illegal payments from AA and that the Department of Labor is investigating it?

Is this some sort of payment that TWU receives from EVERY airline when it represents one of it's labor groups?

 

[proAMFA]

The TWU was rejected by AA's flight attendents, AA's flight engineers and just recently 9,600 aircraft mechanics at AA. I understand the TWU has also been rejected recently at Delta and Contenintal. They remained the representative of the mechanics at American with the aid of the government and the company which counted people who never turned a wrench and people who never even worked at American. There were even dead people on the list! You can imagine how well that played out when AMFA supporters attempted to contact these people and verify if they worked as mechanics or in a related field.

The TWU is nothing more than a company union. The only way I would ever vote for the TWU is if they were the only union to pick from or they were running against the IAM. At least the TWU puts out policy letters asking their members not to work on jobs from a striking carrier. The IAM has no problems crossing a picket line and even stealing jobs from the mechanics. The TWU pretends to be a real union the IAM doesn't even pretend.

I would stay with the PFAA. The AFL-CIO affiliation the AFA more than likely crows about is falling apart and not really that much of an asset. A chunk of your union dues will go to the AFL-CIO. The AFL-CIO has sat on their thumbs while the amount of unionized workers in the public sector has declined and declined. The Change to Win Coalition is right about about wanting to explore different options.

Good Luck what ever you decide

 

[AMFAMAN]

Bob:

Can you explain your comment about the TWU receiving over $3 million in illegal payments from AA and that the Department of Labor is investigating it?

Is this some sort of payment that TWU receives from EVERY airline when it represents one of it's labor groups?

[post="310801"][/post]​

The twu receives over $3 million a year in union business paid, but I believe that is at an international level.
Not included in this is locals such as the DFW 565 that reportedly has a deal cut with local management that allows all officers to be paid by the company in exchange for waiving the time limits on grievances. At one time, 8 officers and reps were off the clock doing what ever but still got paid by AA instead of from the dues. Currently 7 are doing this for around a total of $500,000+ a year and various others throughout the year for another 100k. Since the company picks of the tab on the UB, the dues monies are invested in cigars, food, and beverages of their choice. Being that they collect 50k a month in dues and only have 70k in the bank after 6 years of that local being open, they must be some really good cigars.

BTW...The DOL could care less, just another bought and paid for department.

 

[AMFAMAN]

We have a lot on our plate here at NWA and need factual information regarding TWU representation before this comes to a vote. Former North Central/Republic FAs were represented by AFA prior to the NWO merger, so their union and it's representation is familiar to many in our group already. But, TWU is a big question ....

[post="310525"][/post]​

Not really sure why the need to change unions at this point, what good would it do. NWA has shown its hand for over a year now to every work group and the message was clear, "give us everything you got, or get out." Now, how do you think changing unions at this point is going to change anything when the NWA F/A's didn't stand up and fight with the mechanics when they had the chance to stop this crap. Do you think for a second the AFA is going to do anything different, afterall they still are talking CHAOS at UAL and 6 months later, their still working under the lower wages with no pension. Now if you like the company's proposal, I highly recommend going with the twu because you'll get that offer and most likely a lot worse after they cut their deals. If you want to do something useful, rally the troops to walk the hell out and stop the BS right now.