Twu Campaign For Nwa Flight Attendants

[jimntx]

FA Mikey,Oct 10 2005, 12:19 AM]
The APFA is not interested in representing anyone else. An independant union. We were built by and for the flight attendants at AA.

Its a dumb position to take.

Here is why.

What makes airline workers so vulnerable to concessions?

Our immobility. Our seniority and our fates being tied to the company in a way where company success guarantees us nothing but company failure is catastrophic.

Our ties to one company is our undoing.

Having a union thats the same way only makes that union more sympathic to the company in it struggle with competitors and makes that union look at other unions and their members as competitors.

This competition guarantees that we are eventually put in a race to the bottom especially when economic conditions drive consolidation of the industry.

A union that is tied to a single company instead of a craft or industry will put aside the welfare of its members to preserve the institution of the union and the company that hosts it.

Bob, I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the FAA has a LOT to do with the company rather than craft union approach for pilots and flight attendants. It doesn't matter how long one has been a flight attendant for Airline A. If you move to airline B, you must train from the beginning in the FAA-pre-approved training program for Airline B just as if you had been gas station attendant prior to going to Airline B.

Each of us has pre-approved emergency commands, etc that are unique to each airline. Those commands must be learned verbatim in order to pass the tests to become a flight attendant.

Also, because each airline can order a/c with features--safety-related and otherwise--that are different from other airlines, the training, especially the safety training, must be tailored to each airline's a/c configuration. For instance, because the former TW 75s have 4 sets of exit doors instead of 3 exit doors plus window exits like the AA 75s, and because the galleys are different, the FAA says there must be different training for each a/c.

There was some talk among the various f/a unions at the different companies awhile back that called for Federal certification of flight attendants--from a skill set standpoint, not just background checks--that would mean that if you qualify on a 757 at AA you would also be qualified on that a/c at any other U.S. airline that flies that equipment.

It came to naught because of seniority fears. Basically, most flight attendants were afraid that it would give other flight attendants TOO MUCH mobility. Part of the talking was DOH seniority just as in mergers and acquisitions (well, for most airline m&a's <_< ).

For instance, you might have a situation where UAL cuts benefits and pay for their f/as so a bunch of their senior flight attendants quit UAL and come to AA. This would "push down" flight attendants already at AA in the stack making it that much harder to hold good trips/get off reserve/gain whatever seniority-driven benefit you care to discuss.

I'm not saying either position is right or wrong, it is what it is.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob:

Can you explain your comment about the TWU receiving over $3 million in illegal payments from AA and that the Department of Labor is investigating it?

Is this some sort of payment that TWU receives from EVERY airline when it represents one of it's labor groups?

[post="310801"][/post]​

Sure.

I dont know what happens at other carriers but this is what happens at AA.

During the concessions talks of 2003 the company presented the neg committee a proposal called "The Vermont Plan".

The Vermont Plan was what the company said they would seek in BK if the TWU did not give them the concessions they wanted. This list was supposed to stay with the committee but it was released by Chuck Schalk-who was later removed from office by the International.

Basically the only thing on the Vermont PLan that the company did not get was a thing called "Company paid Union Business". Between the two committees (the committes were split, mechanics and related in one and everyone else in the other), the total was $3.1 million.

From at least 1999 the company has agreed to pay the salaries of Local Presidents and who ever else, depending on how co-operative Local leaders were with management, while these people performed Union business not related to the operation of the airline. This is illegal. As per the contract Union officers and others can go on "pay continuance" and recieve a paycheck from the company for doing union business but the union is supposed to pay them back the money plus around 10% to cover benifits. That was not the case. The company paid out $3.1 million and was not reimbursed by the union.These workers did not punch a time clock nor were they usually on company property.

In addition to the Local Presidents collecting salaries from the company I also have evidence that International officers also recieve paychecks from American Airlines. Clearly you can see a reason that should not be.

So the company basically put it to the TWU that unless they came back and gave the company everything they wanted that they would cut these payments off.

These union officials stood to lose anywhere from $80,000 to $50,000 in income that their members did not even know about. Income that was not reported on any DOL form. Income that they should not have recieved. Shortly after I initially posted this information on the Internet Sue Oliver, head of AA HR quit and went to Walmart, I believe.

Bobby Gless and Gary Yingst , both full time International Reps for the TWU claimed that they took paycuts too, just not as much. This is true because they only took a paycut on the checks they got from AA, not on the checks they got from the TWU. In addition to that Bobby Gless became a full time International Rep while I was Treasurer and I recieved the check off lists from the company and Gless' dues were submitted through AA payroll. The only way this is possible is if Gless was still recieving a paycheck from the company. I reported this information and more to the DOL who are investigating it. When I called them they said it was still under investigation. So far the only thing I've seen is that the DOL has decided to crack down on LM-10 and LM-30s. These forms document when company money is sent to or recieved by a union. Neither AA nor the TWU had any forms on file explaining the $3.1 million that the company put on the "Vermont Plan".

 

[Bob Owens]

The twu receives over $3 million a year in union business paid, but I believe that is at an international level.
Not included in this is locals such as the DFW 565 that reportedly has a deal cut with local management that allows all officers to be paid by the company in exchange for waiving the time limits on grievances. At one time, 8 officers and reps were off the clock doing what ever but still got paid by AA instead of from the dues. Currently 7 are doing this for around a total of $500,000+ a year and various others throughout the year for another 100k. Since the company picks of the tab on the UB, the dues monies are invested in cigars, food, and beverages of their choice. Being that they collect 50k a month in dues and only have 70k in the bank after 6 years of that local being open, they must be some really good cigars.

BTW...The DOL could care less, just another bought and paid for department.

[post="310829"][/post]​

Thats one of the reasons why these payments are illegal. The International has made most of the locals so small they are not financially viable. 30,000 members in 21 locals. Take out the biggest three and its around 18000 members split between 18 locals. That leaves the average local with only 1000 members. The only way some locals could have a full time President is if the company pays the salary. There is no way Local 565 could afford to have seven full time reps off the clock.

Basically its a bribe. Be cooperative with management and they will pay your salary without having to do your job. If you are un-cooperative you can count on punching that time clock, working shifts weekends and holidays again.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the FAA has a LOT to do with the company rather than craft union approach for pilots and flight attendants. It doesn't matter how long one has been a flight attendant for Airline A. If you move to airline B, you must train from the beginning in the FAA-pre-approved training program for Airline B just as if you had been gas station attendant prior to going to Airline B.

Each of us has pre-approved emergency commands, etc that are unique to each airline. Those commands must be learned verbatim in order to pass the tests to become a flight attendant.

Also, because each airline can order a/c with features--safety-related and otherwise--that are different from other airlines, the training, especially the safety training, must be tailored to each airline's a/c configuration. For instance, because the former TW 75s have 4 sets of exit doors instead of 3 exit doors plus window exits like the AA 75s, and because the galleys are different, the FAA says there must be different training for each a/c.

There was some talk among the various f/a unions at the different companies awhile back that called for Federal certification of flight attendants--from a skill set standpoint, not just background checks--that would mean that if you qualify on a 757 at AA you would also be qualified on that a/c at any other U.S. airline that flies that equipment.

It came to naught because of seniority fears. Basically, most flight attendants were afraid that it would give other flight attendants TOO MUCH mobility. Part of the talking was DOH seniority just as in mergers and acquisitions (well, for most airline m&a's <_< ).

For instance, you might have a situation where UAL cuts benefits and pay for their f/as so a bunch of their senior flight attendants quit UAL and come to AA. This would "push down" flight attendants already at AA in the stack making it that much harder to hold good trips/get off reserve/gain whatever seniority-driven benefit you care to discuss.

I'm not saying either position is right or wrong, it is what it is.

[post="310836"][/post]​

Its wrong. Just because qualifications become standardized it does not mean that seniority is portable, although portable seniority would greatly enhance the bargaining power of any workgroup. Look for the number one reason why concessionary packages were accepted-the fear of loss of seniority. Our fear of having to start over basically allowed the company to force us to do just that, on an economic level. Adjusted for inflation, I'm not making much more now than I was when I started.

The sad fact is the company's have their act together, when it comes to screwing us over, and we dont. We should have shut the whole thing down when the first contract was altered by the courts.

 

[AMFAMAN]

There is no way Local 565 could afford to have seven full time reps off the clock.

[post="310923"][/post]​

They get away with it through their deal with local management to have some punch in and then go to work at the local so the UB pay is not as high. So these guys just punch in and out everyday and never work on the property. But hey the company gets all they want in return and it's tolerated by the upper management folks because they get unlimited concessions.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

TWU announced their campaign this week to represent FAs at NWA (AFA announced their campaign on September 14,2005).

It is my understanding that TWU once represented AA FAs (they voted to leave and are now represented by their own independent union?) and TWU currently represents AA mechanics.

Could those of you at AA who are past and present TWU union members comment on TWU representation (pros and cons), as well as, their representation during your concessionary negotiations and voting on concessions?

If TWU once represented the AA FAs - we would also appreciate comments on why the FAs chose to leave TWU.

We have a lot on our plate here at NWA and need factual information regarding TWU representation before this comes to a vote. Former North Central/Republic FAs were represented by AFA prior to the NWO merger, so their union and it's representation is familiar to many in our group already. But, TWU is a big question ....

If any of you could post information regarding TWU and it's representation, it would help us make the right decision. Thanks for any input you can provide our group regarding this issue!

[post="310525"][/post]​

You should have walked out with the AMTs.
No union at Northwest is going to do any thing for any work group in front of a Bankruptcy judge.
The Judge will give you that fine line of either staying or quitting. But your going to get what the judge gives you union or not.
The AMTs were going to get screwed and you should have known that you were going to be next. And after you they will bend over the pilots.

As for the twu
Bob owens said it the best your better off with no union at all.

 

[Dan Cunningham]

To Whom It May Concern:

Another important issue to address here as to why one would not want the twu as their certified bargaining agent is that the twu tends to collude with the company by promoting FEL0NS, convicted DWI'S, POSSESORS OF DRUGS, and etc... to protect their hand picked "UNELECTED twu REPs" while maintaining their "ongoing collaborative" relationships with the company. I personally know of several twu INTERNATIONAL officers that have recently been convicted of DWIs, FELONIES, and DRUG POSSESSIONS and have received no adverse impact to their employment with the company.

Guess the fact that the twu uses these "Dregs" of society to secure their relationship with their LEAD BENEFACTOR, the company, is a solid indicator that one would choose not to employ the twu to steal their dues and wholesale their jobs!

Its all about Love!

Dan Cunningham

 

[Bob Owens]

They get away with it through their deal with local management to have some punch in and then go to work at the local so the UB pay is not as high. So these guys just punch in and out everyday and never work on the property. But hey the company gets all they want in return and it's tolerated by the upper management folks because they get unlimited concessions.

[post="310928"][/post]​

Then those guys are notb included in the $3.1 million.

 

[nbmcg01]

Then those guys are notb included in the $3.1 million.

[post="311099"][/post]​

I think it is IBT and AFA, not TWU

 

[FA Mikey]

I think it is IBT and AFA, not TWU

[post="311109"][/post]​

It is the TWU. The remaining AFL-CIO unions need money and members to keep the bloated empire running in DC. Now they will go after anyone they can to bring in the $$ they need to keep there own jobs.

Going after and trying to raid a union who is spending everything in these trying times working to protect their members jobs, pay and benefits against the onslaught of the GOP and big business. Its troubling but not surprising to see such self serving low class, low ball operators like AFA and TWU (AFL-CIO) try to screw the NWA flight attendants in order to pad there own numbers and war chest.

 

[Bob Owens]

It is the TWU. The remaining AFL-CIO unions need money and members to keep the bloated empire running in DC. Now they will go after anyone they can to bring in the $$ they need to keep there own jobs.

Going after and trying to raid a union who is spending everything in these trying times working to protect their members jobs, pay and benefits against the onslaught of the GOP and big business. Its troubling but not surprising to see such self serving low class, low ball operators like AFA and TWU (AFL-CIO) try to screw the NWA flight attendants in order to pad there own numbers and war chest.

[post="311111"][/post]​

War Chest?

The TWU has no war chest.

The TWU does not have a strike fund because they dont believe in strikes. They would rather accept any concession as long as it does not interfere with the dues flow.

What do they use those dues for?

Just look at the LM-2s and the IRS 5500 for a clue.

The TWU pays themselves like corporate CEOs. They need a lot of dues to support those salaries, especially when you consider that dues per member are declining. In fact the average TWU member earns around $2 less per hour than the average union member overall. If you go into any industry with multiple unions where the TWU is present the TWU holds the bottom union rates for that industry.

The TWU spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year buying cars for International officers who use those cars almost exclusively for personal use.

The TWU spends those dues on a very generous pension that they provide for themselves. They have a large multiplier and the highest year is the other component, then they get a 5% increase EVERY year-to protect the retirees against inflation, cant expect them to tighten their belts like they expect the members to do.

 

[FA Mikey]

War Chest?

The TWU has no war chest.

[post="311138"][/post]​

In that I mean their own grubby pockets.

 

[Bagbelt]

Not being naive, but most of the people I've ever known in the business have got a DWI on their record. It's a misdeamenor traffic violation and if the co. finds out you don't have a drivers license- you're gone. It's a stretch comparing that to a drug felony.

 

[local 12 proud]

Not being naive, but most of the people I've ever known in the business have got a DWI on their record. It's a misdeamenor traffic violation and if the co. finds out you don't have a drivers license- you're gone. It's a stretch comparing that to a drug felony.

[post="311232"][/post]​

:unsure: WOW that many huh? Ive known three people in my entire life who got DWI's all were repeat offenders. one served three years of a fifteen year sentence for vehicular homocide, one who met up with a guard rail rolling his truck and was not wearing a seat belt, he's dead BTW, and the last who lost his wife , kids, house and is probably on the liver donor list by now. YEA thats no big deal just a DWI no drugs involved.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Not being naive, but most of the people I've ever known in the business have got a DWI on their record. It's a misdeamenor traffic violation and if the co. finds out you don't have a drivers license- you're gone. It's a stretch comparing that to a drug felony.

[post="311232"][/post]​

I can think of only four. Two killed people, and one hit a bicyclist who lived, barely.

Pretty serious stuff, I should think.

.