Twu Lies - On Video

[RV4]

Dave, I suppose your also saying that Dell, before AMFA, was not involved in any union that according to you, had communist ties? Of course not, and also you expect us to beleive he and AMFA can walk on water, AMFA is WHOLLIER THAN THO

Correction,

Delle, before AMFA was a Mechanic at American Airlines, thus a member of the TWU.

He and several other professionals had enough vision to see the TWU problem.

Yes Delle was also a member of the Communist Plaqued TWU. That is exaclty why AMFA was founded in the first place! What are you doing about the problem?

Case Closed, next subject!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

QUOTE (RV4 @ Oct 5 2003, 09:26 AM)
.


Dave, I suppose your also saying that Dell, before AMFA, was not involved in any union that according to you, had communist ties? Of course not, and also you expect us to beleive he and AMFA can walk on water, AMFA is WHOLLIER THAN THO

MCI afl-cio, your above post is typical of grasping for straws from the twu. Like you, me and the man/woman next to us who works on a/c for AA MUST belong to the twu. The same was in effect back when Dell was with AA. Are you blaming him, or us, for that? That is the exact reason Dell started AMFA. NO ONE said AMFA is "whollier than thou". What I am saying and thousands of other skilled professional AMTs are saying is that AMFA is democratic and there is accountability for EVEY elected member for their actions. AMFA can not walk on water. But they can sure swim. The twu/iam/ibt just sink like a rock.

 

[Steve Connell]

AMFA can not walk on water. But they can sure swim.and they should..or drown..their record isn't that great..or I missed something..I know..show me what I missed like it's a news flash...you post the same rhetoric each and every day...and your point is what? Your assumptions are vivid...but your outcome lacks content.

 

[TonyB]

j7915 does make a valid point. The situation today is pretty much like it was back in the 1930's. Robber Barons like Rockefellar, J.P. Morgan, etc. had their foot on the neck of the working class. It's a miracle that this country did not have a revolution. FDR and his New Dealers with all their government programs saw to it that this revolution did not occur. Lyndon Johnson further pacified the masses with his "Great Society" programs.
The main difference between today and the 1930's is that we as a society are asleep. We are allowed to borrow freely so we go into heavy debt. With all this debt we need to keep a job to pay for it. Make a little too much noise and you may not have a job in some instances and then you're out on the street. Corporate America with the help of the media has greatly pacified the masses with sports. NFL, NBA, MLB, NASCAR you name it, much like the Romans were pacified with Gladiators.A great ally of the corporate elite that runs this country in pacifying the working class is the mighty AFL-CIO. In doing so they keep the politicians and big business happy. They could care less about the working class. They are in it for themselves.
Samuel Gompers, George Meany, Lane Kirkland and now John Sweeney have worked hand in hand with corporate America to keep any radicals in check and any real unionism dead.. Ever wonder why there are no European style general nation-wide strikes in this country?
I have news for you j7915. Karl Marx is dead over 100 years but the communists are still alive and well. Americans, however are too busy rading the sports section to notice or care.

 

[Hackman]

If AMFA is swimming steve, then the twu is surely drowning as if they had a lead weight around there neck.

You surely have missing something steve, you should have been in Tulsa for the meetings steve, you could have fit right in, and maybe even gotten paid! They needed some "real" rat muscle at the noon meeting, you could have been somebody.

You want to talk about records, look at your own iam (whats left), now there is a bright spot, right steve?

Hope you enjoyed you short lived pay raise that AMFA negotiated for you before the twu caved and set a new low for the industry.

I guess you'll have to return back to the management ranks and recoup some of that loss.

Your the new Gold Standard for the afl-cio tough guys. Your forethought into taking on the AMFA came up a little short of the mark, but hey, you can't be a winner all the time.

Enjoy your impending retirement.

 

[Raptor]

AMFA can not walk on water. But they can sure swim.and they should..or drown..their record isn't that great..or I missed something..I know..show me what I missed like it's a news flash...you post the same rhetoric each and every day...and your point is what? Your assumptions are vivid...but your outcome lacks content.

AMFA record is quite good compared to the TWU have you seen the pay and benefits of Northwest lately much better than AAs and as far as layoffs go they have about the same as we do, the big difference is that the people laid off at Northwest will probably be coming back with back pay the laid off people at AA are just gone, there only chance of coming back is when and if AA needs them again.

AMFA NOW 50.6% and climbing

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

.

Ken, Nice post, as yours always are.



What I am saying and thousands of other skilled professional AMTs are saying is that AMFA is democratic and there is accountability for EVEY elected member for their actions.


Ken, I too, agree with the democratic process, only difference is in views, yours and mine. To you the democratic process only includes the AMT mechanic. My views include all, no matter what work force or classification, skill, I also beleive in accountability for all. And to receive and distribute democracy for all, and accountablity, we have to work for all, together
I read another post earlier asking that we in the TWU should be able to hold our elected officials accountable, I do not support AMFA, but I do agree with this post. That is the democratic process,not AMFA's process. If we need to change language in the TWU constitution, so be it, lets do it. Dont say it cant be done.
If enough members would make a voice to the local and to the international we will be heard, It takes more than a hand full from each local.
You have said numerous times you support your local, Im glad for you Ken, I support my local also, tho Im not proud of their accomplishments, I will support them.
I read your post also stating your the director of AMT? Please tell me Ken, I mean this sincerely, what is AMTA? a branch of AMFA?

 

[Buck]

If you believe in the democratic process, then lets have an election.......

 

[Boomer]

The video is a big hit locally.

Several Members have bought blank tapes and made their own copies to ship throughout the system using contacts they have had for years. The response has been overwhelming.

The number of TWU 514 Union Officers being paid to be at the meeting is as big a hit as Luby being tossed out.

I encourage anyone interested to obtain a copy and view it. When you are finished, either give it to someone else, ask someone that may be in doubt to come over and watch it with you, or make copies and send them to those you know.

If the TWU wants to clarify anyhting they feel has been mis-represented in the tape, all they have to do is pay their half for the Brady Theatre and invite the TUL base in for the debate.

 

[AMFAMAN]

If the TWU wants to clarify anyhting they feel has been mis-represented in the tape, all they have to do is pay their half for the Brady Theatre and invite the TUL base in for the debate.

The tape is a big hit here also. I look forward to the Brady Theater debate, maybe our friend Kirk will lead the way for the twu.

 

[Dan Cunningham]

To: Steve Connell,

As I have publicly stated before the twu international, i.e.; Sunny Hall, Jim "Chicken" Little, John "Sold Out Pan Am with my Drinkin Buddy, Marty Shagrue" Kerrigan, and John "Crossin Legal Picket Lines" Orlando recruit only Punks, Drunks and Cowards to do their leg work at attempting to halt what truly is the most exciting labor event at AA since the Flight Attendants left the twu in 1976. I only wish you, Steve, could pull yourself out of the fog you currently exist in and state fact, not your own contrived fiction filled bs. I know that is too much to expect from someone that spell throws as "throughs."

Your illiteracy forces me to concede I have missed at least one other grouping of peoples recruited by the twu international, functional illiterates, idiots and morons. As a disclaimer, I am not grouping all funtional illiterates, idiots and morons to the level of the twu supporting functional illiterates, idiots and morons for I think those twu supportin IIMs take the cake for their actions.

In other words Steve, I believe you should have gone by your given name "EARL" for Steve sounds a bit more sophisticated and you sir are very base in your character make up. Your assertions that I stated AMFA would dovetail your seniority is a common lie. However, and I have witnesses that will corroborate this testimony, I did state that you and many dumb ass iam supporters could have voted AMFA on the property when Ozark Merged and instead you dicked yourselves out of any future chance of dovetailing during any mergers. That is truly what I stated!

Many people that know me throughout the system know that I am savvy enough to know that contractual terms govern seniority and that Sunny Hall meeting in Washington, D.C. the day of the aa/twa merger announcement with one Tommy Boy Buffenbarger ironed out seniority on the spot. Kasher was just the tool to do the job. Your very SIMPLE view as evidenced on this board lets the system know a lot about BRICKS and nothing more!

Take Care, Funny Guy

Dan Cunningham

 

[Bob Owens]

j7915 does make a valid point. The situation today is pretty much like it was back in the 1930's. Robber Barons like Rockefellar, J.P. Morgan, etc. had their foot on the neck of the working class. It's a miracle that this country did not have a revolution. FDR and his New Dealers with all their government programs saw to it that this revolution did not occur. Lyndon Johnson further pacified the masses with his "Great Society" programs.
The main difference between today and the 1930's is that we as a society are asleep. We are allowed to borrow freely so we go into heavy debt. With all this debt we need to keep a job to pay for it. Make a little too much noise and you may not have a job in some instances and then you're out on the street. Corporate America with the help of the media has greatly pacified the masses with sports. NFL, NBA, MLB, NASCAR you name it, much like the Romans were pacified with Gladiators.A great ally of the corporate elite that runs this country in pacifying the working class is the mighty AFL-CIO. In doing so they keep the politicians and big business happy. They could care less about the working class. They are in it for themselves.
Samuel Gompers, George Meany, Lane Kirkland and now John Sweeney have worked hand in hand with corporate America to keep any radicals in check and any real unionism dead.. Ever wonder why there are no European style general nation-wide strikes in this country?
I have news for you j7915. Karl Marx is dead over 100 years but the communists are still alive and well. Americans, however are too busy rading the sports section to notice or care.

Tony B;

You are confusing ideologies again. However with the way we were educated in this country its not suprising that you and many others make the same assumptions.

First of al ALL forms of government are a means by which freedoms are supressed. This is not always a bad thing since society, if it is going to function must curb certain types of destructive behavior (violent, carnal etc)

Thomas Paine said over two hundred years ago-before Karl Marx was born- "Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness;the former promotes our hapiness positively by uniting our affections. the later negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the other a punisher. Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil,,,,,"

To imply that the Robber Barons were Communists is absurd. To claim that they robbed people of the freedom to enjoy their lives because they alone possessed the means of production and therefore lowered the status of others to serfdom is more but of course not entirely accurate. Communists may be alive and well however they are few and far between and most certainly do not pose a threat to the working people of this country, if anything they are unquestionably, if misguided, advocates for working people. The threat we face is much more familiar, and it is a Capitalist face. However like anything else one should not paint with a broad brush as many Capitalists are aware of the dangers that some Capitalists pose to the freedoms of us all.

Capitalism does not equal freedom, it can be just as oppressive as Dictatorial Communism. The benifits of Capitalism to society as a whole rely on perpetual competition, however the object of competition to to come to a conclusion-to win. The only way to maintain perpetual competition is for the government to maintain controls to prevent one party from gaining a competative edge. The trend over the last twenty years has been to allow competition to come to a conclusion and allow the stronger competitors to make the rules to suit themselves.

Democracy is the key to Freedom. True Democracy can only exist with an informed electorate. This can only happen with a transparent and accountable government.

On the one hand you praise the actions of Euorpean unions, who are in fact unabashed Socialists. They dont try to hide it. Yet you claim that Sonny Hall, and the Robber Barons are Communists. They act more like Fascists, not Communists or Socialists. In fact the Fascists of Germany recieved a lot of support from Capitalists even here in America, until they realized that Hitler posed a threat to their power base. If I remember from reading about it Ford was an early backer of the facsists.

This country did in a way have a Revolution, a very subdued one but still there were radical changes. It was a democratic revolution. While modern ultra right wing critics of FDR blast him as a Socialist, due to the fact that like his cousin before him (Teddy Roosevelt) he took and adopted populist and socialist platform issues as his own, more moderate historians realize that FDR in fact saved Capitalism. The fact is that the system of lassaize faire has and was failing soiciety as a whole. The Communist Party was the fastest growing party in the country, years later many of the young niave idealists who signed on would be persecuted during the McCarthy inquisitions.

In a way our situation with our union is like a mini-government. A government that has become corrupt , dicatorial, self serving and un-democratic. While we suffer they continue to rob us of our rights. They hide behind doing it "for our own good". However they of course refuse to "share the pain".

With this corrpt organization or mini-government, we find that as our discontent with their anti-democratic and unproductive ways grows they react just like some bannana republic. They stifle criticism and enact harsh measures which in turn lead to even more resentment from the masses(members). Instead of correcting the problem they go after the things that the problems create.

Over the last year we have seen more of our rights stripped away.
- We never had the right to choose the ATD Director who has complete control over our agreement.
-We never had the right to vote for the President of the Union who appoints the ATD Director.
-We had the right, per our Constitution, to vote on changes to our contract however Sonny Hall was able to make this an uneforcable right and gain the ability to interpret the Constitution as he sees fit.
-We no longer even have the right to choose leaders of our own at the Local level as the International reserves the right to remove those officials who say things that they do not agree with.

So basically the International has made itself a Dictatorial body that is isolated from and unaccountable to the members. Like other despots in history Sonny Hall no longer even pretends, other than his monthly column in his propagada paper to be a "man of the people". This was displayed by his lack of attendance at the Labor Day parade, even Stalin would show up to watch the annual May Day Parade. In fact there was NO Representative from the International present on the podium for this highly symbolic display of NY Labor.

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the "leaders" if you could call them that, resent the members. From Jim Little saying that the members "dont really care" to Mike Bakalas saying that all of the problems of todays labor movement is not the fault of the leaders but of the members who are not willing to fight, like they did, to Sonny Halls telling officers at the Meany School what a "thankless job" they have taken on. Over and over again the message is subtle yet consistant-the members are not worth it, get what you can out of this for yourself and if you work with us we can make it happen for you like it has for us.

The question that lies before us is not whether or not its time for a Revolution against this oppressive mini-government but what is the best route. Is there a means by which our institution can be changed from within? If there is would the reformed Institution still leave us just as vulnerable to the 10 year crisis cycles that have devastated our careers over the last 20 years? Or, should we seek a new way, where we join with our fellow mechanics throughout the entire industry, so that we are no longer left isolated and vulnerable by corporate lines that are reinforced by organizational lines?

The current structure of unionism in our industry makes the bond between company and union more important than the bond between union and member. This bond is reinforced by checkoff, where the union recieves a check from the company instead of directly from the members. Initailly Check-off was a huge gain for both the members and the union, however now it simply allows the leaders the right to disregard our needs and wishes since the money comes in automatically whether they service us or not. Over time, the unions have come to the conclusion that they work for the company, even though they of course would never admit it, their actions however make it very clear who their boss is, as with everyone else-the one who writes the checks. Check-off allows the company to write their check with our money.

One way to fight this is to go to Hand Pay. Going to Hand Pay reminds the International who they work for. While this is cumbersome for the union and the Local it is one of the few avenues of resistance to the junta's policies left to the members. It is one of the few rights that Sonny Hall has not taken away. And it is one of the few things that may drive more Local Leaders to back off supporting Sonny Halls dictatorial policies.

This act supports change. It sends a clear message to the International that they work for us, not the other way around. So let them come to you and say pay-up, instead of thanking American Airlines for our money. It also puts us in a better position to wage a "dues strike" in the future if we need to.

Hand Pay Now!

 

[TonyB]

"j7915 does make a valid point. The situation today is pretty much like it was back in the 1930's. Robber Barons like Rockefellar, J.P. Morgan, etc. had their foot on the neck of the working class. It's a miracle that this country did not have a revolution. FDR and his New Dealers with all their government programs saw to it that this revolution did not occur. Lyndon Johnson further pacified the masses with his "Great Society" programs."

Gee Bob, I think you need to get out out your reading glasses. Where do I state that the Rockefeller etal where communists? To say that they were would not only be absurd but it would be asinine!
If you look again you will see that I am stating why the communists/socialists made so many gains in the early 20th century. The founding principles of this country were hijacked by the greedy capitalists of the time, much like things are today. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The reaction to all the greed and corruption was mass upheaval in this country which almost caused a revolution. Much of this furor was quelled when Woodrow Wilson got us into World War 1. American boys were sent to die by the score under the guise of "making the world safe for Democracy." In reality it was to prevent the collapse of the Bank of England and to protect J.P. Morgan's investments. Anyone who challenged the status quo was deemed unpatriotic (Eugene V.Debs comes to mind). Sound familiar? When the Great Depression came along there was turmoil again. This time FDR and the New Deal created all kinds of government programs and alphabet agencies to appease and opiate the masses. Then came World War 2. Since we had broken all the Japanese naval and diplomatic codes we knew they were comming. FDR wanted to bail out England again but Americans were in an isolationist mood. After the blood bath that was World War 1 we would have nothing to do with an European war. Once we entered the war, patriotic fervor took over and all social issues were again pushed to the back burner.
In my opinion, capitalism causes socialism/communism. In fact, the same money cabal who ran Wall Street financed the Bolshevik Revolution. That is a whole other story and no doubt you would deem it conspiracy theory bunk, since it is you who still believe the crap that we were told by our educators.
You claim that democratic principles are the key to freedom. Yet pure democracy is no more than mob rule. That is why this nation was founded as a Republic.
Any way Bob, I believe in real unionism, not the Mickey Mouse crap that we have in this country. If it means taking a cue from the European Socialists then so be it.

"While there is a lower class, I am in it; while
there is a criminal element, I am of it;
and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free
Eugene V. Debs

 

[TonyB]

Words of wisdom.
“Too long have the workers of the world waited for some Moses to lead them out of bondage. I would not lead you out if I could; for if you could be led out, you could be led back again. I would have you make up your minds there is nothing that you cannot do for yourselves.â€￾
Eugene V. Debs, from an address on Industrial Unionism delivered at Grand Central Palace. New York City, Dec. 18,1905.

 

[TonyB]

By the way Bob, next time you misquote me I'll have to bash you over the head with your shillelagh