When does a union have the right to supercede the first amendment, for any reason???
"you'll have to talk to the lawyers on that man"
"you'll have to talk to the lawyers on that man"
Twu Lies
- Thread starter Bob Owens
- Start date
I don't believe they do either Rusty unless they have a different opinion than me. Than that first Amendment thing goes right out the window. This is the Twscrew not a court of law bud now shut up and do what your union tells you. If not we will kick your ass , break your windows , kick you out of the union, Than I will sleep with your girl while your working your second or third job. Did I mention I will step on your neck and Finnish you off. The Board has determined that the single craft or class of Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance, and Fleet Service Personnel is no longer a proper craft or class at either American or TWA-LLC. The proper crafts or classes are Mechanics and Related Employees, and Fleet Service Employees. 29 NMB 240, 251 NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!
Nightwatch
Veteran
- Jun 8, 2004
- 888
- 2
Let's see there Nuggett...AMFA places 38% (UNGRIEVABLE) cap on outsourcing at NWA...outsourcing immediately soars to over 40%..thx Delle....there's one for ya boot licking dummie.
Nightwatch said:
PROVE IT!! EWE TWU SHEEP ARE ALL THE SAME. YOU JUST PUT OUT WHAT THE HERDER TELLS EWE TO SAY. SO WHY DON'T EWE GO SNIFF THE DOMINATE RAMS BUTT AND GET TOMORROWS POSTING. :bleh: :bleh: :bleh:
Nightwatch
Veteran
- Jun 8, 2004
- 888
- 2
Radman said:
My my..did I hit an amfa nerve location? I do not blame you for not wanting to admit to amfa ineptness...it's the amfaway...and you are a follower...Now, go tell delle what a big man he is....HAHAHA
- Thread Starter
- #51
Nightwatch said:
Its funny that you should use the word that the Teamsters used to describe the TWU-Inept.
Want to see how good the TWU is? Just look at the graph of mechanics pay vs CPI. Look for who gets the least vacation time in the Industry. Who has been paying for medical and retiree health benifits for over 15 years. Who gets straight time pay for training beyond an 8 hour shift. Who leads the industry in concessions.
This thread was started to discuss the lies of the TWU. So far we have not had any challenge from the TWU as to the validity of those charges. Perhaps because they know that they are true.
- Thread Starter
- #52
LIE # 1.
"The members have the right to vote on contracts, its written in the Constitution."
Despite the language we do not have this right. The TWU argued in court, citing other cases where Unions were allowed to impose contracts without a vote, that the language guaranteeing our right to vote is open to interpretation by the International. The TWU testified that that language only applies to completely new contracts, not amended contracts. Since under the RLA contracts are only amendable under most conditions then as long as the members who were on payroll back in the 1940s got to vote on the first "completely new" contract, the TWU has satified that Constitutional right to "the members".
LIE #2
"You dont need to vote for the International Officers who represent the TWU to the company because the Presidents council has control over everything they do."
The fact is that the Presidents council has no Constitutional, enforcable decision making powers. Basically its a fascade, it exists to make the members, and many Presidents, feel that they really have some input. Over the years the International has gotten very good at ensuring that the council eventually comes to the conclusion that the International desires. However back in 1999 the International did not get its way. The International wanted seperate Locals. The Presidents could not be swayed, so Sonny imposed it on them. I'm told that ORD President Joy Calloway cursed out Sonny Hall. In retaliation Sonny Hall illegally interfered in the next election at ORD and may have had a hand in the termination of another ORD Local union official. They sued, and both reportedly walked away with out of court settlements.
Sonnys vindicive heavy handedness has cost Union members money. Depite losing lawsuits, being convicted of violating members rights and costly out of court settlements Sonny has not changed his ways. He is being sued for various transgressions against the former militant Local 501 board. Some of whom were terminated during an election in what appears to be a case of company-union collusion to rid Sonny Hall of rivals. Several of those victimized by this apparent conspiracy ran against Sonny Hall in the last Convention. I nominated one of thoose officers, Jack Sullivan to run against John Kerrigan who also had a part in my removal.
Faced with the examples of Joy Calloway, Local 234(where Sonny interfered with elections), the officers of Local 501, and the officers of Local 562, all vocal opponents of Sonny Hall, who were subsequently removed by Sonny Hall, any President who opposes Sonny does so at the risk of at the very least removal from office, a significant pay cut and possible termination from the company.
The fact is the Presidents have no power. According to the International, their oath dictates that all local officers must put the Internationals interests ahead of the members. This was clearly stated by the International in the document they sent to me describing their reasons for removing me from office.
LIE #3
"The Locals are autonomous."
While they may be "on their own" they most certainly are not self governing or independant of the laws of another. The laws of the local, in other words the bylaws are subject to the approval of the International. If you can not make your own rules, if another body determines what rules you can have, then you are not autonomous.
The Constitution of the TWU clearly gives the International total control over the Local Union. From approving its bylawsa and reviewing its finances to control over its charter. It even gives them the right to eliminate the entire Local. Clearly with such broad powers over them Local unions are not "autonomous". The International simply allows them enough of a leash so long as they dont do anything to annoy the International. Any Local that dares to annoy the International shall soon experience how short the International can make that leash.
Several of the previuos examples, Joy Calloway, Local 501 and Local 562 all reveal how "autonomous" the locals are. Once again, this brings us back to Sonny Halls interpretation of the Oath of office.An oath that according to the International pledges Loyalty to the International ahead of the members.
Lie #4 from the TWU;
"The membership is the Ultimate authority"
This is a lie. The Constition is clear that the members are only the supreme authority of the local "at meetings", but then goes on to say that the Local E board-who by virtue of the Oath of office have been determined to be subordinate to the International- "shall have the power and authority to administer the affairs of the Local Union.
If you read the TWU Constitution it makes clear over and over again that the International is supreme over all Locals. Who is in charge of the International? Its not the members. Article VIII, Section 2 states "the International Executive Council shall be the supreme authority in the International Union (pg 16).
In fact when you read the TWU Constitution its very clear that the power of the Union is confined to the top levels of the union, none of which face electoral accountability from the members. While the Constition clearly designates what powers the International has it is silent as to what powers the members actually have other than at the Local level. As stated already the locals are subordinate to the International. Article XIII(pg 34) makes clear that the membership is subordinate to the International union. With the TWU we are paying to have a second boss. All you need to do is read the Article.
Sect 1 "Any person seeking membership shall be required,,,"
Sect 2 "An applicant shall not be accepted for membership until,,,"
Sect 3 "Any member who fails to pay his/her dues before the 15th day of each month shall be in bad standing."
Sect 4 "Any member in bad standing shall be inelligible to attend union meetings,,,"
Sect 5 "It shall be the duty of each member to pay,,,"
Sect 6-Grants the international power to extendtime limitations for the payment of fines.
Sect 7 "A member shall be required to advise the Local Financial secretary,,,,"
The remaining sections cover transfers, layoffs etc, none of them grant the membership rights to have input into the affairs or direction of the TWU.
It is clear from this article, in fact from the whole document that the membership has duties and obligations to the TWU but the TWU has no duties or obligations to the members.
In direct contrast to Article XIII, which states what the members shall do for the TWU, Articles V through X apply specific and broad powers to the International.After reading the Constitution it is clear that the TWU is not a membership run organization. The Constitution only applies duties and responsibilities upon the members to finance and support the organization but does not grant them any rights to 'participate" in determining the direction of the organization.
So while the Constitution is clear, when taken as a whole, that the membership is not in control, proponents of the TWU, obviously with the hope that no one will actually research the facts behind the statement, claim over and over again that the "membership is the ultimate authority". As long as people actually believe this, its easy for the next TWU lie that "its all the memberships fault" to be believed.
Still no challenge from the TWU supporters. Maybe because they know that what I've said is true and they can think of any new lies to make anyone believe the old lies again!
"The members have the right to vote on contracts, its written in the Constitution."
Despite the language we do not have this right. The TWU argued in court, citing other cases where Unions were allowed to impose contracts without a vote, that the language guaranteeing our right to vote is open to interpretation by the International. The TWU testified that that language only applies to completely new contracts, not amended contracts. Since under the RLA contracts are only amendable under most conditions then as long as the members who were on payroll back in the 1940s got to vote on the first "completely new" contract, the TWU has satified that Constitutional right to "the members".
LIE #2
"You dont need to vote for the International Officers who represent the TWU to the company because the Presidents council has control over everything they do."
The fact is that the Presidents council has no Constitutional, enforcable decision making powers. Basically its a fascade, it exists to make the members, and many Presidents, feel that they really have some input. Over the years the International has gotten very good at ensuring that the council eventually comes to the conclusion that the International desires. However back in 1999 the International did not get its way. The International wanted seperate Locals. The Presidents could not be swayed, so Sonny imposed it on them. I'm told that ORD President Joy Calloway cursed out Sonny Hall. In retaliation Sonny Hall illegally interfered in the next election at ORD and may have had a hand in the termination of another ORD Local union official. They sued, and both reportedly walked away with out of court settlements.
Sonnys vindicive heavy handedness has cost Union members money. Depite losing lawsuits, being convicted of violating members rights and costly out of court settlements Sonny has not changed his ways. He is being sued for various transgressions against the former militant Local 501 board. Some of whom were terminated during an election in what appears to be a case of company-union collusion to rid Sonny Hall of rivals. Several of those victimized by this apparent conspiracy ran against Sonny Hall in the last Convention. I nominated one of thoose officers, Jack Sullivan to run against John Kerrigan who also had a part in my removal.
Faced with the examples of Joy Calloway, Local 234(where Sonny interfered with elections), the officers of Local 501, and the officers of Local 562, all vocal opponents of Sonny Hall, who were subsequently removed by Sonny Hall, any President who opposes Sonny does so at the risk of at the very least removal from office, a significant pay cut and possible termination from the company.
The fact is the Presidents have no power. According to the International, their oath dictates that all local officers must put the Internationals interests ahead of the members. This was clearly stated by the International in the document they sent to me describing their reasons for removing me from office.
LIE #3
"The Locals are autonomous."
While they may be "on their own" they most certainly are not self governing or independant of the laws of another. The laws of the local, in other words the bylaws are subject to the approval of the International. If you can not make your own rules, if another body determines what rules you can have, then you are not autonomous.
The Constitution of the TWU clearly gives the International total control over the Local Union. From approving its bylawsa and reviewing its finances to control over its charter. It even gives them the right to eliminate the entire Local. Clearly with such broad powers over them Local unions are not "autonomous". The International simply allows them enough of a leash so long as they dont do anything to annoy the International. Any Local that dares to annoy the International shall soon experience how short the International can make that leash.
Several of the previuos examples, Joy Calloway, Local 501 and Local 562 all reveal how "autonomous" the locals are. Once again, this brings us back to Sonny Halls interpretation of the Oath of office.An oath that according to the International pledges Loyalty to the International ahead of the members.
Lie #4 from the TWU;
"The membership is the Ultimate authority"
This is a lie. The Constition is clear that the members are only the supreme authority of the local "at meetings", but then goes on to say that the Local E board-who by virtue of the Oath of office have been determined to be subordinate to the International- "shall have the power and authority to administer the affairs of the Local Union.
If you read the TWU Constitution it makes clear over and over again that the International is supreme over all Locals. Who is in charge of the International? Its not the members. Article VIII, Section 2 states "the International Executive Council shall be the supreme authority in the International Union (pg 16).
In fact when you read the TWU Constitution its very clear that the power of the Union is confined to the top levels of the union, none of which face electoral accountability from the members. While the Constition clearly designates what powers the International has it is silent as to what powers the members actually have other than at the Local level. As stated already the locals are subordinate to the International. Article XIII(pg 34) makes clear that the membership is subordinate to the International union. With the TWU we are paying to have a second boss. All you need to do is read the Article.
Sect 1 "Any person seeking membership shall be required,,,"
Sect 2 "An applicant shall not be accepted for membership until,,,"
Sect 3 "Any member who fails to pay his/her dues before the 15th day of each month shall be in bad standing."
Sect 4 "Any member in bad standing shall be inelligible to attend union meetings,,,"
Sect 5 "It shall be the duty of each member to pay,,,"
Sect 6-Grants the international power to extendtime limitations for the payment of fines.
Sect 7 "A member shall be required to advise the Local Financial secretary,,,,"
The remaining sections cover transfers, layoffs etc, none of them grant the membership rights to have input into the affairs or direction of the TWU.
It is clear from this article, in fact from the whole document that the membership has duties and obligations to the TWU but the TWU has no duties or obligations to the members.
In direct contrast to Article XIII, which states what the members shall do for the TWU, Articles V through X apply specific and broad powers to the International.After reading the Constitution it is clear that the TWU is not a membership run organization. The Constitution only applies duties and responsibilities upon the members to finance and support the organization but does not grant them any rights to 'participate" in determining the direction of the organization.
So while the Constitution is clear, when taken as a whole, that the membership is not in control, proponents of the TWU, obviously with the hope that no one will actually research the facts behind the statement, claim over and over again that the "membership is the ultimate authority". As long as people actually believe this, its easy for the next TWU lie that "its all the memberships fault" to be believed.
Still no challenge from the TWU supporters. Maybe because they know that what I've said is true and they can think of any new lies to make anyone believe the old lies again!
- Thread Starter
- #55
Here is another TWU lie.
"Amfa only shows up during the bad times to organize."
TWU cultist are running around claiming that AMFA only gets in when the airlines are in dire straits and the unions in place only give concessions to save their jobs.
They claim that these unions have "made the tough choices" in order to save their members jobs.
Howver, other than UAL, most of the other carriers that went AMFA did so during the "good times". NWA went AMFA while the airline was enjoying record profits. SWA went AFA right after an ILC with no concessions.
The fact is that even during the "good times" the unions that are being replaced by AMFA failed to ensure that the members shared in those good times. During the entire 1990s, when the airlies were expanding and enjoying record profitability those unions had put in place hugely concessionary contracts. They have failed their members.
The excuse the unions use is false. They claim that the concessions, despite record profitability were neccesary in order to save jobs. As if the concessions were what made people travel.
In Jim Liitles "TWU restructuring" as opposed to the "AA restructuring" Little demanded that Local leaders "Communicate, communicate, communicate" with the members about the TWU. He wanted them to forward the long standing lies about how the members control the union, lies that the TWU admitted to in various coutrooms over the years. What he really meant was that Local leaders needed to go out there and spread such an overwhelming amount of lies and propaganda so as to smother the truth. As you can see clearly here at this forum, which we know from sworn testimony that the TWU monitors and no doubt repies to, the TWU avoids issues and instead resorts to personal attacks and outright lies. The claim that AMFA only shows up during the bad times is one of them unless of course you look at it from the members point of view that when you are a member of the TWU there only are "bad times".
"Amfa only shows up during the bad times to organize."
TWU cultist are running around claiming that AMFA only gets in when the airlines are in dire straits and the unions in place only give concessions to save their jobs.
They claim that these unions have "made the tough choices" in order to save their members jobs.
Howver, other than UAL, most of the other carriers that went AMFA did so during the "good times". NWA went AMFA while the airline was enjoying record profits. SWA went AFA right after an ILC with no concessions.
The fact is that even during the "good times" the unions that are being replaced by AMFA failed to ensure that the members shared in those good times. During the entire 1990s, when the airlies were expanding and enjoying record profitability those unions had put in place hugely concessionary contracts. They have failed their members.
The excuse the unions use is false. They claim that the concessions, despite record profitability were neccesary in order to save jobs. As if the concessions were what made people travel.
In Jim Liitles "TWU restructuring" as opposed to the "AA restructuring" Little demanded that Local leaders "Communicate, communicate, communicate" with the members about the TWU. He wanted them to forward the long standing lies about how the members control the union, lies that the TWU admitted to in various coutrooms over the years. What he really meant was that Local leaders needed to go out there and spread such an overwhelming amount of lies and propaganda so as to smother the truth. As you can see clearly here at this forum, which we know from sworn testimony that the TWU monitors and no doubt repies to, the TWU avoids issues and instead resorts to personal attacks and outright lies. The claim that AMFA only shows up during the bad times is one of them unless of course you look at it from the members point of view that when you are a member of the TWU there only are "bad times".
- Thread Starter
- #56
Well today we had Jim Littles deposition.
While I dont have the transcript yet, I did make a few notes.
There is some interesting information about Jim Little that came out today.
Jim Little started as a Fleet Service clerk in the early 70s, however after a few short years he decided that the TWU was not for him and went into management. Thats right, Jim Little went into management!!!! So much for his union ideals!!! So much for unionism being in his blood!!!
Now that explains a lot.
While Jim would often cite his "Union roots in Scotland", he never mentions that for around 4 years at AA he chose to work non-union.
The question is why would Little often cite his Union heritage from a period in his childhood, and conceal his much more recent management past?
Now this former member of management is the leader of the ATD. That should not suprise you since the TWU allows members of management to occupy top positions in the TWU as was cited during the 2001 Convention. This way management gets to keep an eye on their union.
When you look at Jims history at AA you can see what he is about.
Started as a Fleet service clerk in 1973. That was a good job back then.
Went into management after 2 years.
In 1979 he went to Dispatch and later sought union office.
While President of the Dispatchers Local sucked up big time to Ed Koziatek in order to get an International position. I have a copy of one of his love notes to Koziatek.
Has worked in behalf of management of AMR ever since getting them Industry leading concessions at both Eagle and AA.
While there is nothing wrong with someone trying to do better for himself the fact is that Jims work history at AA shows that he is not really committed to anything other than what will put the most money into Jim Littles pocket, and sucking up through the International does pay well. Jim makes well over $150,000 a year.
His father in law stayed in management till he retired and never made anything like that.
Recently the Maintenance station manager from JFK resigned, a pretty big job with at least a $50,000,000 annual budget, his pay was reportedly only around $80,000. Little earns double that as the head of the ATD division that generates half that amount in dues (appx $26,000,000). Double the money with half the responsiblity and no accountability, thats the TWU way!!!
All you have to do is be able to lie to and screw over everyone that you see and suck up to those ahead of you on the TWU totem pole.
If you want to make big money in AA management you have to have degrees from fancy colleges, not some mail order correspondance degree from Louisianna. However with the TWU you can make even more money with less qualifications and just get degrees from places like LA, AZ or the Meany Institute where they will get you credit for an Associates Degree in Labor with a GED and a union title and put you on the fast track to a Batchelors in "general" er ah, Labor, Labor studies.
So Jim learned a few union chants, repeated them over and over and kissed but to get into the International while at the same time assisting in putting through concessionary deals that helped AMR become the biggest airline ever. In the meantime union wages under him have steadily declined, as our wages decline his soars. Jim gets well into the six figures from the TWU, we dont know how much he gets from the company though. Still Jim Likes to sell himself as a Union man through and through, from the time he was a wee lad romping around the bonnie Glens of Scotland, but he conveintly leaves out the fact that he was in management only to return to the floor and make himself wealthy by selling out workers!
One has to wonder what Littles real experiences were in Scotland and why he left.
While I dont have the transcript yet, I did make a few notes.
There is some interesting information about Jim Little that came out today.
Jim Little started as a Fleet Service clerk in the early 70s, however after a few short years he decided that the TWU was not for him and went into management. Thats right, Jim Little went into management!!!! So much for his union ideals!!! So much for unionism being in his blood!!!
Now that explains a lot.
While Jim would often cite his "Union roots in Scotland", he never mentions that for around 4 years at AA he chose to work non-union.
The question is why would Little often cite his Union heritage from a period in his childhood, and conceal his much more recent management past?
Now this former member of management is the leader of the ATD. That should not suprise you since the TWU allows members of management to occupy top positions in the TWU as was cited during the 2001 Convention. This way management gets to keep an eye on their union.
When you look at Jims history at AA you can see what he is about.
Started as a Fleet service clerk in 1973. That was a good job back then.
Went into management after 2 years.
In 1979 he went to Dispatch and later sought union office.
While President of the Dispatchers Local sucked up big time to Ed Koziatek in order to get an International position. I have a copy of one of his love notes to Koziatek.
Has worked in behalf of management of AMR ever since getting them Industry leading concessions at both Eagle and AA.
While there is nothing wrong with someone trying to do better for himself the fact is that Jims work history at AA shows that he is not really committed to anything other than what will put the most money into Jim Littles pocket, and sucking up through the International does pay well. Jim makes well over $150,000 a year.
His father in law stayed in management till he retired and never made anything like that.
Recently the Maintenance station manager from JFK resigned, a pretty big job with at least a $50,000,000 annual budget, his pay was reportedly only around $80,000. Little earns double that as the head of the ATD division that generates half that amount in dues (appx $26,000,000). Double the money with half the responsiblity and no accountability, thats the TWU way!!!
All you have to do is be able to lie to and screw over everyone that you see and suck up to those ahead of you on the TWU totem pole.
If you want to make big money in AA management you have to have degrees from fancy colleges, not some mail order correspondance degree from Louisianna. However with the TWU you can make even more money with less qualifications and just get degrees from places like LA, AZ or the Meany Institute where they will get you credit for an Associates Degree in Labor with a GED and a union title and put you on the fast track to a Batchelors in "general" er ah, Labor, Labor studies.
So Jim learned a few union chants, repeated them over and over and kissed but to get into the International while at the same time assisting in putting through concessionary deals that helped AMR become the biggest airline ever. In the meantime union wages under him have steadily declined, as our wages decline his soars. Jim gets well into the six figures from the TWU, we dont know how much he gets from the company though. Still Jim Likes to sell himself as a Union man through and through, from the time he was a wee lad romping around the bonnie Glens of Scotland, but he conveintly leaves out the fact that he was in management only to return to the floor and make himself wealthy by selling out workers!
One has to wonder what Littles real experiences were in Scotland and why he left.
- Thread Starter
- #58
AMFAMAN said:Say it aint so........
Turn out the lights the twu party is over......
Thanks Bob...
[post="254458"][/post]
One thing for sure is these depositions are fun. Gless blames Hall, Hall blames Little and Little blames Gless.
So far none of them could explain why they removed either Chuck or myself.
Yingst simply has no clue whatsoever, his biggest worry was that I was going to put his home address on the Internet.
Little said that they removed Chuck for not signing the letter that Little wrote, but then said that they decided not to use the letters anyway.
If it was important enough to warrant removing an elected official from office then how could they simply decide not to use them? His logic was that since the International demanded it that Chuck had to do it, then he pipes up with "The Locals are autonomous".
He said that he rejected the letter that Chuck wrote because "it sounded like he was being forced", which was exactly the case, write a letter that says what we tell you to say or we will remove you!!!! Unbelievable!!! Autonomous?! Yea, but they must say whatever the International tells them to say and say it the way they want them to say it.
I'll admit that these guys (Little, Hall) can give a decent performance at a meeting where they control the conversation and can rule people out of order as they please but under deposition they are quite a different spectacle. Nervous, unsure, evasive and incompetant.
Little claimed that it was Gless who monitored the internet and gave him all the postings, Gless testified that he did not monitor the internet because he had no time and considered it all drivel anyway. He made a point during my trial to claim that a very nervous Jim Gannon did that. Funny but back in August of 2002 Gless told me that he was posting on the USAIR page under an alias that I still see appearing, an alias that he later swore was not him. Littles testimony contradicted what Gless testified.
Looks to me like they are setting Gless up for the fall, Snead and Taust have already made comments that they were not happy with him. Gless is Luby's boy, Luby even went to Gless's second wedding, however in the TWU loyalty only goes up, not down. That goes for everyone, especially the members.
Bob Owens said:
Now Luby has bailed out of the ATD because of the embarassment that team twu has caused him. He couldn't stand hanging around punks, drunks, cowards, convicted felons, etc, etc, etc.....
Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
- 3,997
- 898
Wow Bob, thats some kind of news that makes you say..... "hmmmm, now that is no surprise". Little did a four year stint as a AA management stooge, and he hid it very well. Did he say what he did when he had a AA tie on? I'm sure he was major help to the management ranks, and he still is. Can't wait for the transcripts, and what "team twu" says about this. How will the twu Titanic Damage Control Team try to spin this one?
BTW, where have all the twu punks, drunks, cowards, felons, functional illiterates, and sell-outs been? How about some twu off-the-cuff delusional comments? Cio? LSMHSS? Butt Scraper? AAmech?
Thanks for making my night Bob!!!
Buh-Bye twu!!!!!
BTW, where have all the twu punks, drunks, cowards, felons, functional illiterates, and sell-outs been? How about some twu off-the-cuff delusional comments? Cio? LSMHSS? Butt Scraper? AAmech?
Thanks for making my night Bob!!!
Buh-Bye twu!!!!!
