TWU negotiations.........what?

[Boomer]

_______________________________

The whining from you and others that wished the TWU M&R would continue to subsidize the continued mismanagement of our airline is a song with the same refrain since 1983.

The TWU M&R gave in '83;
The TWU M&R gave in '89;
The TWU M&R gave in '93;
The TWU M&R gave in '95;

The TWU M&R, thanks to AMFA at UAL benefitted in '01;

The TWU M&R gave in '03;

The TWU M&R quit giving to AMR in 2010;

AMR filed for BK protection in 2011.

A Southern saying is that it takes a 2" x 4" to get the attention of a mule.

Albert Einstein is quoted as stating Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I do not think you and others are bad people: I just hear fear in your postings.

I think the train has jumped the tracks; Little and company are seeking a path by which they will seek to spread the bites of the sh!te sandwich over the entire membership so as to retain the maximum numbers of dues members.

The significant event will be the posting of the cost-out for each article of the individual contracts versus the ask from each individual contract group.

If the TWU fails to post both the cost-out and the ask by contract group: we will know that the TWU International is managing the relative bite of the sh!te sandwich based on the retention of the maximum number of dues payors.

__________________________________

We are now some 5 months from the event horizon; the TWU, APA and APFA have agreed to T/A's with US Airways and committed to support a meger between AA and US Airways.

We are now informed that we will be voting on the, "last-best-final offer," from AA during Sect. 1113 Bankruptcy hearings.

We have never seen the cost-out from AA and the TWU for the current Sect. 1113 ask terms from AA to the TWU Represented Maintenance & Related.

We have never seen the cost-out from AA and the TWU for our current CBA.

We have never seen the proposed T/A between the TWU and US Airways.

The TWU International owns our contract as testified to and adjuciated before a Federal Court.

The TWU acts as our Agent with respect to the negotiation of the pay, hours of work and working conditions of our CBA and we are required, as a condition of employment, to pay the TWU 2 hours of wages as dues every month for that representation.

How can the membership vote on a potential contract from our Legal Agent when we do not have anything to compare that proffer against?

What is the threshold for a failure to represent when the interests of our Legal Agent are soo intertwined with the future of the corporation they are obligated to negotiate in our best interests while refusing to inform their clients of potential contracts they have publically entered into?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

__________________________________

We are now some 5 months from the event horizon; the TWU, APA and APFA have agreed to T/A's with US Airways and committed to support a meger between AA and US Airways.

We are now informed that we will be voting on the, "last-best-final offer," from AA during Sect. 1113 Bankruptcy hearings.

We have never seen the cost-out from AA and the TWU for the current Sect. 1113 ask terms from AA to the TWU Represented Maintenance & Related.

We have never seen the cost-out from AA and the TWU for our current CBA.

We have never seen the proposed T/A between the TWU and US Airways.

The TWU International owns our contract as testified to and adjuciated before a Federal Court.

The TWU acts as our Agent with respect to the negotiation of the pay, hours of work and working conditions of our CBA and we are required, as a condition of employment, to pay the TWU 2 hours of wages as dues every month for that representation.

How can the membership vote on a potential contract from our Legal Agent when we do not have anything to compare that proffer against?

What is the threshold for a failure to represent when the interests of our Legal Agent are soo intertwined with the future of the corporation they are obligated to negotiate in our best interests while refusing to inform their clients of potential contracts they have publically entered into?

BUt Jim littel said "we will fight like hell"

 

[TWU informer]

BUt Jim littel said "we will fight like hell"

And you and Bob said we would get a better offer if we voted NO.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

How can we vote on an AA proposal if we do not have the US Air proposal?
We should have all the options before we vote on anything.

 

[Hopeful]

How can we vote on an AA proposal if we do not have the US Air proposal?
We should have all the options before we vote on anything.

Even the TWU has stated the USAir thing has NOTHING to do with the t/a.

We will not see the USAIR proposal for quite some time.

 

[CMH_GSE]

This kind of the like the Obamacare Bill, first we have to pass to find out what's in it.

 

[Dilligas]

How can we vote on an AA proposal if we do not have the US Air proposal?
We should have all the options before we vote on anything.

US Airways' proposal should have zero influence on any of your decision making. It may or may not come to pass, it's really not important at this stage.

Here are your only two options:

Vote yes on a totally POS contract compared to what you are used to.

OR

Vote no on a totally POS contract compared to what you are used to, with the awareness that the most likely scenario of contract rejection is that the judge will abrogate the total contract you now have and AA will have absolute freedom to impose their terms.

The judge is there to simply say yes or no to AA dumping your contract.

He doesn't get involved in "tweaking" it, "giving you a better deal", being "fair" to employees, etc. It's either "Yes, AA you can dump this contract" or "No, AA you may not." I think I read somewhere (perhaps on the pilot board) that in 33 prior cases, judges have ruled for the company 33 times.

"Getting a better deal from the judge" does not exist. It's either a "crappy POS concessionary contract" or "no contract".

It's a terrible position to be in. I've been there. Good luck to all of you.

 

[FWAAA]

Section 1113 entails negotiating with the company and accepting or rejecting its proposed concessions, not voting on some other airline's promises to treat you better. If you vote to reject AA's offer, and if the court approves the motion to abrogate, AA will impose its terms.

It's probably safe to assume that overall, Parker's offer means more money/fewer job losses than Horton's offer. On the subject of maintenance, however, may want to keep in mind that US outsources 50% of its heavy checks.

There will be plenty of time to vote on Parker's proposals in coming months IF Parker is able to convince the creditors to hand him the reigns of AA.

 

[TWU informer]

Section 1113 entails negotiating with the company and accepting or rejecting its proposed concessions, not voting on some other airline's promises to treat you better. If you vote to reject AA's offer, and if the court approves the motion to abrogate, AA will impose its terms.

It's probably safe to assume that overall, Parker's offer means more money/fewer job losses than Horton's offer. On the subject of maintenance, however, may want to keep in mind that US outsources 50% of its heavy checks.

There will be plenty of time to vote on Parker's proposals in coming months IF Parker is able to convince the creditors to hand him the reigns of AA.

Then there will also plenty of time to correct whatever happens via abbrogation.

I bet Judge Lane never approves a re-org plan without consensual agreements in place.

Sure we will take it for awhile. But how could a Judge ever approve a plan to emerge if all 3 Unions are still not at consensual agreements? In other words can there ever be a valid or successful plan to emerge without Union consent?

 

[787nightmare]

Then there will also plenty of time to correct whatever happens via abbrogation.

I bet Judge Lane never approves a re-org plan without consensual agreements in place.

Sure we will take it for awhile. But how could a Judge ever approve a plan to emerge if all 3 Unions are still not at consensual agreements? In other words can there ever be a valid or successful plan to emerge without Union consent?

Which, IMO is precisely why Parker wanted to get the AA empoyees on board & with approved deals before he approached the creditors/judge with his grand merger plan. The DL backfire/backlash is still fresh in his mind...
Not to mention the mgt/labor turmoil is far worse here at AA than it ever was at DL.

 

[Buck]

Which, IMO is precisely why Parker wanted to get the AA empoyees on board & with approved deals before he approached the creditors/judge with his grand merger plan. The DL backfire/backlash is still fresh in his mind...
Not to mention the mgt/labor turmoil is far worse here at AA than it ever was at DL.

The possibility exists that the employees are not on board, but the union(s) are.

 

[787nightmare]

The possibility exists that the employees are not on board, but the union(s) are.

From what I'm hearing Buck, (and I know I'm just in one hgr), it's been positive.
Most people just don't have any faith in AMRs executive mgt team to execute fairly with it's employees.
Not that Parker's been the second coming of Herb Kelleher at US....

That letter from Bates to the APA members was pretty compelling.
I'd definitely have it all down in black and white.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

VOTE NO
do we really want another six year deal
I dont get what there is to think about
Why vote yes on a six year deal that equates to 15 years of no raises are people really that dumb :blink:

 

[uncle Omar]

VOTE NO
do we really want another six year deal
I dont get what there is to think about
Why vote yes on a six year deal that equates to 15 years of no raises are people really that dumb :blink:

why yes they are Brother!!

 

[texasreb]

VOTE NO
do we really want another six year deal
I dont get what there is to think about
Why vote yes on a six year deal that equates to 15 years of no raises are people really that dumb :blink:

We are getting a six year deal any way you look at it. If we don't vote for it then the judge is going to impose the AA six year contract.