Anomaly
Veteran
- Jun 2, 2012
- 1,220
- 218
Again TSH with your half truths...
This threat is an existing threat to ALL teamster plans.
The truth is the same threat exists to ALL pension plans. Not just Teamsters.
TWU,TEAMSTERS AND AA
- Thread starter 1airborne
- Start date
Again TSH with your half truths...
This threat is an existing threat to ALL teamster plans.
The truth is the same threat exists to ALL pension plans. Not just Teamsters.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Spin?
Would that be the way you conveniently forgot to mention the "mistruths" part of your post?
The drive to get out of Central States wasn't led by the UPS members it was pushed by UPS management. The ibt had tried and failed to organize Overnight freight for years, so in exchange for allowing UPS management to pull out of Central States Pension, UPS management agreed to card check for the ibt at Overnight freight.
Just as Fred Gegare stated.
The ibt helped cripple Central states to get members they couldn't at that point organize.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
The subject of the post was teamsters pension plans not ALL pension plans.
It was the truth.
Trying to claim a "mistruth" by an attempted change of context isn't going to help you.
You have a good point in there Vortilon. Just think how many underwater mortgages could be purchased if you all go to amfa instead? Just think of the money they could pay Seasham to take you frozen pensions? If amfa can't negotiate a contract, they might as well make the attorneys rich, right? Maybe they could use some of this money to learn more about the NMB rules? Apparently charging amfa $8,247.00 to research NMB rule changes was not enough. YIKES
amfa NEEDS MO MONEY for STUFF..... VOTE AMFA !!
..........Just kidding.... Don't be stupid.
Anomaly, you really need to get over yourself. You're nothing more than an IBT shill sucking some IBT dyck on this BB for your masters. I guess it figures you hail from SFO Just what the hell do you know about underwater mortgages? Last time I checked home values were increasing, where I'm at, it's a sellers market. People are in bidding wars trying to buy houses. As far as investments go, maybe you IBT toads shouldn't be throwing stones considering the fact that you live in a big glass house.
Anomaly
Veteran
- Jun 2, 2012
- 1,220
- 218
Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla.... Just as you and Fred Gragare stated. It still does not make it the truth !!!
Here is a different perspective if care to take a look .
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/09/how-the-irs-wrecked-your-pension.html
"Central States is in particularly bad shape, but it's far from alone. A whole lot of the big union pension plans are in trouble. This is usually cited as an example of The Trouble With Unions, or alternatively, The Scandalous Underregulation of the Private Sector. As I dug into the details though, I found out something that surprised me: this wasn't just a story about union mismanagement. And it wasn't a story about deregulation, either. Oh, to be sure, the funds could have managed things better (more about that in a little while). But the reason that they're in such deep trouble now is neither bad management, nor inadequate regulation. In fact, the opposite is true: managers wanted to do a better job, and the government actively stopped them. Meet the true culprit behind the crisis in union pension plans: the friendly folks at the IRS."
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Your pathetic attempt at deflection is duly noted.
This was your inquiry :
The topic is the teamsters allowing UPS management out of Central States in exchange for card check on Overnite Freight.
What differing perspective does your link provide? I see no refuting of events surrounding the deal the ibt cut with UPS.
You blather away ..... It still does not make it the truth !!!
Where is the LIE?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Let Anomaly run the mouth, many are reading and not posting and he does the IBT no service.
TRAVIS
Veteran
9,878-Mechanics and Related Employees
TRAVIS
Veteran
I think i bent someones tail pipe need to sent him down to TUL for repairs.My IBT brothers will fix it up!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think I hurt his feeling....
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Teamsters pension crisis sapping Hoffa’s support, power
Posted By Patrick Howley On 12:14 AM 04/18/2013 In Politics | No Comments
International Brotherhood of Teamsters general president Jimmy Hoffa Jr.’s response to his union’s pension crisis is sapping Hoffa’s support among Teamsters members, according to insiders.
The International Brotherhood of Teamsters is one of the forces lobbying Congress for legislation based on the National Coordinating Committee for Multiemployer Plans’ report “Solutions, Not Bailouts.” The report urges new congressional legislation to allow “deeply troubled” funds to cut employees’ pensions.
The Central States Pension Fund, which serves Teamsters members across the country and which also happens to be “deeply troubled,” has joined the Teamsters in lobbying for the new legislation. Insiders believe that the Fund plans to make across-the-board pension cuts.
The Teamsters’ unwillingness to allow companies to move Teamsters members out of the fund and into more secure retirement plans has enraged Teamsters members and sparked backlash against Hoffa.
“In that they’re calling for pension cuts, they’re on the wrong track,” Ken Paff, national organizer of the reform group Teamsters for a Democratic Union, told The Daily Caller.
Approximately 3,000 active and retired Teamsters converged on their Kansas City union hall Tuesday to voice their displeasure with Hoffa and the Central States Pension Fund.
“It should be about solidarity. In my 32 years as a Teamster, we have stood up for each other. … We should be doing the same to defend the pensions of all Teamsters,” one retired Teamster told Central States Pension Fund official Al Nelson at the Kansas City event.
The Central States Pension Fund was founded by Hoffa’s father in 1964 and supports tens of thousands of Teamsters members in 29 states. The fund now collects roughly $700 million per year in employee contributions while paying out $2.8 billion in benefits.
“There is a reasonable possibility that this plan could run out of money in about a dozen years,” Central States Pension Fund executive director Thomas Nyhan recently admitted.
Every time a company withdraws from the fund, that company’s share of the total pension payouts must be picked up by the other companies in the fund, according to Central States guidelines. This arrangement causes considerable pressure when major companies choose to pull out of the fund.
UPS paid $6.1 billion to exit the fund in 2007. Hoffa allowed UPS to withdraw from the fund in exchange for a card check neutrality pledge allowing the Teamsters to organize UPS Freight, which became a division of UPS after the company purchased the freight shipper Overnight in 2006.
A Central States Pension Fund official later called Hoffa’s decision a “mistake” and said that the Fund, but not Hoffa, wanted to stop UPS from withdrawing.
Insiders believe that Hoffa’s inability to keep UPS in the fund began to turn the tide of popular sentiment against him. One insider referred to the withdrawal by UPS as “Hoffa’s Iraq” — a reference to President Bush’s disputed decision to remove Saddam Hussein.
Hostess Bakeries, which recently filed for bankruptcy, can no longer pay into the fund, adding more pressure on other companies still paying into the fund.
Republic Services/Allied Waste, a waste management company, is now rumored to be mulling an exit from the fund. The company has already proposed that its garbage truck drivers leave the fund and move into the same 401(k) retirement plan as Republic Services management.
In response, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters launched a strike this month involving 106 Republic Services/Allied Waste Teamsters in Youngstown, Ohio. Though the Youngstown strike is now in its third week, nationwide enthusiasm for the strike among Teamsters members has been low.
Hastily assembled “sympathy strikes” by other Republic Services Teamsters outside Youngstown have been shortlived.
“The real reason for these pickets is to harass Republic into staying in the dying Central States Pension Fund,” a Republican Services official said Tuesday.
More than 150 Republic Services Teamsters broke with Teamsters leadership and crossed picket lines Tuesday to return to work in Ohio and Tennessee, expressing a lack of enthusiasm for the Youngstown cause and also dissatisfaction with Hoffa’s policies.
“Trash collection resumed in Toledo today — one day after Teamsters Local 20 delayed trash pickup by participating in a sympathy strike for workers in Youngstown. About 30-35 drivers crossed the picket line early today, allowing Republic Services to cover all commercial routes in northwest Ohio and more than half of the residential routes,” according to a statement by a Republic Services official.
A spokesman for the International Brotherhood of Teamsters declined to comment.
IS this the UNION many of you want to bring to AA?
Do You want our pension to be added to the IBT Pension plans?
TRAVIS
Veteran
You AMFA supporters are really BUTT HURT. YOU NEED TO GET OVER IT. YOU CAME UP SHORT out of 9,878 M&R PER THE NMB THE IBT GOT THE MAJORITY AND FILED ON TIME AND PER THE NMB RULES.
TRAVIS
Veteran
HERE WE GO AGAIN FLAME BAIT....
Central States Funds is only one of hundreds of pension plan’s the IBT have and The IBT has never said we would be placed in that fund they did mention: (THE Western Conference of Teamsters Pension Plan)
WTC is an example of a strong multi-employer plan provided by the Teamsters. With the WCT, the Teamsters Union provides the largest multi-employer pension plan in the country. It includes more than 230,000 participants covered through agreements negotiated by Teamster locals with about 5,200 employers in 13 states. All contributions for coverage are made by the employer and benefits increase the longer a participate remains in covered employment.
The IBT Did said:
• THE MEMBERS CHOOSE. Once you are Teamsters, you will decide your pension through member participation and contract ratification. The truth is that the Teamsters could not and would not ever force you into ANY pension plan. You, the members, will decide which type of retirement plan YOU want. Whether it is a Multi-Employer Defined Benefit, Defined Contribution,or some other type of plan, the choice is YOURS!
• YOU WILL NOT LOSE YOUR EXISTING PENSION. You will not lose any pension you are already vested in. Federal pension law, namely, the Employee Retirement Security Act (known as ERISA) requires that once you vest in a pension, it is yours and cannot be taken away. Your pension fund has a fiduciary duty to you to protect and preserve your pension assets and pay you according to the rules of the plan – whether or not you change union representation. The Teamsters cannot “TAKE” your pension and put it somewhere else. You earned it and you own it!
• YOUR NEW PENSION MUST BE NEGOTIATED. We realize you are concerned about your pensions as well you should be. It is important to remember that you will never be placed into a new plan until it is negotiated with the company and you – the members vote to be put in it. Your Future, Your Pension, Your Decision.
• THERE ARE GOOD OPTIONS. When the time comes to negotiate your new pension, the Teamsters will work with you to educate you about the options. The Teamsters have hundreds of pension funds and other retirement security options for you to consider. Committees made up of rank-and-file members will be involved in this process.
• WATCH OUT FOR SNAKE OIL. The TWU and IAM like to highlight a weak Teamster pension plan and ignore all of the good plans and options. This is a lie by omission.
• IT WILL TAKE EXPERIENCE AND CAPACITY. Retirement security is a critical benefit and it will
take the experience and resources of the Teamsters to negotiate a new retirement security
benefit for you at the merged airline. No other union has the ability to do that.
HAVE A NICE IBT DAY
Central States Funds is only one of hundreds of pension plan’s the IBT have and The IBT has never said we would be placed in that fund they did mention: (THE Western Conference of Teamsters Pension Plan)
WTC is an example of a strong multi-employer plan provided by the Teamsters. With the WCT, the Teamsters Union provides the largest multi-employer pension plan in the country. It includes more than 230,000 participants covered through agreements negotiated by Teamster locals with about 5,200 employers in 13 states. All contributions for coverage are made by the employer and benefits increase the longer a participate remains in covered employment.
The IBT Did said:
• THE MEMBERS CHOOSE. Once you are Teamsters, you will decide your pension through member participation and contract ratification. The truth is that the Teamsters could not and would not ever force you into ANY pension plan. You, the members, will decide which type of retirement plan YOU want. Whether it is a Multi-Employer Defined Benefit, Defined Contribution,or some other type of plan, the choice is YOURS!
• YOU WILL NOT LOSE YOUR EXISTING PENSION. You will not lose any pension you are already vested in. Federal pension law, namely, the Employee Retirement Security Act (known as ERISA) requires that once you vest in a pension, it is yours and cannot be taken away. Your pension fund has a fiduciary duty to you to protect and preserve your pension assets and pay you according to the rules of the plan – whether or not you change union representation. The Teamsters cannot “TAKE” your pension and put it somewhere else. You earned it and you own it!
• YOUR NEW PENSION MUST BE NEGOTIATED. We realize you are concerned about your pensions as well you should be. It is important to remember that you will never be placed into a new plan until it is negotiated with the company and you – the members vote to be put in it. Your Future, Your Pension, Your Decision.
• THERE ARE GOOD OPTIONS. When the time comes to negotiate your new pension, the Teamsters will work with you to educate you about the options. The Teamsters have hundreds of pension funds and other retirement security options for you to consider. Committees made up of rank-and-file members will be involved in this process.
• WATCH OUT FOR SNAKE OIL. The TWU and IAM like to highlight a weak Teamster pension plan and ignore all of the good plans and options. This is a lie by omission.
• IT WILL TAKE EXPERIENCE AND CAPACITY. Retirement security is a critical benefit and it will
take the experience and resources of the Teamsters to negotiate a new retirement security
benefit for you at the merged airline. No other union has the ability to do that.
HAVE A NICE IBT DAY
AMFAinMIAMI
Veteran
Travis
You are 100% correct the IBT beat us to the punch, NMB locked us out due to the rules.
AA which has a great Legal team knew that if they responded to the IBT filing asap they would keep the IBT from getting any further cards, and as well stop the AMFA card drive. How long did it take for mgmt at USAir to do the same when IBT filed? Do you know?
I hate the TWU, and "YES" I support the AMFA, with all the research about the IBT and what they have done with the companies they have and do represent, I would rather keep the TWU, as much as I cringe when I say that.
AA has frozen my pension, with the support of the TWU.
I am with my 5th airline, and with the rules yrs ago about having 10yrs to be vested, and then Jan 1st 1989 it going to 5yrs, I have one pension with the PBGC and one frozen with AA.
To have my AA pension go into the Central states or western forum plans would hurt myself along with every other AA employee.
To take another pay cut by paying $340.00 more a yr for the same type of representation. (NO THANKS)
Not to have a separate Local which the officers are elected by the membership, Not to have officers that are Grocers/Truck drivers/Bakers/butchers.
This is information that I want my fellow AMT's to know before the ballots come out.
All the trash talking about which union is better is here in this forum one way or the other. From supporters of the TWU, the AMFA, and the IBT.
The mechanics and other employees of AA have bent over and taken it for so long alot of them don't know any better. The IGM attitude runs rampant here. AA is really not a union represented company its a bunch of individuals working together, accomplishing the same tasks. The TWU failed them long before I got here.
I don't want the uninformed masses to vote for a union that is NOT going to LQQK out for our best interest. AMFA has made mistakes "YES" I know that. The TWU has as well. The IAM and IBT have made many blunders too.
Whatever union wins in this merger, it will affect the members of USAir & AA which remain and will follow in my class and craft.
Before this is all worked out I will be gone from the airline biz.
For those of you who will remain I wish only the best, But like I have said in other post throughout the last yr, and recently, get involved, do your own research, check what the IAM says, the IBT and TWU. If AMFA decides to get in this as well listen to it all make the best choice for you and your fellow mechanics.
Could it be that Hoffa needed a boost in his election in 06? Card check at Overnite gave him hero status in June-06. He was re-elected in Nov-06, but the piper had to be paid in 07!!! Now it's all catching up to him (well not him but the members). No doubt he is now a millionaire, but at what cost?
