Unions. Food for thought.....

[Deleted member 17588]

While there certainly are some aspects of unions that need to be corrected (as in the private sector as well) the overall positive effects of a unionized workforce benefits society as a whole, union and non-union. It's unfortunate that today this country seems to be returning back to the era of robber barons and industrial/corporate tyrants of one hundred years ago.


http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2011/04/04/union-middle-incomes/

 

[eolesen]

Where are all those jobs supposed to come back from?

 

[Mr Red]

Remember 20 years ago, that giant sucking sound.The economic treason is almost COMPLETE!!!

 

[Deleted member 17588]

Where are all those jobs supposed to come back from?

Perhaps you need to reread the article and a little bit more slowly. The article mentions nothing about bringing jobs back from somewhere. (That's a whole other issue in itself.) This article is stating studies that show that when you have a larger portion of unionized workers, you have a middle class that increasingly thrives as well. This is particularly important right now as there is an outright assault on unions and union busting taking place across this country. As further mentioned in the article, the divide between salaries of the middle class versus CEO's and the very wealthy keeps getting wider. For all you people who believe in the mantra of trickle-down economics, sorry to tell you, but that's just a fallacy. If it worked we'd have a thriving middle class right here and now with the wealth of the super-rich just pouring down on us.

 

[Bob Owens]

We dont need more jobs, we need for the jobs that we have in this country to pay better. Most of the people I know work two jobs, and most work OT as well. If everyone just worked one job and nobody worked OT there would be a labor shortage.

Look at Aircraft Maintenance at AA. If all the mechanics stopped working OT they would need to hire hundreds of more mechanics beyond the 900 or so they plan to hire.

Its a vicious cycle, we need to work extra to make ends meet but the more hours we throw into the market the more it helps suppress our wages.

Thats why we need a General Strike, send a clear message to the elites that they've gone too far and they too could end up facing what Quadaffi and Mubaruk are.

Trickle down ecomonics? Yea right, heres a picture of how Trickle down economics really works.

 

[eolesen]

Perhaps you need to reread the article and a little bit more slowly.

No, I read it just fine. My point is that the types of jobs which were union breadwinners in the 1970's aren't here anymore. They've either been made obsolete (heavily unionized printing companies like RR Donnelly evaporated into thin air over the past two decades due to digital media) or moved manufacturing to cheaper places like Mexico under NAFTA

That's why you have unions like the UAW and TWU now representing casino workers.

So I'll ask the question a little differently... what jobs are left to unionize that are going to result in well paying jobs for breadwinners?....

 

[midnights]

No, I read it just fine. My point is that the types of jobs which were union breadwinners in the 1970's aren't here anymore. They've either been made obsolete (heavily unionized printing companies like RR Donnelly evaporated into thin air over the past two decades due to digital media) or moved manufacturing to cheaper places like Mexico under NAFTA

That's why you have unions like the UAW and TWU now representing casino workers.

So I'll ask the question a little differently... what jobs are left to unionize that are going to result in well paying jobs for breadwinners?....

Strippers?

 

[eolesen]

Strippers?

If they did, can you imagine what would happen if they pushed thru the same "reforms" that the flight attendant unions did with regard to weigh-ins?...

<shudder>

 

[Deleted member 17588]

Eolesen, you're right. The traditional big-industry manufacturing jobs that were highly unionized have left the country. Corporations and politicians have sold out their most valuable asset, labor, for the sake of making products cheaper and profits higher. Unfortunately higher profits have only benefited top management and CEO's, as they keep the extra profits for themselves and have left their remaining employees struggling in low paid service jobs.

What jobs are left to unionize? Basically any job group can be unionized. That's why you see hotel housekeepers unionized and going on strike for better pay and benefits. Efforts to unionize workers at places like Walmart or even McDonalds are taking place. The middle class is struggling (what's left of it) and fighting for a decent living wage and decent benefits. The big breadwinner jobs have left the country and all that's left are the service sector jobs, the one's that were traditionally meant to be summer jobs for high school and college students and entry level positions for recent graduates.

In the past, these jobs were not expected to pay a higher level of salary needed for the sole breadwinner of an average family. Sadly, these are the only types of jobs available for a vast number of the middle class to support themselves, as none other are available thanks to corporate greed and lousy, sell-out politicians who are snuggled in bed with big business and have ignored the individual welfare of the citizens of this country. And to top that off and stick the knife in further, conservative politicians want to cut entitlement programs needed for basic survival at a time when they are needed the most since the Great Depression of the 1930's.

 

[Hopeful]

When unions made their mark earlier in the last century, the standard of living was raised for the average American worker. This went on for decades until the 80's.
Since then, corporate Americal declared war on the middle class and to this day we hear how IT is necessary to lower that standard of living in order to "compete" in a global market.
Well I have news for you, ladies and gentleman.......THERE IS NO COMPETING WITH COUNTRIES THAT PAY $2 AN HOUR!!
Knowing full well that $2 an hour in the USA is impossible to attain, more and more jobs will be shipped to China, India, Vietnam, Bangladesh,,,,and the list goes on and on.
The elititists at the top of the food chain in this country want TWO classes of people..The poor and themsleves....this way they can have us poor folk beg and rely on the wealthy for crumbs that they drop on the floor.
And after the poor are all forced onto welfare and Obamacare, the upper class will use their political contributions and influence to eliminate welfare and public healthcare because AFTER ALL THEY CAN'T HAVE THEIR CORPORATE HEADQUATERS IN A COUNTRY WHERE THERE IS PUBLIC ASSITANCE...JUST DOESN'T LOOK GOOD...
Don't buy the malarchy that unions have outlived their usefulness,

This is CLASS WARFARE plain and simple.


OH BY THE WAY, MY FELLOW AAERS........MAKE SURE YOU GIVE AA 110% WHEN THE EXECUTIVES GET THEIR PUP PAY!

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Eolesen, you're right. The traditional big-industry manufacturing jobs that were highly unionized have left the country.

Caterpillar can't find enough qualified employees and they pay a decent wage. I could name a dozen other manufacturers off the top of my head.

This entire thread is whining about a return to the good 'ol days of highly paid labor when there was no world competition.

Well, the competition has changed for the better. And so must you.

However your union leaders have not led you. They haven't even managed. They just got fat-n-happy.

The public government unions are realizing this now.

The union leaders just want to collect your dues and not be bothered.

Otherwise elections for union leadership would be a lot more simple and transparent.

Good luck!

 

[Hopeful]

Caterpillar can't find enough qualified employees and they pay a decent wage. I could name a dozen other manufacturers off the top of my head.

This entire thread is whining about a return to the good 'ol days of highly paid labor when there was no world competition.

Well, the competition has changed for the better. And so must you.

However your union leaders have not led you. They haven't even managed. They just got fat-n-happy.

The public government unions are realizing this now.

The union leaders just want to collect your dues and not be bothered.

Otherwise elections for union leadership would be a lot more simple and transparent.

Good luck!

Well WHOOP-DI-DOOOH!

If this isn't another management is always right and good and unions bad biased post, I don't what is!

Fat N Happy? funny how you give the corporate fat cats a pass on that one!

Don't forget the most lucrative, greediest union of all...THE GOOD OL BOYS CLUB OF CEOS AND EXECUTIVES AND BOARDS OF DIRECTORS WHO PRACTICALLY CLEANSE EACH OTHERS REAR ENDS. THEY PAD EACH OTHERS WALLETS WHILE BLAMING THE AVERAGE WORKER..

GO PEDDLE YOUR KOOL AID ELSEWHERE!

 

[Deleted member 17588]

This entire thread is whining about a return to the good 'ol days of highly paid labor when there was no world competition.

Well, the competition has changed for the better. And so must you.

Changed for the better?!! Better for who? We are on a slow and steady road to becoming a third-world nation. Just think, in maybe 50 years China will be outsourcing their jobs to the United States to take advantage of our cheap labor.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Corporate greed is worse than unions. For example, yesterday Sbarro's (that nice pizza chain in just about every mall in the country) filed bankruptcy because the company could not afford the debt foisted upon it by a private leveraged buyout a few years ago. The product isn't the problem.

How about Blockbuster? The video chain also declared bankruptcy and will probably be liquidated (maybe even Carl Icahn, remember him?). Blockbuster had a great product but ignored those little Red Boxes that started popping up everywhere renting movies for a buck. And the internet movie downloads too.

We could go on and on with examples on both side (both management and labor).

My main point is that everyone must adapt or die.

The old airline business models don't work anymore. Neither does union grandstanding. How many of you guys would've chosen Southwest as your employer before 9/11 ?? Very few I'll bet because WN's business model was scorned for various reasons.

Go ahead and attack me. Won't change a thing. You made your choice. Now live with it or do something else.

I will buy the product that is the best value for my family. Same as you.

 

[Hopeful]

My main point is that everyone must adapt or die.

Everyone except management...that's the mantra they preach.