United Mechanics Contract

[Glenn Quagmire]

http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/59110-did-united-mechanics-get-a-new-contract/page-17#entry1220307

On the United Airlines forum...

 

[1AA]

denmm
Oct 28 09:42 PM
First we the mechanics are no longer machinists we are Teamsters. The contract proposal forced to a vote by united will surely be voted down by the Teamsters repairing United's fleet of aircraft.
BryanW63
Nov 4 12:30 PM
NOT a tentative agreement, "forced closeout proposal". The company lied.http://seekingalpha.com/news/2853966-ual-reaches-tentative-deal-bring-together-united-continental-mechanics
You're hilarious 1AA. Certainly persistent.

Persistent on issues dealing with my profession as an AMT. I see that bothers you. Your not an AMT. AMT'S need a class and craft union representing them. Industrial unionism is for the unskilled sector who it's employees need union representation. The skilled thrown into an industrial union are the minority and have the smallest voice. The UAL/CAL guys need and deserve better than the Teamsters. Proof is the latest vote results. The Teamsters are out of touch worse than the TWU and IAM. 93% voted NO on a T/A that the Teamsters brought forward for a vote. A fifth grader can figure that out.

 

[WeAAsles]

Persistent on issues dealing with my profession as an AMT. I see that bothers you. Your not an AMT. AMT'S need a class and craft union representing them. Industrial unionism is for the unskilled sector who it's employees need union representation. The skilled thrown into an industrial union are the minority and have the smallest voice. The UAL/CAL guys need and deserve better than the Teamsters. Proof is the latest vote results. The Teamsters are out of touch worse than the TWU and IAM. 93% voted NO on a T/A that the Teamsters brought forward for a vote. A fifth grader can figure that out.

You saw what the guy wrote "forced close out proposal" "forced" Meaning UAL was no longer going to move from its position and the members needed to tell them that they had no interest in accepting the offer. The IBT had conveyed to their members what UAL was doing and needed a show of solidarity for their negotiators which they just got in spades.

So if the IBT negotiators (members, mechanics) could not force the company at that time to move from their position, how do you expect an independent union (members, mechanics) would have seen a different outcome?

Let's hear how that Independent strategy would have worked?

 

[Rogallo]

1AA, on 16 Feb 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

Wow, you guys got balls. I like your solidarity. Can you guys come on over to AA and show the sheep what solidarity is?
 

 
you cant fix STUPID

 
Or add a set of nuts!

 

[Rogallo]

Persistent on issues dealing with my profession as an AMT. I see that bothers you. Your not an AMT. AMT'S need a class and craft union representing them. Industrial unionism is for the unskilled sector who it's employees need union representation. The skilled thrown into an industrial union are the minority and have the smallest voice. The UAL/CAL guys need and deserve better than the Teamsters. Proof is the latest vote results. The Teamsters are out of touch worse than the TWU and IAM. 93% voted NO on a T/A that the Teamsters brought forward for a vote. A fifth grader can figure that out.

 
FYI, I've worked with quite a few "unskilled" mekanics!

 

[WeAAsles]

This last update regarding AMFA SWA mechanics negotiations is promising. I like that the discussions are about opening new stations for their members and it seems collaborative regarding issues for both sides.

Notice in the closing paragraph how the negotiators state that they cannot give every detail because of the sensitivity of talks. Nothing different there from any other negotiations involving any other labor groups or Unions.

http://amfa32.com/SWA%20Mechanics%20Contract%20Docs/2016%20SWA%20MX%20Negotiations/AMFA%20SWA%20Technician%20Negotiations%20Update%20_37.pdf

 

[whoop whoop]

You saw what the guy wrote "forced close out proposal" "forced" Meaning UAL was no longer going to move from its position and the members needed to tell them that they had no interest in accepting the offer. The IBT had conveyed to their members what UAL was doing and needed a show of solidarity for their negotiators which they just got in spades.

So if the IBT negotiators (members, mechanics) could not force the company at that time to move from their position, how do you expect an independent union (members, mechanics) would have seen a different outcome?

Let's hear how that Independent strategy would have worked?

 
Let's get a few things straight here. This was a TA! The ibt called it a close out proposal so as to not take to much blame for bringing this garbage back to the membership. Our mechanic negotiators kept on getting over ruled and run over by the ibt airline division which had their own agendas.
 
Now I will get to their agendas; the first was to get their hands on our medical monies. From the start we informed them, there is no way we will get put into the teamcare medical plan, which is teamster run. They went ahead and put it in the contract any way. I would say that is more than half of the reason it was overwhelmingly rejected.
Why would we start paying for medical? And, if we do start paying, it definitely is not going into the teamsters hands!
 
Veba; they wanted to start a teamster controlled veba plan without telling us how much of our hourly compensation are going to get diverted into this scheme. How do you vote yes when there are OPEN items?
 
Then you get into all the other concessions. Because the ibt does not want to anger the company and is bought and paid for by the company!
 
 
So in conclusion, the ibt is not out of touch with the membership. They know exactly what we want. They just don't care. They have their own mission to accomplish, and it is opposite of what we want.
 
That is why this got voted down by 93%.
 
If the ibt really cared, once UAL said there is no more to negotiate, the ibt should of told the mediator to release us, period. There is nothing that forces them to bring us a proposal because the company said they are done negotiating!  NOTHING!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Anybody hear anything about UAL AMTs?

 
The membership at UAL/CAL voted "NO" on the companies offer.
 
If you do just a little research you will see that they voted it down by a very large number.
 
Here are the results from Ballot Point election service
 
7274 "NO" Votes
 
531  "YES" Votes
 
This comes from a copy of the results sent to UAL mechanics.
 
If you all look to the IBT Locals around the country you will also see that The Houston/MIami/SFO locals have very little info and you would figure that any union which 
got a result of a contract VOTE for a company as large as United it would have more info.
 
To all of you guy's who supported the thought of bringing the IBT here to AA WHAT were you thinking? After all these yrs still nothing, at UAL. We got lots of info on how good they negotiated contracts well we all see NOW just how well that has happened.
 
AMFA over at SWA is in the same boat, but during all of this they replaced the Leadership.
Doing so since the last group failed in the minds of the workers to look out for the best interests of the membership.
 
We will see just well they fair in this economic time when they get a T/A.
 
What is disgusting here at AA is the fact that we the AMT's of the New AA both IAM and TWU represented work groups are letting this Association give us little to NO Info about what is going on.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Let's get a few things straight here. This was a TA! The ibt called it a close out proposal so as to not take to much blame for bringing this garbage back to the membership. Our mechanic negotiators kept on getting over ruled and run over by the ibt airline division which had their own agendas.
 
Now I will get to their agendas; the first was to get their hands on our medical monies. From the start we informed them, there is no way we will get put into the teamcare medical plan, which is teamster run. They went ahead and put it in the contract any way. I would say that is more than half of the reason it was overwhelmingly rejected.
Why would we start paying for medical? And, if we do start paying, it definitely is not going into the teamsters hands!
 
Veba; they wanted to start a teamster controlled veba plan without telling us how much of our hourly compensation are going to get diverted into this scheme. How do you vote yes when there are OPEN items?
 
Then you get into all the other concessions. Because the ibt does not want to anger the company and is bought and paid for by the company!
 
 
So in conclusion, the ibt is not out of touch with the membership. They know exactly what we want. They just don't care. They have their own mission to accomplish, and it is opposite of what we want.
 
That is why this got voted down by 93%.
 
 

Thanks for the perspective. I don't like my Union getting involved in all my financial affairs either. All I want from them is to negotiate and defend a contract that we vote to pass. I'm hoping that we don't get drawn in to the same situation because of the IAMPF? If they do try to force it on us giving up our 401k match on the AA side I can see a possibility of the same results you guys just gave both the company and your Union.

So you guys don't pay anything at all for health insurance right now?

And the VEBA? Nothing written if you would pay into it the amount you chose to have put in, over maybe the decision being made by the IBT to divert a percentage of your pay?
 
 

 

If the ibt really cared, once UAL said there is no more to negotiate, the ibt should of told the mediator to release us, period. There is nothing that forces them to bring us a proposal because the company said they are done negotiating!  NOTHING!

This I disagree with. I very much doubt the NMB would even consider release unless they got a strong message from the membership that talks are completely broken and you don't accept the company's last offer. They're not going to just accept the word of your negotiators on something that big.

 

[swamt]

This last update regarding AMFA SWA mechanics negotiations is promising. I like that the discussions are about opening new stations for their members and it seems collaborative regarding issues for both sides.

Notice in the closing paragraph how the negotiators state that they cannot give every detail because of the sensitivity of talks. Nothing different there from any other negotiations involving any other labor groups or Unions.

http://amfa32.com/SWA%20Mechanics%20Contract%20Docs/2016%20SWA%20MX%20Negotiations/AMFA%20SWA%20Technician%20Negotiations%20Update%20_37.pdf

Hey WeAAsles,  You have brought up some interesting notes.  This year (2016) is suppose to be a good year for added maintenance work and added head count for the mechanics.  I have notified of 4 more cities that SWA is building and or leasing hangar spaces for added maintenance lines. Denver, Houston, BWI and LAX. SWA is also hiring over 100 mechs and maybe more to fill all the openings and new spots being added.  Do to some very restrictive contract language AMFA is having to work with the co to get these added maint stations opened this year.  It's like the co has to ask the Pilots permission to code share ect... There is a lot more they are working on but I was asked not to share all details out here in internet land.  You should be seeing a lot of added maint. lines and added headcount at SWA thru-out 2016 which is good news for all of us.  Another example of AMFA working with the co. and bringing in more and more maint in house rather than like the teamsters letting maint go out of house, and look at what they just did with the UAL guys on outsourcing.  I really don't know why anyone would want the teamsters to represent them. Yes they were big and strong in the early years, but for the past 10-15 years have gone straight down the drain with concessions, outsourcing, pensions, teamcare, veba, not to mention all the times and currently how many times this crooked union has been involved in breaking the laws, forging cards, scamming raids to help another union fight off AMFA ect...  It goes on and on.  The teamsters days are numbered in the aircraft industry and they are doing it all to themselves mostly.  

 

[Bob Owens]

I would say at this point in time its time to forget the labels (IBT, IAM, TWU, AMFA-remember all those organizations work for us) and think about the fact that its the workers against the greedy corporate executives who are raking in billions off our labor. It doesn't matter what Airline you work for or what Union you are in, Its US vs THEM. We have to stick together because they have the government and the media in their pocket. Our brothers at UAL have struck the first blow and we must rally and stand beside them. 

 

[D7571987]

The Continental guys pay for their medical and the United side guys dont currently. 
 
 

So you guys don't pay anything at all for health insurance right now?
 

 

[whoop whoop]

Thanks for the perspective. I don't like my Union getting involved in all my financial affairs either. All I want from them is to negotiate and defend a contract that we vote to pass. I'm hoping that we don't get drawn in to the same situation because of the IAMPF? If they do try to force it on us giving up our 401k match on the AA side I can see a possibility of the same results you guys just gave both the company and your Union.

So you guys don't pay anything at all for health insurance right now?

And the VEBA? Nothing written if you would pay into it the amount you chose to have put in, over maybe the decision being made by the IBT to divert a percentage of your pay?
 
 


This I disagree with. I very much doubt the NMB would even consider release unless they got a strong message from the membership that talks are completely broken and you don't accept the company's last offer. They're not going to just accept the word of your negotiators on something that big.

Just as 757 said, CAL side does, UAL side does not.
 
The Veba would have been an amount out of our hourly pay. So if the contract was $46, rumor was $2 was going to be diverted to the veba account ( that portion was still opened in the TA ). So in actuality, our hourly compensation would only be $44. And, there was no option of opting out of it. Same with teamcare, was you opted in, you could never opt out. You were stuck with it for better or worse.
 
 
The contract failed this big, not JUST because of the concessions, a big part was the ibt looking out for their own asses instead of ours. They were informed by a lot of people throughout the system not to put teamcare in there.
 
As far as being released, that is not the point. They gave a lot of what the mediator wanted supposedly. They showed good faith. UAL showed bad faith by basically saying they were not negotiating any more. The ibt had a case for not bringing it back to the membership. Either way, there is no mistaking it now. To all three, UAL, ibt and nmb.
 
Enough with the games!
 
F.U. and pay me, NOW!

 

[Topcat187]

This last update regarding AMFA SWA mechanics negotiations is promising. I like that the discussions are about opening new stations for their members and it seems collaborative regarding issues for both sides.
Notice in the closing paragraph how the negotiators state that they cannot give every detail because of the sensitivity of talks. Nothing different there from any other negotiations involving any other labor groups or Unions.
http://amfa32.com/SWA%20Mechanics%20Contract%20Docs/2016%20SWA%20MX%20Negotiations/AMFA%20SWA%20Technician%20Negotiations%20Update%20_37.pdf

I didnt find it to be that impressive. The update was what i consider to be pretty normal.

 

[Bob Owens]

Thanks for the perspective. I don't like my Union getting involved in all my financial affairs either. All I want from them is to negotiate and defend a contract that we vote to pass. I'm hoping that we don't get drawn in to the same situation because of the IAMPF? If they do try to force it on us giving up our 401k match on the AA side I can see a possibility of the same results you guys just gave both the company and your Union.

So you guys don't pay anything at all for health insurance right now?

And the VEBA? Nothing written if you would pay into it the amount you chose to have put in, over maybe the decision being made by the IBT to divert a percentage of your pay?
 
 


This I disagree with. I very much doubt the NMB would even consider release unless they got a strong message from the membership that talks are completely broken and you don't accept the company's last offer. They're not going to just accept the word of your negotiators on something that big.

 
If the NMB does not release the parties I think that the IBT should sue and the workers should engage in CHAOS. In fact I think all airline workers should. The fact is the NMB has to have grounds to keep them in negotiations, these negotiations have been going on for six years. What would be their basis for not releasing them? How could they claim that further mediation with nothing at stake for the company would result in an agreement  when after 6 years they have not? Normally they claim that the company's offer should go to a vote first, which it did, and the members rejected it by 93%. Its time we stopped acting like we have no power and must simply comply with people who have screwed us time and time again. The NMBs track record is not good. Did they hold EAL and the IAM? NO. Did the hold NWA and AMFA? Yes when the union was demanding fair increases and in a position to get them but then NO when the company was demanding huge concessions. The NMB has shown that they only extend mediation when the Union is in a position to make gains and expedite release when the company is in a position to take concessions. The pattern is undeniable. With the airlines recording multi-billion $ profits to continue this biased behavior only invites and justifies the workers resorting to CHAOS and wildcats. 6 years by any measure is an inordinately long time to negotiate.