US Airways withdrawing China Application?

[Dog Wonder]

I rubbed Four Points Pecan pie on my body.

That is Sherry Shamblin?

When I saw her in person she looked much, uh how do I put it? I guess scaggier is the word, since riddenhardanddrugthroughthemud isn't really a word.

 

[delta777]

Not today, but likely a 340 for the 2009 route award, for which US should be the favored applicant - primarily because PHL has NO Asia services period. US now has the contract option to change several of the 332 deliveries scheduled to start in 2009 to 340s. 2009 is for US to Loose. The 2007 authority was granted after US submitted a letter of intent to DOT. US assumed the earliest award would be made for a flight starting in March 2008 - with a potential start date extension to June 2008. When the additional frequencies were recently approved by China (to 2007), US just did not have the time to acquire and operationally prove the 340. In fact, IF DL is awarded the 2007 slot, they will have difficulty assigning 2 aircraft to it without compromising other high profile services. Consequently, they will likely request a delay in start up into early 2008.

No need to worry about Delta acquiring the needed 777's to run the route. Here's a quote from the AJC.com which states,


"The DOT timetable, which would require flights to begin as November, seems to be months ahead of Delta's. Delta pre-filed an application in January saying it wants to launch daily flights between Atlanta and China's financial center in March 2008.

Delta spokesman Kent Landers said the airline expects to meet whatever deadlines the DOT sets. He noted that the agency indicated it will give the winning carrier some leeway in starting its flights."


We have 2 777LR's coming in February and March, along with 3 additional orders coming late 2008 or early 2009. Add to this the 11 options for 777LR's, which we will almost certainly exercise very shortly.

As for the 2009 slots being US Airways being LCC's to lose, they'd best not rest on their laurels. Here's another quote from the AJC that states,

"The DOT said it will award all the flights at one time in an accelerated process that could produce winners as soon as this summer."

This might cause the DOT to hesitate awarding LCC the 2009 frequencies if they still don't have the aircraft required to run the route, or at least the commitment to acquire said aircraft.

 

[legacy-to-LCC]

As for the 2009 slots being US Airways being LCC's to lose, they'd best not rest on their laurels.

this is precisely what DoUgIe's team of regional innovation management does best.

 

[Dog Wonder]

this is precisely what DoUgIe's team of regional innovation management does best.

Laurels? What Laurels? We don't need no stinkin' laurels

 

[AstroLounge]

That's funny--I didn't ask you.

I think it's hysterical. Unlike YOU, she is clueless.....ENLIGHTEN Her. (And the the rest of THE GANG)

 

[BoeingBoy]

2009 will see lots of new China service. Here's what the DOT wants to award in this first round:

2007 - one additional airline may be designated to operate combination services between the United States and China. Seven combination frequencies are available to serve points in China Zone 1 or China Zone 2. (see note)

2008 - seven combination frequencies are available to provide nonstop service between the United States and Guangzhou, China. There are also seven frequencies for combination services specifically limited to serving points in China Zone 2.

2009 - one additional airline may be designated to operate combination services between the United States and China. Twenty-eight weekly combination frequencies are available for allocation to serve points in China Zone 1 or China Zone 2. There are also seven frequencies available for combination services specifically limited to serving points in China Zone 2.

Note: As defined by the amended agreement, China Zone 1 consists of Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou. China Zone
2 consists of Fujian, Guangdong (except Guangzhou), Hebei, Jiangsu, Shandong, Tianjin, and Zhejiang.

Cargo and 2010-2012 combination services awards will be handled separately.

DOT Frequency Allocation Proceeding Notice

Jim

 

[AstroLounge]

I'm sure you'll be disapointed to learn that I am not in fact Gwyneth Paltrow.

As for US and thier application, they should withdraw it. The zombie-fied US Airways of today is not even competent on its transpennsylvania flights. They are in no way worthy to take on anything like a transpacific route, its embarrassing that they even thought this mess was even in that league.

Oh please don't even suggest that the Shuttles to Altoona or Dubois are being affected ....those are the Crown Jewels .....clutch my damn pearls! Trouble in the Keystone State- almost like a Pierogi Boycott in Pittsburgh!

 

[zethya]

Not today, but likely a 340 for the 2009 route award, for which US should be the favored applicant - primarily because PHL has NO Asia services period. US now has the contract option to change several of the 332 deliveries scheduled to start in 2009 to 340s. 2009 is for US to Loose. The 2007 authority was granted after US submitted a letter of intent to DOT. US assumed the earliest award would be made for a flight starting in March 2008 - with a potential start date extension to June 2008. When the additional frequencies were recently approved by China (to 2007), US just did not have the time to acquire and operationally prove the 340. In fact, IF DL is awarded the 2007 slot, they will have difficulty assigning 2 aircraft to it without compromising other high profile services. Consequently, they will likely request a delay in start up into early 2008.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474516_web.pdf

 

[ringmaruf]

And now it looks like the service is to be PHL-PEK in 2009.

2007, 2009, what's the difference.
PVG, PEK, what's the difference.

Sigh.

 

[FutureUScapt]

And now it looks like the service is to be PHL-PEK in 2009.

2007, 2009, what's the difference.
PVG, PEK, what's the difference.

Sigh.

Good point, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them change their minds somehow again before it starts (if it does).

PEK is about 500nm miles closer so it may be able to be flown by an a/c that can't operate PVG w/o being weight restricted, etc. Also PEK is the major hub for Air China which will become a *A next year so US could codeshare on some of their flights. It's too bad that it will be one year after the summer olympic games though.

 

[delta777]

Good point, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them change their minds somehow again before it starts (if it does).

PEK is about 500nm miles closer so it may be able to be flown by an a/c that can't operate PVG w/o being weight restricted, etc. Also PEK is the major hub for Air China which will become a *A next year so US could codeshare on some of their flights. It's too bad that it will be one year after the summer olympic games though.

PHL-PEK = 5977 NM
PHL-PVG = 6452 NM

The range of the A332 is about 6700NM, but i believe that is with the GE or Trent engines, not the PW engines US Airways will be using. So PHL-PVG might be pushing the envelope with a full load westbound.

 

[A320 Driver]

And there you have, in a nutshell, why this profession is in the crapper.

Even the name says it: A320 DRIVER.

Wake up man. Figure out what it is you do for a living and stand up for it! BTW, I'm based in CLT.

pilot

This profession is in the crapper because a group of lunatics turned 4 commercial airliners into missiles. Business travel made up the smaller part of our passengers, but were a huge part of our income. They left, and to a large degree, did not return. LCCs attracted new riders with low fares and now we compete for those riders like everyone else. No more blank checks from business for seats. We haul more people but make less money doing it. Our pays scales are currently set at bankruptcy levels, but that will change. The company wants to grow the airline internationally but we will not let them until we get a new contract. Now those talks have basically been set aside in ILO the seniority debacle currently in process. The company has severe operational issues and can't seem to get a foothold on them. Management will also not bring East up to pay parity with the West, they say because we will ask for even more then in contract talks (major B.S.)but I think they won't do it because they know the West pilots don't want us brought up to pay parity unless there is something in it for them also.

We are like three gunfighters (East, West, Management) waiting for one of the others to flinch. Meanwhile our competitors are standing right behind us waiting for the smoke to clear so they can finish off the survivor.

You geniuses tell ME what will stop the bloodletting. You don't like my ideas, so tell me, who will make the first move to defuse this situation. I don't relish bankruptcy again, but the potential is there if we don't take a hard look at the realities and priorities that face us TODAY...not during the past. We drool at the Southwest pay scales when IMO the thing they have that I REALLY want is a healthy airline...the money will come.


A320 Driver (I like my handle) B)

This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

 

[Travelpro72]

Usairways was already heading downhill BEFORE 9/11. We flew with NO LEADERSHIP during the attempted merger with United only to have "No Plan B". Remember that folks? This industry used 9/11 to their advantage in many ways. So here we are. 9/11 comming up on its 6th anniversary and things are STILL this bad? I'd say it's management at airlines that are responsible.

 

[EastUS]

I don't relish bankruptcy again, but the potential is there if we don't take a hard look at the realities and priorities that face us TODAY...not during the past. We drool at the Southwest pay scales when IMO the thing they have that I REALLY want is a healthy airline...the money will come.
A320 Driver (I like my handle) B)

This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

That sounds like the typical "I'll give away ANYTHING to keep my now-pathetic job!" crap that's been heard for years...and fully exploited by thieves in "managemant". If you've actually any misplaced notion that, even if any given corporation is "healthy"...that: "the money will come"...you're fully delusional. The only thing to be obtained will be through negotiation, or forcefull actions. :down:

You may "drool" over SWest pay scales...but they cannot EVER be obtained with your attitude...unless you become willing to actually FIGHT for them. Bankruptcy?=That's nothing that you have the slightest degree of control over should it happen. Stop fretting over shadows in the closet and be willing to stand up. Without some guts..the ONLY thing that you're truly "entitled to" IS your opinion.

"IMO the thing they have that I REALLY want is a healthy airline"...Words fail me...Do you not think that this IS a "healthy airline" for the bozos pocketing millions at the top? Will you spend years waiting for the proper moment to sally forth with your porridge bowl in the orphanage and meekly ask for more?

 

[pilot]

The profession being in the crapper has nothing to do with 9/11.

If that has to be explained to anyone who is a pilot then he does not understand the profession.

And therein lies the problem. Being totally fearful of a management ultimatum of "give it back or we shut it down" is the problem. How often has management said that to Exxon or any other fuel supplier?

We don't run the airline. We fly the jets. We are labor. I don't care about CASM, oil prices, landing fees or anything other than flying the jets. That is MY profession. Managements job is to run the airline. And Southwest does precisely that. How is it they can pay their pilots 40% more? Because 9/11 didn't affect them?

We are only as strong as the weakest among us. 320Driver is as weak as they come. Just read his posts.

He and his cowardly band of brothers are why the profession is in the crapper. Because they will fly anything, anytime, anywhere for any amount.

You can't fix stupid and cowardice. You can only marvel at the lack of foresight and guts some guys have.

pilot