US Airways's pilots are paid less than pilots at other airlines

[700UW]

I flew WN from LAX-LAS-LAX, smooth boarding process, great service.

 

[traderjake]

You won't hear WN ramp agents saying "That's not my flight" or "I'll get in trouble if I do that job".

Admit it 700, you and IAM are part of the problem.

 

[700UW]

WN has scope language just like everyone else.

And if you really want to know what the problem is/was Chris Beebe and the insistance of no RJs on US property, that is what the problems started.

And hey if you think it is ok for someone esle to do your contractually provided work, then let Mesa take over all the flying and let US pilots only fly the widebodie.

ALPA caused its own problems and now it has comeback to hit you in the face.

And if US admits the loading and unloading is fleet service's job and agreed to in the CBA, what is your beef with it?

 

[fatherabraham]

US Airways's pilots are paid less than pilots at other airlines, Pilots with 12 years of experience, flying narrowbody 737 & Airbus

I think thread topic opinions would be cool to read about if anyone has anything to respond.

FA

 

[john john]

You won't hear WN pilots saying "That's not my flight" or "I'll get in trouble if I do that job".
Admit it traderjacke, you and ALPA are part of the problem.

 

[sfb]

Could it be that the reason Southwest's CASM is lower is mainly due to just one aircraft type?

More like, one reason Southwest's CASM is lower is the single aircraft type. They're also just plain more efficient and more productive. They save quite a bit of money by owning the vast majority of their fleet instead of leasing.

What about the other side of the coin ? RASM..

What about it? WN's RASM was still well above its CASM, and they still enjoy pricing power relative to their peers.

What about employee costs ?

What about them? Do you think that employees at Southwest's competitors will gladly accept dramatically lower pay as their employers return to profitability? The "new" US Airways posted one quarterly profit and already the pilots want a bigger slice of the pie!

What about Southwest's eroding fuel hedging advantage ? In order to stay profitable, LUV is forced to raise fares.

And everyone else raises fares right along with them because they can't show a profit at the fares being charged by Southwest. Southwest's fuel-excluded CASM is still one of the lowest in the industry, and the absolute lowest when adjustment is made for average stage length.

The playing field is leveling.

Southwest is kicking who's butt in PIT ?

Well, going from zero to over ten percent market share in a market the size of PIT in a single year is certainly nothing to laugh off. Taking 45% of a formerly monopoly route like PIT-PHL in six months is no small feat. US's daily O&D revenue on PIT-PHL fell from $100K to 75K between 3Q04 and 3Q05.

Why is Usairways still in Philly ?
Why hasn't Southwest run US out of PHL ?

US Airways can't afford to lose PHL, even if WN is diluting yield on some routes. But then, daily mainline departures on East from PHL have declined from 199 before WN's entry to 152 today.

How much money does LUV make on International Routes ?

How much profit does US make on domestic routes? Why would Southwest need to fly internationally if they make money domestically?

I do not think Southwest is going to disappear,
But they will become less dominate as time marches on.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But you can't run a business on the assumption that one of your competitors will falter.

 

[pitguy]

Just about all of Airways’ entire workforce are the lowest paid in the industry for their respective job classification. The pilot group is just part of that. The mechanics are also the lowest paid in the industry. That would be the same mechanic group that the pilots scabbed back in 1992.


~For years Airways pilots were paid at an insane rate that did not fit a successful business model. The pilots danced to the music for all of that time and now it is time to pay the fiddler.

 

[insp89]

More like, one reason Southwest's CASM is lower is the single aircraft type. They're also just plain more efficient and more productive. They save quite a bit of money by owning the vast majority of their fleet instead of leasing.
What about it? WN's RASM was still well above its CASM, and they still enjoy pricing power relative to their peers.
What about them? Do you think that employees at Southwest's competitors will gladly accept dramatically lower pay as their employers return to profitability? The "new" US Airways posted one quarterly profit and already the pilots want a bigger slice of the pie!
And everyone else raises fares right along with them because they can't show a profit at the fares being charged by Southwest. Southwest's fuel-excluded CASM is still one of the lowest in the industry, and the absolute lowest when adjustment is made for average stage length.
Well, going from zero to over ten percent market share in a market the size of PIT in a single year is certainly nothing to laugh off. Taking 45% of a formerly monopoly route like PIT-PHL in six months is no small feat. US's daily O&D revenue on PIT-PHL fell from $100K to 75K between 3Q04 and 3Q05.
US Airways can't afford to lose PHL, even if WN is diluting yield on some routes. But then, daily mainline departures on East from PHL have declined from 199 before WN's entry to 152 today.
How much profit does US make on domestic routes? Why would Southwest need to fly internationally if they make money domestically?
Maybe yes, maybe no. But you can't run a business on the assumption that one of your competitors will falter.

sfb, You are just having a difficult time realizing the fact that the rest of the ailine industry is [and is in the process] of being competitive with LUV.

LUV enjoying "pricing powers" relative to their peers ?
I guess thats why they are "enjoying" raising their fares like the rest of their "peers".

Now, you're not suggesting that LUV ran US out of PIT, are you? It's common knowledge that US did not need all the presence in both PIT and PHL. The decision to downsize one or the other airport was LONG over due.

I believe whenever one talks about CASM, the discussion is not complete unless you also include RASM. [Something a LOT of people on here fail to do.)

Your comments on the employees of LUV's competitors is Laughable..Surely you know what a UNION is and what a CONTRACT is ??
The employees of ALL the airlines that have [and are now going thru bankrupcy] have taken extreme pay and benefit cuts. There was nothing "gladly accepted" during the bankrupcy process, Just long term concessions.

Do you actually think the employees of LUV will react any different if and when they are faced with the same situation ?

I did not suggest that LUV should fly international routes.
But if they ever do, It would require larger aircraft, and diminish their one fleet type CASM advantage.
I also do not assume LUV will "falter", unike some that were counting on US to "falter".

 

[SoftLanding]

US Airways East Pilots have never met a concession they did not like.

Very true!

 

[fatherabraham]

That would be the same mechanic group that the pilots scabbed back in 1992.

YOUR continued envy of pilots and attacks of many good pilots is wrong wrong wrong. You know what a SCAB is and you are being slanderous. I know you will not stop and probably bring up some non issue. So sad for you! :down:

FA

 

[SoftLanding]

All examples of the previous poster's "rear view mirror" thinking. The landscape for WN has changed dramatically in the past two years. The fuel hedging profits are shrinking, and in the case of US, we're STARTING to get our bearings. Costs are not the whole story. US yields are slowly improving, and there is enough money in the bank to put up a meaningful fight for markets. The current US Management team, while not perfect, is solid. The integration is progressing at a reasonable pace, and the first quarter profit, or near profit, is promising. Track records are interesting to look back on, but have little relevance to the current situation, or the future. The CA and BWI debacles are many years ago in a very different time. The trend here at US is certainly in the right direction!

ab320driver,

your points are valid.

However,

is this as good as it's going to get?

The US economic expansion is around 45 months, long in the tooth. (Slowdown here will lower oil prices.)

The consumer is getting tired, though the airlines have not seen it...yet...

We have an unproven management team. (Track records matters.)

Cost will matter if/when we face a slowing economy. Yields will be severly reduced to fill a lot of seats across the Atlantic.

I too am happy about seeing a rather decent 1st quarter 2006. 2006 should be a rather good year.

So why have our VP's started selling? (Not Parker.)

Again, is this as good as it's going to get?

SoftLanding

 

[supercruiser]

That would be the same mechanic group that the pilots scabbed back in 1992.
...~For years Airways pilots were paid at an insane rate that did not fit a successful business model.

Oh please, not more of this tired old pack of lies. Not one pilot turned one wrench during the mechanic strike that happened almost a generation ago. If you have evidence that it happened, please provide it. Otherwise give it a rest, finally. Yes I imagine a few pilots, some flight attendants and gate agents picked up some trash on some planes during that time. Big deal. Did that break the back of the union? The mechanics were very misguided in ever allowing the "related"(right!) become a part of their own bargaining unit.

The pilot pay was exactly what management insisted it be, parity plus 1% of its closest competitors. Just like the other employee groups except the F/A's who rejected it.

pitguy, try to post something more original other than some ancient pilot bashing stuff. The only thing I can think of is you must have been one of those (unrelated) that picked up trash on planes as a career. If true, then sad that's all you aspired to be, and understandable why you felt so threatened in your challenging job.

supercruiser

 

[700UW]

Pilots helped clean planes, and did not write things up. Cleaning planes while Utility is on strike is being a scab.

Ever been stabbed in the hand with a syringe while cleaning a seatback and have to undergo AIDS testing for several years?

I know people that have, are you trained in biohazards?

Ever crawl into the wing and clean a fuel tank?

Hang from a the hangar ceiling from a harness to buff the crown of a 767?

Utility did way more then just pick up trash as you say.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.

 

[brown]

ff:
Wow, another amazing and intelligent response from you.

Did you get that from a 8 year old?

Come back when you can actually add to the topic at hand instead of making it about me.

You need to call the EAS.

The EAS thing is a bit old!!!!

 

[supercruiser]

Wasn't me doing the rant, (by the way I've seen yours a zillion times about the syringe, buffing the planes, etc, like ownly a trained professional could do it) it was pitguy dredging up bs from a generation ago. He and you make it sound like 6000 pilots came in on their days off throughout the system and broke the back of the union by picking up some trash. I already acknowledged that some trash was picked up by various employee groups, yet you and he only choose to bash the pilots. Clearly no pilot, f/a or agent dumped any lavs. You know no pilot twisted a wrench, yet persist that the pilots ruined the "mechanic" strike. You're both delusional.

The fact is that picking up trash, buffing planes, etc isn't related at all with anything a mechanic does, and it only diluted them and risked their own jobs by letting the cleaners tag along on their backs. I'm done posting on this as it's been covered a thousand times a thousand ways, but you'll take it to your grave the the pilots busted your strike. So be it.