US Pilot Labor Thread 7/27-8/3

[EastUS]

(Quoted post deleted by moderator.)

Not from anyone who's only apparent qualification lies within the "no forehead" portion only. "Nyaah, Nyaahs" aside; I think our respective positions are clear. Yours = QUOTE (tazz @ Jul 28 2008, 04:40 PM) Notice that I said FALSE safety claims because that's what they are. Taking a lot of extra fuel to blatantly waste in order to make a point is criminal in my view."..thus, directly accusing other pilots of actually doing any such thing ...presumably based solely upon yet more westie "feeeelings"..and of course, your inherent faith that no aspect of management would ever mislead you at all's a wonderful thing indeed, and naturally, that The End is Near!!..and it's all USAPA's fault!! What passes for "logic" in your circle's nothing short of amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHVOAl3jSRc 😉


Mine = "Tell us all about it after your next Atlantic crossing, or just kindly shut up about things you're clearly clueless about. "Taking a lot of extra fuel to blatantly waste"??? I'll assume that 15 or so extra minutes on some 7-10 hour flights IS clearly "criminal" in your...umm..."interesting" and hugely experienced perspective."

 

[ussnark]

Making a public statement falsely is no less criminal.

I'd turn myself in as a criminal if I were you, simply based on your own statement.

 

[ussnark]

Is that like the expression "All Hat and No Cattle"?

You nailed it, sir.

I guess crossing dried lake beds somehow qualifies someone with zillions of nano-seconds of logged, lawn dart time all about over-water. <sigh>

 

[cleardirect]

I realize that this may be a difficult concept for you. I said that USAPA has the support of its members. Are you a member? Didn't think so. Your opinion is moot in that case.

While USAPA has the support of its members, that does not necessarily mean that all the pilots it represents are members.

Do you see the difference? Do you understand the difference? FARs require Airline Transport Pilots to be able to read, speak, UNDERSTAND and have fluency in English.

Point taken. Subtle and insulting as usual. No I am not a member. Any idea why? Have you asked yourself why so many west pilots have refuse to be a part of your club? Care to point out what USAPA has done to encourage west pilots to join? Threatening someone with termination does not motivate much. Once again you make your point with a sledge hammer.

And remember, Bucko, you are along for the ride. And it appears there's nothing you are willing to do about it. The captain has turned on the "Fasten Seat Belt" sign. I suggest you heed it.

The tyranny of the majority. Care to inform the masses how many reps the west pilots get even if all 1800 west pilots joined? How many reps do the east pilots get under the USAPA C&BL? So just what are we suppose to “do about itâ€￾? What exactly is in it for the west pilots? Are you guys going to realize your mistake and finally accept the Nicolau award? Are you going to rewrite the C&BL’s to allow a more fair and balanced representation? Just what benefits do you think are in it for the west pilots by joining?

However my opinion is not moot. It is still quite valid thank you very much. But it does concern me that USAPA does have the support after some truly monumental errors in judgment. If your members are blindly supporting and following that kind of leadership I fear for the future.

 

[Piedmont1984]

The recent revelations regarding Wye River point to the fact that it was your leadership, not ours, who committed some monumental blunders.

So far USAPA is batting a thousand - from the cards to the election. Yes there is much left to do, mainly the contract and the list. But since you have decided not to participate, we will craft and submit those two documents to management without your input. Management wants a contract so they can resume playing airline monopoly.

As a result of your misguided petulance, you have made yourselves irrelevant, and at this point I'm not sure we even want your input.

I like this way better.

 

[N924PS]

First off, I make more hourly than any line pilot at AWA. In my first 25 years at USAir, I already earned more than any of your most senior pilots will see in their entire careers. There is no way to catch up since your contracts during that period were so far inferior to mine and almost every other airline in the country.

My point about your gutter contracts is that you have had them since you turned your first Dash-8 prop in, what?, 1983? You've never managed to get anywhere close to what was even 80% of industry standard pre-911. Now, of course, our Group 2 pilots make considerably less than AWA. That has been since 2003. So, over the last 25 years, AWA has been in the gutter the ENTIRE time. USAir pilots have had industry leading contracts for 20 of those 25 years. And our highest paying pilots still leave you folks in the dust.

That was then this is now.

Did you burn a copy of that huge parity plus 1% check you got prior to BK 1 (you remember the one that had to be paid back to the company!) for posterity?

As Mr. Parker reminded Captain "We Hate You Guys" from the West, your comments are completely non productive and rather childish given the circumstances this pilot group is confronted with.

Two of the training committee reps resigned after the USAToday ad was run. Perhaps they didn't think it was a good idea to bring a local issue to national prominence in today's airline environment either.

 

[Piedmont1984]

That was then this is now.

Did you burn a copy of that huge parity plus 1% check you got prior to BK 1 (you remember the one that had to be paid back to the company!) for posterity?

As Mr. Parker reminded Captain "We Hate You Guys" from the West, your comments are completely non productive and rather childish given the circumstances this pilot group is confronted with.

Two of the training committee reps resigned after the USAToday ad was run. Perhaps they didn't think it was a good idea to bring a local issue to national prominence in today's airline environment either.

I spoke with the training committee rep shortly after he resigned. Although there were honest differences regarding tactics, he made it clear that he was 100% behind USAPA.

 

[dariencc]

Did you burn a copy of that huge parity plus 1% check you got prior to BK 1 (you remember the one that had to be paid back to the company!) for posterity?

Seems like kind of a non productive reply, and rather childish given the circumstances this pilot group is confronted with. Hey, where have I heard that before?

As Mr. Parker reminded Captain "We Hate You Guys" from the West, your comments are completely non productive and rather childish given the circumstances this pilot group is confronted with.

In responding to a typical taunt, the poster was laying out the facts about our earnings and contracts prior to 9/11. Kind of like what you tried to do, less effectively, with your parity plus 1% crack.

Two of the training committee reps resigned after the USAToday ad was run. Perhaps they didn't think it was a good idea to bring a local issue to national prominence in today's airline environment either.

So what's your point? There was an honest disagreement, so should the reps have allowed themselves to become paralyzed by that? Sorry to disappoint, but Pollock is no longer in charge.

 

[ussnark]

Two of the training committee reps resigned after the USAToday ad was run. Perhaps they didn't think it was a good idea to bring a local issue to national prominence in today's airline environment either.

The "resignation" had nothing to do with the ad, as you imply.

You would be a strong force if only you would quit relying on gossip.

 

[N924PS]

So what's your point? There was an honest disagreement, so should the reps have allowed themselves to become paralyzed by that? Sorry to disappoint, but Pollock is no longer in charge.

Only that dissent is a good thing. Even where the tyranny of the majority resides.

 

[cleardirect]

The "resignation" had nothing to do with the ad, as you imply.

You would be a strong force if only you would quit relying on gossip.

July 21,2008

ITEM FOUR - Training Committee Chairman Rand Clark and Vice Chairman Bob Georges recently submitted their resignations to President Bradford and those resignations were accepted. Captain Clark and First Officer Georges were (and are) both adamant that they stand firmly behind the fight to protect Captain's Authority. They found, however, that their views on the methodology used to protect that authority varied from the unanimous views held by the Board of Pilot Representatives. Captain Clark and First Officer Georges felt that, considering the differences in opinion, it was best to allow others to step in at this point. To that end, and in response to recommendations from the Board, President Bradford has appointed First Officer Mike Turpen as Interim Chairman of the Training Committee.

Oh well I guess if you consider the USAPA update as “gossipâ€￾.


"They found, however, that their views on the methodology used to protect that authority varied from the unanimous views held by the Board of Pilot Representatives."

That unanimous view was to spend over $100,000 on an ad. If it was not the ad than please explain just what “methodologyâ€￾ did they disagree with? Would it be the ill conceived idea to go to the feds and use safety as a political weapon? Would it be defending 8 knuckleheads that are running around wasting gas to make a point?

Just curious what was the reason if not the stated reason from the official source?

 

[dariencc]

That unanimous view was to spend over $100,000 on an ad.

If memory serves, $100,000 comes to slightly less than Captain Prater's annual Alpo housing allowance. Given a choice, I humbly vote for the ad.

Would it be the ill conceived idea to go to the feds and use safety as a political weapon? Would it be defending 8 knuckleheads that are running around wasting gas to make a point?

At the risk of stating the obvious, I believe "it" would be taking a properly rigid stand against the unprecedented (at least at US East) and outrageous use of the Training Department as a tool of intimidation of the line pilots. We have a long history of trust and respect for that department, which has always been apolitical at our company. If Robert Isom intends to fool with that, he's going to get some serious blowback.

As has been stated before, this ain't over.

 

[EastUS]

Would it be defending 8 knuckleheads that are running around wasting gas to make a point?

"Just curious what was the reason if not the stated reason from the official source?" Why don't you ask the people involved? Oh..I forgot..you're "Too Good" to become a participating member.since there's nothing in it for you to do so. In that case? = Remain hopelessly ignorant and utterly irrelevant.

As for your "8 knuckleheads that are running around wasting gas" having any validity whatsoever?...All must immediately, and very charitably assume that:

1) You're an extremely experienced transatlantic captain who fully understands the environment and all related contingencies.
2) You're fully an expert on oceanic fuel planning based on your obvious experience from #1 above.
3) You've personal access to said "8 kuckleheads" collective flight and fuel plans and have made a full and proper analysis of the same.
4) Based upon your unquestionable personal expertise, and far superior knowledge base than that held by the "8 knuckleheads" who merely fly the atlantic routinely, and have done so for years...you've simply pointed out that they then "must" be "running around wasting gas"...........

Our only other reasonable option would be to assume that you're postings are indicative of an emotionally driven, extremely confused, ignorant and easilly manipulated tool that tap dances about in some Koolaide driven frenzy at management's slightest whim or utterance...or for reasons of your own bizarre little agendas....and that summary would constitute the very kindest possible notions herein.

As for your: "Would it be the ill conceived idea to go to the feds and use safety as a political weapon?" How do you conclude the referral of an attack on captain's authority, as properly and legally defined by the FAA, to that very same agency to be "ill conceived"? Who would you call?..The local High School Principal? If a corporate entity is striving to eradicate or encroach upon any portion of the laws established by the FAA...shouldn't that agency properly be made aware of the actions? How you can jump to this being supposedly "a political weapon" shows, to me at least, an utter disrespect for the proper governance of flight. I may sometimes disagree with "the Feds"...but the agency IS the legal barrier between disatrous chaos, entirely unsafe conditions......and all who fly. Would you be fine should the time ever come when ANY company could one day say: "That's all the fuel you're allowed for this flight"? Frankly..that you seem so cavalier about intrusions into the cockpit related to fuel planning's simply amazing to me, and gives me to think that you're entirely in the wrong business.

 

[cleardirect]

As for your "8 knuckleheads that are running around wasting gas" having any validity whatsoever?...All must immediately, and very charitably assume that:

1) You're an extremely experienced transatlantic captain who fully understands the environment and all related contingencies.
2) You're fully an expert on oceanic fuel planning based on your obvious experience from #1 above.
3) You've personal access to said "8 kuckleheads" collective flight and fuel plans and have made a full and proper analysis of the same.
4) Based upon your unquestionable personal expertise, and far superior knowledge base than that held by the "8 knuckleheads" who merely fly the atlantic routinely, and have done so for years...you've simply pointed out that they then "must" be "running around wasting gas"...........

Sorry East I do not need to be any of those things. Because you see there are highly experienced DISPATHCERS that looked at those flight plans and decided that there was enough fuel on board. Taking into account all of the variables required. Then there was the training department that trained those said experienced captains. They also looked at the fuel usage and came to the conclusion that these 8 pilots were way out of the norm. I did not pick them out at random. Some highly experienced people did looked at the facts and made that decision.

Our only other reasonable option would be to assume that you're postings are indicative of an emotionally driven, extremely confused, ignorant and easilly manipulated tool that tap dances about in some Koolaide driven frenzy at management's slightest whim or utterance...or for reasons of your own bizarre little agendas....and that summary would constitute the very kindest possible notions herein.

Typical of a response from you, highly insulting and a very personal attack.

Moderator can we have a ruling on this statement please. I believe that this is WAY over the line here.

 

[YVINTERN]

Typical of a response from you, highly insulting and a very personal attack.

Moderator can we have a ruling on this statement please. I believe that this is WAY over the line here.

Sure...let's get the MXC Instant Replay here...