US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[end_of_alpa]

But wait. YOUR majority vote determined the make up of YOUR MEC, who then agreed not to negotiate or be reasonable, and agreed to force binding arbitration, and then agreed to abide by the results.

So the original statement of you not being able to get past binding arbitration is more accurate. That's where your collective actions bit you in the a$$, and that is where your responsibility for this whole mess, (including the lack of unity) starts.

As usual, you and yours continue to "confuse" the "body politic" with the "political body". These are NOT the same. As usual with the liberal mind-set, blame the voter and not the promise....which is exactly what politics is all about.

The promises of the political body can only be confirmed from a vote of the body politic.

No vote....NO POLICY!!

How about this one:

Poly is latin for "many" and Tics are blood sucking creatures. Certainly describes the "promises" of the minions of ALPA.

Again, your lack of our legal concepts are pathetic. I hope you don't fly as bad as you debate.

Run along, little tic.

 

[boeingplt]

The desert judge had a best friend in the game.

Can this be substantiated?

 

[cleardirect]

767,

Do you really think Parker wants a joint contract? A joint contract will cost him 400 to 500 million per year. The only way Parker will get a joint contract is if he has a merger in the works....period! Team Tempe realizes how bad the blood is between the two pilot groups. The east is in a superior position right now and we are waiting for our LOA 93 pay restoration. If we are successful.......it is truly game over. Our east attrition will be kicking into high gear in 2012. We already have over 500 guys on LTD/Medicals.....200 check airmen....93 Mil....and 91 LOA. We have 2500 plus pilot positions on the current bid. In the next 14 years we will retire over 2800 pilots for age 65. Every month that goes by the east pilots will be booking up the east list. All new hires to the east will be Captains in a flash....I wonder how they would vote for a joint contract? If I were a new hire I would want to keep it separate forever! This will be fun to watch.

Remember the MDA law suit is still a problem for ALPA. Old St. Nic isn't going to like what ALPA tried to cover up! Watch what ALPA does!

Hate

I guess you guys keep forgetting. We are not ALPA any more. So who cares what ALPA does or does not do. Nicolau will only care if someone brings it to him. The MDA guys have no legal standing to bring it to him.

BTW. How many have said that the Nicolau is dead. So if you all believe that why bother going to Nicolau his award has no meaning. That is what you are telling us right. You guys will never have to live under the Nicolau. usapa is going to get you DOH right. usapa is going to keep you separate the rest of your careers right. usapa is going to lock the west into PHX right. This is what you are all telling us.

Where are those filings? June 20 the filings were due June 2. Still nothing with the court. Are you sure the MDA case is still active?

Try reading the final filings from the LOA 93. Do an honest comparison of the two. There is no chance of getting anything. The only thing the union has is a witness that thinks you should get it. No evidence, no documentation. You guys will be lucky to get out of there without getting spanked by the arbitrator.

What was it the company called this arbitration? Dangerously frivolous.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Let's just say we have at least as much and arguably more "skin in the game" than ROACLT claims to have. It's funny how having "skin in the game" is so important to some on the East when one disagrees with the East party line, but is never brought up if one agrees with the East position...

 

[end_of_alpa]

I guess you guys keep forgetting. We are not ALPA any more. So who cares what ALPA does or does not do. Nicolau will only care if someone brings it to him. The MDA guys have no legal standing to bring it to him.

BTW. How many have said that the Nicolau is dead. So if you all believe that why bother going to Nicolau his award has no meaning. That is what you are telling us right. You guys will never have to live under the Nicolau. usapa is going to get you DOH right. usapa is going to keep you separate the rest of your careers right. usapa is going to lock the west into PHX right. This is what you are all telling us.

Where are those filings? June 20 the filings were due June 2. Still nothing with the court. Are you sure the MDA case is still active?

Try reading the final filings from the LOA 93. Do an honest comparison of the two. There is no chance of getting anything. The only thing the union has is a witness that thinks you should get it. No evidence, no documentation. You guys will be lucky to get out of there without getting spanked by the arbitrator.

What a sound legal analysis from the ones who said USAPA's case for ripeness wouldn't materialize.

Next tine, hire HP_FA.

 

[BoeingBoy]

No vote....NO POLICY!!

So since you don't vote for every member of your state legislature, laws it passes aren't applicable to you? You don't vote for all members of Congress, so laws they pass don't pertain to you? You don't even really vote for the President (ever hear of the electoral college) so federal agencies can't effect you? Good luck with that "but I didn't vote for it" nonsense...

Jim

 

[767jetz]

Again, your lack of our legal concepts are pathetic. I hope you don't fly as bad as you debate.

Run along, little tic.

You guys are a laugh a minute!

Let's see if I got this straight. using the words of the east, you guys have gotten "spanked" since you entered mediation and all along the way. Nothing of worth has materialized from all of USAPA's promises. Then the 9th rules on ripeness, and ONLY ripeness, leaving the west open to sue your pants off if it becomes ripe. Suddenly you yell VICTORY! from the rooftops, and I'm the one with pathetic legal concepts?

Reminds me of GW Bush landing on an aircraft carrier, and claiming "victory" with the end of hostile action in Iraq. How long has the fighting continued since that day?

BTW, calling people names like "little tic" (aside from being against board rules and a ticket to the corn field) do nothing to bolster you credibility. People with nothing valid to say usually resort to name calling.

 

[767jetz]

You really should be concerned about those 3 year Captains at Continental........I can't imagine them being put ahead of my college roomate a 1991 UAL f/o on the 747.

You should get your facts straight. Just like UA once had 3 year captains, CO's 3 year captain are no longer.

At UA, a very senior 777/747 f/o is about the same seniority as an 757/767 captain. A junior 777/747 f/o is about 15-17 years or about A320 captain depending on domicile. At CO a 15-17 year pilot is probably a 757 (LNB) captain. So your college roommate will probably have some CO pilots with 15 years at his seniority level, and guys with his same 19 years from CO slightly ahead of him. In the end he will lose nothing because your friend will still be a 747 f/o with the seniority to bid 320 or even 737 captain. Maybe even 757 captain.

It's not about the raw seniority number. It's about what seat and fleet your seniority can hold at the combined airline. Regardless it won't be anything close to DOH.

 

[Hate2fly]

You should get your facts straight. Just like UA once had 3 year captains, CO's 3 year captain are no longer.

At UA, a very senior 777/747 f/o is about the same seniority as an 757/767 captain. A junior 777/747 f/o is about 15-17 years or about A320 captain depending on domicile. At CO a 15-17 year pilot is probably a 757 (LNB) captain. So your college roommate will probably have some CO pilots with 15 years at his seniority level, and guys with his same 19 years from CO slightly ahead of him. In the end he will lose nothing because your friend will still be a 747 f/o with the seniority to bid 320 or even 737 captain. Maybe even 757 captain.

It's not about the raw seniority number. It's about what seat and fleet your seniority can hold at the combined airline. Regardless it won't be anything close to DOH.

767,

College roomate was a 320 Captain for probably 10 years. Got bumped back to 747 f/o for the type.....just in case the place tanked. Since you have not experienced a merger at a big airline yet get ready for the right sizing to begin. It won't be pretty for those of you losing years of seniority. But guess what Continental was a growing thriving airline and your UAL was a failed airline. I can't wait to hear J. Freund switch his tune during this merger. Good Luck and remember when you guys are ready to dump ALPA...give us a call.

Hate

 

[nycbusdriver]

That is how I read it also.

Simple really, come up with something the West will not sue over, and usapa will not get sued.

There you have it. I agree.

I think USAPA can indeed come up with a Section 22 list that meets the mandate of the C&BLs, and make at least 50% plus one of the PHX-based pilots pleased. Patience is growing thin on both sides of this dispute. It will be a cake-walk for BallotPoint to independently verify just how the PHX pilots vote on any new contract. If there is enough westie support for a contract proposal, your DFR lawsuit will be sunk before you leave the dock. If half or more PHX pilots vote for the new contract, give it up. If the Angry West Pilot Club then wants to sue, I would love to see it happen.

 

[oscarjazz]

767,

College roomate was a 320 Captain for probably 10 years. Got bumped back to 747 f/o for the type.....just in case the place tanked. Since you have not experienced a merger at a big airline yet get ready for the right sizing to begin. It won't be pretty for those of you losing years of seniority. But guess what Continental was a growing thriving airline and your UAL was a failed airline. I can't wait to hear J. Freund switch his tune during this merger. Good Luck and remember when you guys are ready to dump ALPA...give us a call.

Hate

Current market cap of UAUA is $4.0 billion and CAL is $3.46 billion, so the investment community disagrees with your analysis. At the time of the LCC merger, the market cap of AAA was $0 as it was in bankruptcy and the shares were worthless.

I guess we are getting right sized at DAL since they are hiring 300+ pilots this year and looks like 600+ next year.

USAPA has made your airline toxic to the industry and I would bet that the parts are now worth more than the whole. A fragmentation will probably be the best option once the UA/CO merger is finalized. LCC will have no real place in the market after that occurs. I guess if DAL buys part of LCC we should just use our "wide range of reasonableness" and declare that all LCC pilots are new hires and staple them to the bottom. That isn't arbitrary or discriminatory since it applies to each pilot from LCC in the same fashion. That is your argument right?

 

[AWE Dog]

Current market cap of UAUA is $4.0 billion and CAL is $3.46 billion, so the investment community disagrees with your analysis. At the time of the LCC merger, the market cap of AAA was $0 as it was in bankruptcy and the shares were worthless.

I guess we are getting right sized at DAL since they are hiring 300+ pilots this year and looks like 600+ next year.

USAPA has made your airline toxic to the industry and I would bet that the parts are now worth more than the whole. A fragmentation will probably be the best option once the UA/CO merger is finalized. LCC will have no real place in the market after that occurs. I guess if DAL buys part of LCC we should just use our "wide range of reasonableness" and declare that all LCC pilots are new hires and staple them to the bottom. That isn't arbitrary or discriminatory since it applies to each pilot from LCC in the same fashion. That is your argument right?

Oscar, Tell us how DAL treated the PanAm pilots.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I guess if DAL buys part of LCC we should just use our "wide range of reasonableness" and declare that all LCC pilots are new hires and staple them to the bottom.

Yes, indeed. I think you should go right ahead and try that.

Then, when the reality of McCaskill-Bond sets in, and its preferred use of Allegheny-Mohawk protections, I will be happy to take the left seat of a DL 777 and head for the orient.

I'm waiting anxiously to be "stapled" to the DL list. LOL!

 

[767jetz]

Current market cap of UAUA is $4.0 billion and CAL is $3.46 billion, so the investment community disagrees with your analysis. At the time of the LCC merger, the market cap of AAA was $0 as it was in bankruptcy and the shares were worthless.

I guess we are getting right sized at DAL since they are hiring 300+ pilots this year and looks like 600+ next year.

Oscarjazz,
Don't try reasoning with them. It's futile. They only see what validates their view of the world.

As for your view of the world, Hate2fly, it sounds pretty bitter. Don't you worry about us here at the new United. We'll be just fine. Like DAL, we'll be bringing back pilots to the property soon. And we'll get our integration right without DOH just like DAL did. The "right sizing" you refer to doesn't happen when you combine two complimentary airlines like UA & CO. (Something I know you can't understand at US) I know you and some others here would like nothing better than to see UA fail so we can join you in your misery. It's not going to happen. But if holding on to that bitterness helps you sleep at night, well... carry on then.

Happy Father's Day.

 

[767jetz]

But guess what Continental was a growing thriving airline and your UAL was a failed airline.

More garbage from someone who likes to play fast and loose with the facts. Check out UA's recent performance metrics in customer satisfaction, intent to re-book, on time departures, on time arrivals, cost declines, revenue increases, passenger volume, or any other. Then look at what the experts are saying about economic recovery and the recovery of business travel going forward.

Your "failed airline" theory is fantasy at best. The facts do not support it. The new UA is a merger of equals. Your merger was certainly not since your market cap at the time was zero.

I will concede that CO has a far better employee culture due in large part to their employee/management relationship, and I hope with our new management that will be incorporated into the new UA.