US Pilots labor thread 5/3-

[Edward]

With over 500 posts in the other thread, it's time for a new topic. Please do NOT post until you read & understand the board rules posted at the top.

Personal remarks & off topic posts removed with out comment & the poster is subject to time off.

 

[signals]

Since the other Labor thread was closed before I replied, here is my comment:

People who have said earlier that other pilots from other airlines support their cause must be getting support to their faces and behind their backs. A couple of Delta pilots laughed and said they are glad they aren't US. A United pilot called your cause 'futile!' A jetBlue pilot said that they are glad they aren't union and don't have the problem. Back in the day, A Northwest pilot just smiled with a bit of laughter. Having 2 in house unions sort of defeats the purpose of a union. You are divided and should be divions...you get the picture! If you play out your scenario to any union in the world first they would laugh. Then they would wonder if it can happen to them.

I know for a fact, that ALL unions need support(even if just morally) from outside unions to show solidarity. Teamsters, AFL-CIO,. IBEW, UAW, etc., for example, must tell their members that a union fight is a just cause. How many outside unions support USAPA? USAPA would be great and strong ONLY IF EVERYONE WAS ONBOARD WITH IT!!! Apparently seniority is all that matters and even though some delay the inevitable, the inevitable will come!

To paraphrase a song:
There is unrest at US Airways
And the other airlines all have fled
Because the East want their seniority
And the West just shake their heads!

Good Luck to you all and I hope you can iron this touchy issue out to the benefit of all. :unsure:

 

[HPDriver]

"About half of the east retirements come from F/O’s. So there is no upgrade involved."


Guess they'll figure that out in 2.5 years.

 

[HPDriver]

To paraphrase a song:
There is unrest at US Airways
And the other airlines all have fled
Because the East want their seniority
And the West just shake their heads!

Good Luck to you all and I hope you can iron this touchy issue out to the benefit of all. :unsure:

You forget the last line:

And remind USAPA of the injunction against using DOH for anything.

 

[signals]

You forget the last line:

And remind USAPA of the injunction against using DOH for anything.

As warped as that thinking sounds I agree with it. My union is AFSCME and if I were to transfer to another AFSCME union, my retirement years would count but my DOH would start at the lowest part of the totem pole. It's unfortunate that US pilots were thrust into a different ALPA but that's how the cookie crumbles. B)

 

[nic4us]

My union is AFSCME and if I were to transfer to another AFSCME union, my retirement years would count but my DOH would start at the lowest part of the totem pole. It's unfortunate that US pilots were thrust into a different ALPA but that's how the cookie crumbles. B)

ALPA merger policy is no less appropriate than any other unions merger policy. Unlike usapa's merger policy, which was specifically written to try and steal seniority in our current integration, ALPA merger policy is designed to best suit the needs of its members, similar to your AFSCME transfer policy.

Contray to the false claims made by east posters, all unionized employees at LCC were integrated by their unions merger policy, not DOH. Those policies may have included DOH or a system leading up to arbitration ( as was the case for the pilots and dispatchers), but the policies themselves were made to best suit their members, and were followed in every instance. Only usapa thinks it can change the rules after the fact and not abide by the results of the policy that governed pilot integration.

The problem is, the "cookie crumbled" and usapa refuses to acknowledge there is no longer a cookie. They still look at this integration as though the West pilot group is being added to their seniority list. Had that been the case, perhaps a DOH integration would have been appropriate, however, that is not the case. The arbitrator ruled in a fair and equitable manner based on the facts of the situation and the policy designed to meet its members needs for their particular situation.

usapa simply wants to put its hands back in the West's cookie jar.

 

[Black Swan]

You forget the last line:

And remind USAPA of the injunction against using DOH for anything.

Waiting, waiting for the 9th. A lot of very unusual rulings coming from the Desert. Some need to be set straight......

 

[Pi brat]

Cleardirect,

In the closed thread you talked about the advantages of getting a DL type contract here. You might be correct with your logic, but did you hear Doug's state of the airline address? He said, again, that we do not have the same revenue stream as the DLs of the world and couldn't afford their costs. He said we could do okay but had to remain at a cost advantage. What makes you think we will be getting a DL parity contract?

 

[HPDriver]

What makes you think we will be getting a DL parity contract?

Because that's what he offered Cleary.

 

[cleardirect]

Cleardirect,

In the closed thread you talked about the advantages of getting a DL type contract here. You might be correct with your logic, but did you hear Doug's state of the airline address? He said, again, that we do not have the same revenue stream as the DLs of the world and couldn't afford their costs. He said we could do okay but had to remain at a cost advantage. What makes you think we will be getting a DL parity contract?

Because that has become the industry standard. CAL offered DAL plus $1.00. If Parker offers anything substantially less than that he knows it will not pass. Why would he waste his time or ours? Usapa has stated that their goal is industry standard. Are they capable of delivering that contract with those rates or not?

It is USAPA’s responsibility to negotiate a new improved contract. If they fail to generate the leverage needed or fail to bring a contract with similar rates usapa is done as a bargaining agent. If usapa fails to bring a new contract in a timely manner usapa is done as the bargaining agent.

As I pointed out attrition will get some pilots improvements but not all. Parker knows that he has failed so far in this merger. The only way to fix it now or to get a merger done is a lot of cash for the pilots.

If usapa or the east pilots wait another 2 1/2 years for attrition to kick in, then another 2-3 years to capture some of the upgrades. Does anyone truly believe that this pilots group will continue to stay on LOA 93 wages with usapa in charge for 6 1/2- 7 years without a contract or any victory? How many east pilots are willing to work under LOA 93 for 12 years only to hold off an arbitrated seniority list?

How many east pilots want to retire on LOA 93 rates? How many captains want to remain on LOA 93 rates and work rules for another 5 years?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Because that's what he offered Cleary.

Oh, so now the CEO negotiates directly with the Union President.

Yea, you must have a GREAT source of info.

 

[Pi brat]

Because that has become the industry standard. CAL offered DAL plus $1.00. If Parker offers anything substantially less than that he knows it will not pass. Why would he waste his time or ours? Usapa has stated that their goal is industry standard. Are they capable of delivering that contract with those rates or not?

It is USAPA’s responsibility to negotiate a new improved contract. If they fail to generate the leverage needed or fail to bring a contract with similar rates usapa is done as a bargaining agent. If usapa fails to bring a new contract in a timely manner usapa is done as the bargaining agent.

As I pointed out attrition will get some pilots improvements but not all. Parker knows that he has failed so far in this merger. The only way to fix it now or to get a merger done is a lot of cash for the pilots.

If usapa or the east pilots wait another 2 1/2 years for attrition to kick in, then another 2-3 years to capture some of the upgrades. Does anyone truly believe that this pilots group will continue to stay on LOA 93 wages with usapa in charge for 6 1/2- 7 years without a contract or any victory? How many east pilots are willing to work under LOA 93 for 12 years only to hold off an arbitrated seniority list?

How many east pilots want to retire on LOA 93 rates? How many captains want to remain on LOA 93 rates and work rules for another 5 years?

You're kidding, right? Parker loves this. I said I didn't fault your logic, only your conclusion.

 

[Pi brat]

Because that's what he offered Cleary.

When, and for what?

 

[OTTER574]

Oh, so now the CEO negotiates directly with the Union President.

Yea, you must have a GREAT source of info.

Please explain a GREAT source of information so that usapa president mike cleary and usapa vp randy mowrey from the parker meeting can clearly explain usapa hired council lee seham buffoon attempt before the 9th circuit court of appeals?

 

[luvthe9]

Cleardirect,

In the closed thread you talked about the advantages of getting a DL type contract here. You might be correct with your logic, but did you hear Doug's state of the airline address? He said, again, that we do not have the same revenue stream as the DLs of the world and couldn't afford their costs. He said we could do okay but had to remain at a cost advantage. What makes you think we will be getting a DL parity contract?

So if we don't have the same revenue stream as DL, how does Parker justify taking a much better pay package than any other CEO?