USA Today/More Disturbing News for US Airways
- Thread starter Jimmy Neutron
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US1YFARE
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- Mar 31, 2004
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Although I am totally uninformed as to all the reasons why so many bags are mishandled thruout the system I did see the situation covered on CNN. As they scanned thru the airport and Pax(customers for you BOB) waiting for bags, the reporter said flat out to look in the mirror. Customers are looking for low fares, low fares and more low fares and until they are willing to pay more overall this will be the norm. Im not saying our FF are responsbile because they do pay the higher fares but in general the public is not willing to pay more and lost bags are one of the repercussions(sp?.) Lower fares make it less feasible to pay employees a decent wage to start with the airline or retain those that have the experience and dedication. Not to mention money to pay for all the other things have been mentioned here belt bag breaks, baggage carts,...etc.
US1YFARE
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- Mar 31, 2004
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OK, but then why wasn't everything perfect when they were gouging both VFF and regular Joe Schmoe traveler in PHL pre-WN days????? The low fare nonsense is just another excuse for a major problem...although, I will admit that since HP has come to PHL, getting bags in PHL is faster and there are more spot checks of planes for cleanliness in the past.
Hopefelly things will continue to improve in PHL and everyone is committed to making it better. Maybe the arrogance of former US management who didnt care about these issues was part of the problem. What I stated before came from a CNN reporter and at least employees werent being blamed for this problem. Again, I will state I am not that informed on how this situation go so out of hand but anyone in HP managment that has been asked to address this issue has said it is being addressed and tbey understand it is an important issue. When it will be rectified is anyones guess.
Dog Wonder
Veteran
One indication of the priority PAWOBs has, compared to on-time performance, is the US Daily no longer reports PAWOB numbers. It used to be in the US Airways Today.
Given the inherent conflict between loading everything you need to on the flight and getting it out on time it appears the company chooses on-time.
Given the inherent conflict between loading everything you need to on the flight and getting it out on time it appears the company chooses on-time.
PHXMama -
You are way off base here. This is not a "you get what you pay for" scenario it is a case of inferior airplanes flying high density routes, manpower/equipment shortages, facilities and no accountability by outside sources.
Breaking it down.....We have airplanes (RJ's) flying high routes where they are unable to take a full customer load and carry all of the bags. Ask anyone that was on the conference calls over the holidays how many TRUCK loads of bags we shuttled around the North East because we couldn't carry all the customers and bags. Many cities that previously had mainline service are now reduced to all express. Once you have to start pulling bags/cargo to ensure you can move people, it becomes a snowball rolling down hill. Say we operate 6 flights a day PHL-ALB, all on RJ's and they are full all day. We have to leave 15 bags off the first flight due to W & B. You won't be able to put them on the next flight because of the same W & B issues and take an additional 15 on the next. As the day progresses, you now have 90 ALB bags in PHL with no way to move them. Multiply this by the number of markets in the NE and SE that have all express service. We were litterally trucking bags all over the place.
Manpower/ Equipment shortages - This has been covered over and over. Previously, we had severe manpower / equipment issues - most of which have been resolved.
Facilities - Bag Belt issues continue to be an issue through out the system. Ask anyone who works in BOS on a Satruday, CLT international on the weekends or PHL on a weekly basis. Bag Belt break downs have become a norm and have caused a tremendous amount of baggage problems. Bag belt reliability is getting better, but continues to be an issue.
Accountability - In all of the DOT reports/consumer watch dog reports, etc, airlines are held accountable for everything, even things that are beyond their control. when will the TSA be held accountable for bags that miss their flights due to staffing shortages? When will TSA be held accountable for customers that miss their flights due to staffing shortages at security check points? When will TSA be held accountable for customers when airlines are operating into/out of an airport and TSA releases all of their people and litterally closes the airport due to the lack of screeners? When will the FAA be held accountable for their inability to maintain airport traffic on severe clear days? When will the FAA and the government be held accountable for delays that happen due to antiquated equipment?
All of these things have an impact on airlines and their ability to operate. Some are our fault and in our control, some are not.
Mark, Thanx for you informed response. First,let me say for the THIRD time that I am NOT informed about this situation and was just posting what I heard on CNN. Frankly, it seems you always have some really good insight into some of the operations here at US so Im sure theres a lot of truth to be had. My question now is "Why is someone not yelling and screaming and pointing to the TSA?" This is not the first time I have this but as of yet I have heard no one mentioning that they are being held responsible for US PWOBs. Airlines are fined for various things why not fine the TSA and let them reinburse the customer and deliver their bags? Some of the other reasons behind bag issues I still see as a money issue. Rjs flyng routes. Why are RJs flying if not for financial reasons and if RJs were not flying there would be no W and B issues-ie no bags left off planes. Manpower -we all know that if you pay enough there would be no shortage of manpower-again I see it being financial. Poor equipment? Fixing it or replacing it costs money. Basically from my point of view and JMHO if customers were willing to pay more money to trvl and airlines were making a decent profit I would hope some of the money would have been used to diffuse some of these issues before they happened. I just think so much energy has been spent on lowering costs that PWOBs are an unfortunate byproduct. Mark, again I enjoy reading your posts. Regards, Mama
Mama...
Believe me, every time we have issues with TSA it is documented and run up a flag pole. The bottomline? Customers don't care who is responsible for their bags arriving late, they just want their belongings when they get there. As a company, I believe that TSA shoud be rsponsible for reimburing costs associated with late bags. You never know what kind of back door agreements are in place to recoup those costs either via tax credits or something like that. There may be things there that we just don't know about....then again, may not be.
I have seen several discussion about chargin customers to check a bag. I believe AA is testing this in various cities and that US has a plan to roll this out, but doesn't want to be the first to do it system wide. In my eyes, this is a huge mistake. Imagine what you will here in Baggage Serivce, Central Baggage, Res, etc when a customer has to pay ADDITIONAL money to check a bag and it is lost. Imagine what the carry-on situation will be like in an airplane when everyone tries to carry the kitchen sink on board.
Airlines are becoming more and more like banks. They want to charge you for every service that you use, but give you very little in return. So in the end, fares will seem reasonable but then you have to add the $3.00 per bag, the $7-10.00 per meal, the $5.00 for a pillow and blanket, $5.00 for a headset, $5.00 for an adult beverage and $1.00 for a soda/juice. So for a family of 4, it could cost you 104.00 to check 4 bags, eat a meal, get a pillow, blanket, headset, 2 adult beverages and 2 juices! That is just for a one way non-stop flight! But that 200.00 round trip ticket still looks good, doesn't it. LOL
When we maintained our bag belts, we rarely had issues with equipment breaking down. Now that it is contracted out, it is a bigger issue. Preventive maintenance is gone by the wayside and you only get things fixed when there is a problem. This is a true depiction of "you get what you pay for".
When you say "if customers were willing to pay more money to trvl and airlines were making a decent profit I would hope some of the money would have been used to diffuse some of these issues before they happened", I don't completely agree. Look at WN and B6, they charge less and make a profit. Why? Because they have their cost structure under control. What we (legacy carriers) have to do is get our costs under control and not use our Customers as a pinata all the time. When you sell a seat on an airplane for $200.00 round trip, do you think that is a fare price? What about when you sell the same ticket for $1600.00? Rationalizing fares was a tremendous boost to HP and slowly but surely those fares are being tested in the east. If the test markets test positive, then rationalizing fares will happen on the east side too. Before we start asking our customers to "pay more" we need to make sure that our in-house costs are under control. That we are operating as lean and as efficiently as our competitors.
Believe me, every time we have issues with TSA it is documented and run up a flag pole. The bottomline? Customers don't care who is responsible for their bags arriving late, they just want their belongings when they get there. As a company, I believe that TSA shoud be rsponsible for reimburing costs associated with late bags. You never know what kind of back door agreements are in place to recoup those costs either via tax credits or something like that. There may be things there that we just don't know about....then again, may not be.
I have seen several discussion about chargin customers to check a bag. I believe AA is testing this in various cities and that US has a plan to roll this out, but doesn't want to be the first to do it system wide. In my eyes, this is a huge mistake. Imagine what you will here in Baggage Serivce, Central Baggage, Res, etc when a customer has to pay ADDITIONAL money to check a bag and it is lost. Imagine what the carry-on situation will be like in an airplane when everyone tries to carry the kitchen sink on board.
Airlines are becoming more and more like banks. They want to charge you for every service that you use, but give you very little in return. So in the end, fares will seem reasonable but then you have to add the $3.00 per bag, the $7-10.00 per meal, the $5.00 for a pillow and blanket, $5.00 for a headset, $5.00 for an adult beverage and $1.00 for a soda/juice. So for a family of 4, it could cost you 104.00 to check 4 bags, eat a meal, get a pillow, blanket, headset, 2 adult beverages and 2 juices! That is just for a one way non-stop flight! But that 200.00 round trip ticket still looks good, doesn't it. LOL
When we maintained our bag belts, we rarely had issues with equipment breaking down. Now that it is contracted out, it is a bigger issue. Preventive maintenance is gone by the wayside and you only get things fixed when there is a problem. This is a true depiction of "you get what you pay for".
When you say "if customers were willing to pay more money to trvl and airlines were making a decent profit I would hope some of the money would have been used to diffuse some of these issues before they happened", I don't completely agree. Look at WN and B6, they charge less and make a profit. Why? Because they have their cost structure under control. What we (legacy carriers) have to do is get our costs under control and not use our Customers as a pinata all the time. When you sell a seat on an airplane for $200.00 round trip, do you think that is a fare price? What about when you sell the same ticket for $1600.00? Rationalizing fares was a tremendous boost to HP and slowly but surely those fares are being tested in the east. If the test markets test positive, then rationalizing fares will happen on the east side too. Before we start asking our customers to "pay more" we need to make sure that our in-house costs are under control. That we are operating as lean and as efficiently as our competitors.
Mark, Thanx again for the response. I would just think that due to all the bad PR the airline spokesman would be out front screaming for the TSA to do their part. I mean how many times have we heard about the baggage meltdown and how poor the airlines are and bad customer service. If we are not totally responsible than lets not take the hit for it. If as you suggest there is some back door agreement, I could understand not pointing the finger but in the mind of the trvling public we are totally at fault. Wn and B6 charge less and have made a profit for different reasons. Fuel hedging,new aircraft, routing, and types of aircraft. I just dont think in the years ahead with labor costs and fuel they will continue to post such numbers. I think the other airlines have lowered costs and dug deeper just to stay afloat. Wn has never had to made the hard decisions not that they dont run a good operation but with the hedging its given them a leg up. I can appreciate good business sense and applaud them but what next? Do you have any idea what is in the fire for cleaning up the bag issue? Or how long to look for a significant decrease in lost bags? Good discussion.
Short answer Mama....
The staffing and equipment issues have been addresssed and will hopefully never get to the levels we have seen previously.
Bag belts are being addressed. There are less and less bag belt issues, but there are still some. It will be an on going issue with certain airports to keep pressure on them to maintain the systems better.
TSA....well....It is the governemnt. Some times dealing with them is like beating your head against the wall. We are pressuring stations like PHL and MCO to properly staff the appropriate positions. In irregular ops planning, stations are requested to check with airport authorities AND TSA to make sure that they have contigency plans in place to accomdate our planned operations.
I am not sure how they are planning on addressing the issues of express W&B issues. These last two account for the largest majority of our bag issues. That is why you will see AA Eagle and Comair reporting significantly higher PAWOB rates then their mainline counter parts. As an industry we are going to have to figure out how to address those issues. effectively.
The staffing and equipment issues have been addresssed and will hopefully never get to the levels we have seen previously.
Bag belts are being addressed. There are less and less bag belt issues, but there are still some. It will be an on going issue with certain airports to keep pressure on them to maintain the systems better.
TSA....well....It is the governemnt. Some times dealing with them is like beating your head against the wall. We are pressuring stations like PHL and MCO to properly staff the appropriate positions. In irregular ops planning, stations are requested to check with airport authorities AND TSA to make sure that they have contigency plans in place to accomdate our planned operations.
I am not sure how they are planning on addressing the issues of express W&B issues. These last two account for the largest majority of our bag issues. That is why you will see AA Eagle and Comair reporting significantly higher PAWOB rates then their mainline counter parts. As an industry we are going to have to figure out how to address those issues. effectively.
Mark, It sounds like Tempe has really started to address the bag issue and is trying to prevent future meltdowns. This a good thing. Your're right the TSA is a government entity and we know what that means, a whole lot of inefficiency. Maybe some headway is being made if management is talking to the TSA and demanding better of them. I also believe the express market W and B problems is something the industry as a whole is dealing with. Will they restrict the number of pax trying to book on them? It seems this is the only way to prevent chaos and having to truck bags around the system. Do you know how much booking less seats would cost vs having to truck bags around,home delivery,vouchers(you know there will be complaints) and all the time-(paying employees to deal with pax) and the intangible poor customer service in the trvling publics eye? That does not include being on the top of the list for lost bags in the industry. Im sure they have some analysis somewhere that shows all of this in a dollar amount. Im curious to see what that figure might be. Regards.
Let’s not forget how unreadable the express operation is. A lot of XLD and Delays. You have to reroute the passengers and there bags and then you send the baggage reroute message to an out source ramp. A lot of baggage claims are reroute passengers arrived without their bags originating on express.
The four worst airlines in terms of lost bags all operate as feeder carriers for the major airlines. Atlantic Southeast Airlines, which operates at Delta Connection, had 17.4 lost bag reports per 1,000 customers, by far the worst of the 19 ranked carriers.
Another Delta Connection carrier, Comair, was next with 10.75 lost bag reports per 1,000 passengers, followed by a rate of 10.25 reports at American Eagle, owned by American Airlines parent AMR Corp (Research), for which it serves as a feeder.
Skywest (Research), which flies as Delta Connection and United Express and which purchased Atlantic Southeast from Delta Air Lines (Research) in September just before Delta's bankruptcy, is the only other airline with more than 10 lost bag reports per 1,000 passengers, with 10.06.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/17/news/compa...ource=aol_quote
Another Delta Connection carrier, Comair, was next with 10.75 lost bag reports per 1,000 passengers, followed by a rate of 10.25 reports at American Eagle, owned by American Airlines parent AMR Corp (Research), for which it serves as a feeder.
Skywest (Research), which flies as Delta Connection and United Express and which purchased Atlantic Southeast from Delta Air Lines (Research) in September just before Delta's bankruptcy, is the only other airline with more than 10 lost bag reports per 1,000 passengers, with 10.06.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/17/news/compa...ource=aol_quote
here is my question:
Do our wholly owned express carriers report their own numbers to the DOT? Do our contract carriers each report their own numbers? Could part of the reason the mainline numbers are so high be from miscoded bag claims?
Do our wholly owned express carriers report their own numbers to the DOT? Do our contract carriers each report their own numbers? Could part of the reason the mainline numbers are so high be from miscoded bag claims?
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