Voted IN

[Frank Szabo]

Tulsa mechanic 9

you think 48 votes = victory........think again


only a fool believes in " testing the depth of the water with both feet"

Tulsa mechanic 9

you think 48 votes = victory........think again


only a fool believes in " testing the depth of the water with both feet"

From the tone of the posts, I'd guess Tulsamechanic9 is Flatline part deax. It matters not - 48 votes isn't exactly a mandate even though some will attempt to spin it as such.

 

[TWU informer]

"market wage readjustment - based on industry compensation - after 36 months"

If the industry readjusts itself do to our contract, Is there a good chance we could be taking another pay cut after 36 months? :huh:

AA got the gold mine, We got the Shaft!

Yes, or the TWU is incapable of negotiating so they want to collect the dues from us but let someone else negotiate our pay.
They suck so bad they have to use a "me too" in Bankruptcy and this wage adjusment is their failure to lead the industry but let some other union negotiate our wages while they collect the dues money. The Fockers Suck, I tell you.

 

[TWU informer]

From the tone of the posts, I'd guess Tulsamechanic9 is Flatline part deax. It matters not - 48 votes isn't exactly a mandate even though some will attempt to spin it as such.

What is interesting is that we have yet to see "Certified Official Results" signed and confirmed by Ballot Point.

Something smells!

 

[AC Tynker]

Gone? No. Reduced? Yes.
With such low labor costs it wouldnt make sense to get rid of Tulsa. Over the last year I've been approached on several occasions from different levels of management on the need to seperate the line from OH. I'm not really in favor of it for philisophical reasons but i feel that the structure we have and the results of this last vote leave us no choice, our affiliation with Tulsa is simply too costly, if we were non-union we could expect to earn $20,000 a year more. Tulsa will continue to use their roll call vote at the table and majority membership to ensure that this never changes. Sam let the line stations know that he felt that the line mechanics had no right to try and share their opinions on the contract with his guys, fine, then get your own contract but if we all have to live under the deal dont dare tell us that we cant do whatever we need to do to get our opinions out ther to all stakeholders. In other words under the current structure being in the TWU costs us around $20,000 a year (Plus $600 in dues) compared to being non-union, thats a hell of a lot to pay for just cause and the right to grieve, especially for 90+% that do their jobs and nevr get into trouble anyway. We need a better deal on the line.

If the line guys do what they need to do seperate contracts may happen, if we dont then AA gets the added bonus of not only keeping critical work in house at low rates but also getting line maintenance at super low rates. When we met with USAIR Management two weeks ago they were bragging about how much their maintenance numbers have improved, despite dragging out contract talks and paying their old workforce such lousy wages. I questioned them as to the age of their fleet, they admitted that the age of the fleet had declined but said that most of the improvement was due to their happy, motivated workforce. they showed vidioes about some sort of suckass program where a guy won a car and all these happy smiling (old) faces at these management -employee meetings.. (The average age is 55, they are even older than us, I guess thats proof of testosterone declining as we get older).

So forget about Tulsa going away, it aint happening and concentrate on letting the company know that 75% of the line said NO and we meant it. We arent out of BK yet and we wont have any problem supporting the pilots effforts should the Judge abrogate. Let Tulsa keep their deal that they approved by 75% but they need to talk to us if they want their operation to compete.

Bob you really need to realize you are not competing in some reality show like Survivor where you build factions and manufacture information with a twist of fabrication from half truths. One thing you need to realize or remember is as much as you have shared your vast knowledge of how you know that the TWU International is in all levels of managements pocket and how they do the companies bidding on everything. Why would they even think about approaching you about anything instead of Management just giving Jim Little a call on the supposed 2 way direct hotline to have him get Overhaul and Line Contracts split immediately. According to you International makes everything they need to happen anyway minus locals input no matter whether they concur or not. I am sure if this were true you would have told the world before now in one of your tell all informing the mechanics to try to secure No Vote posts.

Yourself and your cohorts especially Peterson are totally in favor of a split. In fact one of your negotiating team faction members said it in a room of Union only negotiators.

You stated "Sam let the line stations know that he felt that the line mechanics had no right to try and share their opinions on the contract with his guys". If even true I would be willing to bet that statement is taken out of context or the whole story isn't included.

Last week or the week before you were being called out on your Line vs Overhaul which was invariably met with your posts that there is no hatred of Overhaul and no plan if Line were to outnumber Overhaul. I see how you are trying to make it out like it all just came about because the way this vote went.

As much as your stories have changed I am beginning to think you have a hard time remembering what you have typed in the past because Contradiction seems to be your middle name. Although I really thought you possessed decent qualities of being a leader, but you seem to be showing your true colors of playing both ends toward the middle and don't seem to take into account anyone that gets sacrificed in the process. Sam Cirri has more positive leadership qualities in his little finger then you seem to have on your best day by being Genuine and truthful and cares about the membership as a whole which anyone can argue and put their spin on it. At the end of the day he and John did the best that they could with the cards that were dealt and having to watch theirs and our backs from your faction trying to play like I said your idiotic Survivor type games when you are playing with livelihoods in the world we live in today that is less forgiving than it was a few years ago. You also may have a few people in TULE profusely apologizing thinking you are are great and out for their best interests but you don't have everyone fooled. Where do you and others get off thinking Line is above Overhaul when it actually goes hand in hand when done right just look at the successful carriers that have their variation. Both entities are fairly equal in pay.

 

[TWU informer]

Yourself and your cohorts especially Peterson are totally in favor of a split. In fact one of your negotiating team faction members said it in a room of Union only negotiators.

You stated "Sam let the line stations know that he felt that the line mechanics had no right to try and share their opinions on the contract with his guys". If even true I would be willing to bet that statement is taken out of context or the whole story isn't included.

Last week or the week before you were being called out on your Line vs Overhaul which was invariably met with your posts that there is no hatred of Overhaul and no plan if Line were to outnumber Overhaul. I see how you are trying to make it out like it all just came about because the way this vote went.

Were you there and hear these claimed statements by negotiators you are throwing around as fact?

Or what is your source to speak in such a matter of fact?

When you claim that a statement is "FACT", then I need to know your source.

I suspect you are getting your "facts" from the real wedge drivers of this division.

 

[AC Tynker]

Were you there are hear these claimed statements by negotiators you are throwing around as fact?

Or what is your source to speak in such a matter of fact?

Don't worry about it, none of this was directed toward you.

 

[TWU informer]

Don't worry about it, none of this was directed toward you.

Not directed towards me but myself and others read it.

And more than once you have responded to my postings not directed at you either.
Ripping after or questioning another's post seem to be common policy here by you and others.

Here though, you stated something was "FACT"

Yourself and your cohorts especially Peterson are totally in favor of a split. In fact one of your negotiating team faction members said it in a room of Union only negotiators.

So what is your source?
Were you there? Or are you repeating the fear mongering rhetoric coming from Pine Street?

 

[jetmechjer]

Bob you really need to realize you are not competing in some reality show like Survivor where you build factions and manufacture information with a twist of fabrication from half truths. One thing you need to realize or remember is as much as you have shared your vast knowledge of how you know that the TWU International is in all levels of managements pocket and how they do the companies bidding on everything. Why would they even think about approaching you about anything instead of Management just giving Jim Little a call on the supposed 2 way direct hotline to have him get Overhaul and Line Contracts split immediately. According to you International makes everything they need to happen anyway minus locals input no matter whether they concur or not. I am sure if this were true you would have told the world before now in one of your tell all informing the mechanics to try to secure No Vote posts.

Yourself and your cohorts especially Peterson are totally in favor of a split. In fact one of your negotiating team faction members said it in a room of Union only negotiators.

You stated "Sam let the line stations know that he felt that the line mechanics had no right to try and share their opinions on the contract with his guys". If even true I would be willing to bet that statement is taken out of context or the whole story isn't included.

Last week or the week before you were being called out on your Line vs Overhaul which was invariably met with your posts that there is no hatred of Overhaul and no plan if Line were to outnumber Overhaul. I see how you are trying to make it out like it all just came about because the way this vote went.

As much as your stories have changed I am beginning to think you have a hard time remembering what you have typed in the past because Contradiction seems to be your middle name. Although I really thought you possessed decent qualities of being a leader, but you seem to be showing your true colors of playing both ends toward the middle and don't seem to take into account anyone that gets sacrificed in the process. Sam Cirri has more positive leadership qualities in his little finger then you seem to have on your best day by being Genuine and truthful and cares about the membership as a whole which anyone can argue and put their spin on it. At the end of the day he and John did the best that they could with the cards that were dealt and having to watch theirs and our backs from your faction trying to play like I said your idiotic Survivor type games when you are playing with livelihoods in the world we live in today that is less forgiving than it was a few years ago. You also may have a few people in TULE profusely apologizing thinking you are are great and out for their best interests but you don't have everyone fooled. Where do you and others get off thinking Line is above Overhaul when it actually goes hand in hand when done right just look at the successful carriers that have their variation. Both entities are fairly equal in pay.

Peterson represents overhaul and he does it very well! He represents DWH which is overhaul and is going to grow immensely as compared to Tulsa shinking. So there is a difference between the 75% sheep in Tulsa and the 25% real men in Tulsa and DWH.

 

[LAX AMT]

Gone? No. Reduced? Yes.
With such low labor costs it wouldnt make sense to get rid of Tulsa. Over the last year I've been approached on several occasions from different levels of management on the need to seperate the line from OH. I'm not really in favor of it for philisophical reasons but i feel that the structure we have and the results of this last vote leave us no choice, our affiliation with Tulsa is simply too costly, if we were non-union we could expect to earn $20,000 a year more. Tulsa will continue to use their roll call vote at the table and majority membership to ensure that this never changes. Sam let the line stations know that he felt that the line mechanics had no right to try and share their opinions on the contract with his guys, fine, then get your own contract but if we all have to live under the deal dont dare tell us that we cant do whatever we need to do to get our opinions out ther to all stakeholders. In other words under the current structure being in the TWU costs us around $20,000 a year (Plus $600 in dues) compared to being non-union, thats a hell of a lot to pay for just cause and the right to grieve, especially for 90+% that do their jobs and nevr get into trouble anyway. We need a better deal on the line.

If the line guys do what they need to do seperate contracts may happen, if we dont then AA gets the added bonus of not only keeping critical work in house at low rates but also getting line maintenance at super low rates. When we met with USAIR Management two weeks ago they were bragging about how much their maintenance numbers have improved, despite dragging out contract talks and paying their old workforce such lousy wages. I questioned them as to the age of their fleet, they admitted that the age of the fleet had declined but said that most of the improvement was due to their happy, motivated workforce. they showed vidioes about some sort of suckass program where a guy won a car and all these happy smiling (old) faces at these management -employee meetings.. (The average age is 55, they are even older than us, I guess thats proof of testosterone declining as we get older).

So forget about Tulsa going away, it aint happening and concentrate on letting the company know that 75% of the line said NO and we meant it. We arent out of BK yet and we wont have any problem supporting the pilots effforts should the Judge abrogate. Let Tulsa keep their deal that they approved by 75% but they need to talk to us if they want their operation to compete.

Bob. I 100% disagree with you on this. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. We'll see how it shakes out 5-10 years from now.

 

[Strake]

What is interesting is that we have yet to see "Certified Official Results" signed and confirmed by Ballot Point.

Something smells!

It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

I'd like to know how many self proclaimed "no voters" actually voted yes.....

 

[TWU informer]

It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

I'd like to know how many self proclaimed "no voters" actually voted yes.....

You can call it whatever you wish, but "certified and official" results signed by Ballot Point is not asking too much is it?

You and others can continue believing proven and known liars all you want, but I have been through this enough to know better.

 

[Strake]

Bob you really need to realize you are not competing in some reality show like Survivor where you build factions and manufacture information with a twist of fabrication from half truths. One thing you need to realize or remember is as much as you have shared your vast knowledge of how you know that the TWU International is in all levels of managements pocket and how they do the companies bidding on everything. Why would they even think about approaching you about anything instead of Management just giving Jim Little a call on the supposed 2 way direct hotline to have him get Overhaul and Line Contracts split immediately. According to you International makes everything they need to happen anyway minus locals input no matter whether they concur or not. I am sure if this were true you would have told the world before now in one of your tell all informing the mechanics to try to secure No Vote posts.

Yourself and your cohorts especially Peterson are totally in favor of a split. In fact one of your negotiating team faction members said it in a room of Union only negotiators.

You stated "Sam let the line stations know that he felt that the line mechanics had no right to try and share their opinions on the contract with his guys". If even true I would be willing to bet that statement is taken out of context or the whole story isn't included.

Last week or the week before you were being called out on your Line vs Overhaul which was invariably met with your posts that there is no hatred of Overhaul and no plan if Line were to outnumber Overhaul. I see how you are trying to make it out like it all just came about because the way this vote went.

As much as your stories have changed I am beginning to think you have a hard time remembering what you have typed in the past because Contradiction seems to be your middle name. Although I really thought you possessed decent qualities of being a leader, but you seem to be showing your true colors of playing both ends toward the middle and don't seem to take into account anyone that gets sacrificed in the process. Sam Cirri has more positive leadership qualities in his little finger then you seem to have on your best day by being Genuine and truthful and cares about the membership as a whole which anyone can argue and put their spin on it. At the end of the day he and John did the best that they could with the cards that were dealt and having to watch theirs and our backs from your faction trying to play like I said your idiotic Survivor type games when you are playing with livelihoods in the world we live in today that is less forgiving than it was a few years ago. You also may have a few people in TULE profusely apologizing thinking you are are great and out for their best interests but you don't have everyone fooled. Where do you and others get off thinking Line is above Overhaul when it actually goes hand in hand when done right just look at the successful carriers that have their variation. Both entities are fairly equal in pay.

+1 !!! You hit it right on the head with this guy!

 

[Strake]

You can call it whatever you wish, but "certified and official" results signed by Ballot Point is not asking too much is it?

You and others can continue believing proven and known liars all you want, but I have been through this enough to know better.

We all know you've been through "this" a lot and been on the losing end every time. You know what that makes you right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCV0YXXyuHc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[TWU informer]

We all know you've been through "this" a lot and been on the losing end every time. You know what that makes you right?

It was a ratification voting process, you lost just as much as I did on this T/A.
Only difference is that I understand how much was lost, and you are still waiting to find out.

Every AMT in the industry just suffered a loss, and you are celebrating and calling others the loser.

Pretty sad when you think about it like an adult human.

All I am asking is that the official and signed results be shared with us from Ballot Point instead of James C. Little's version and Cirri's repeat of that version. Why do you find that request as something worthy of such childish behavior?

It only took APA 39 minutes to announce their results.
It took James C Little over 12 hours to plan his message and how to handle the "problem".

What I cannot figure out is why you are so opposed to the request to see certified results.
Do you know or suspect something might be wrong also?

 

[Tex-Mech]

Peterson represents overhaul and he does it very well! He represents DWH which is overhaul and is going to grow immensely as compared to Tulsa shinking. So there is a difference between the 75% sheep in Tulsa and the 25% real men in Tulsa and DWH.

And he represented us well when he was here at AFW. So 2 out of 3 overhaul bases say it was a bad deal, but it is a line versus overhaul debate. Hmmm

Actually this is strictly a international/local 514 and title 2 versus the rest of us battle. They are the ones pushing the great divide in order to hold onto their cushy jobs at the hall. It is too bad that 74%, if Siri's number is correct, chose to ignore the truthful information that was available to them. This time around, there was no excuse for not knowing what was in the contract.