what happens when all the loyal agents leave?

Sep 9, 2002
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I personally know of quite a few res and ATO agents with 20+ years of service that have retired, left for other opportunities, vol furloughed etc. I do not feel that the most urgent problem of U''s survival is anyone''s pension. I feel that no matter what happens now..that the real problem will show in the next few years. As U gets a new, underpaid, non-loyal crew on the front lines, albetit Res or ATO, customer service will be non-exsistant and will show in the bottom line more and more. You get what you pay for will be the downfall of U, not the pensions.
 

delldude

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Oct 29, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 11:31:36 PM autofixer wrote:

And soon you will have pilots that have questionable qualifications from the third world to fly the machines from point A to point B. I think I'll drive.
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[/blockquote]
reading between the lines this seems to indicate the company will overcome a walkout by the pilots and get 'qualified' replacements either from within or saudi arabia.
'scuse me whilst i hit me crack pipe...
 

nycbusdriver

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Dec 19, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/22/2003 10:17:04 AM DELLDUDE wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 11:31:36 PM autofixer wrote:

And soon you will have pilots that have questionable qualifications from the third world to fly the machines from point A to point B. I think I'll drive.
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[/blockquote]
reading between the lines this seems to indicate the company will overcome a walkout by the pilots and get 'qualified' replacements either from within or saudi arabia.
'scuse me whilst i hit me crack pipe...
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[/blockquote]


I don't think that could happen in this particular economy/market. It takes too long to train and qualify a pilot on the company operating certificate to make enough headway to stem the incredible losses as a result of a job action. Bringing in foreigners would also present its own problems. US registered aircraft have to be operated by pilots holding US FAA pilot licenses. Getting those licenses would just add to the time frame required to ramp up a cadre of foreign pilots. The quickest solution would be to call back furloughees to scab, but even this would take at least two weeks. (It would be very interesting to see how many takers there would be!)

In short, if the pilots walk, the company has little recourse but to shut down. Their only hope would be enough pilots turning their backs on ALPA and continuing to work. The company says they would be instantly profitable operating only 163 airplanes. That would mean needing about 1900 pilots who would work through a strike.
 

LavMan

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Feb 12, 2003
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Ever think the company is one step ahead of you? Their are plenty of flight schools and other airlines that offer pilot training, heck we even sell our pilot training. Maybe the company all ready has pilots trained and qualified to take your job when you walk out.
 

ONTHESTREET

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/22/2003 11:21:58 AM LavMan wrote:

Ever think the company is one step ahead of you? Their are plenty of flight schools and other airlines that offer pilot training, heck we even sell our pilot training. Maybe the company all ready has pilots trained and qualified to take your job when you walk out.
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There are plenty of airline pilots out there, However the FAA is very strict on part 121 carriers. Even if a pilot already holds a type rating on a given aircraft he/she still must have company specific training and checkrides. Any way you slice it a walkout means a minimum of two to three weeks to get new pilots up and running, and that is if they are cutting corners and already have a "call" list ready.

For example, If a current and qualified pilot from United were to come to U to fly, He would still be required to undergo training, both in the classroom and the simulator to be legal to fly for U. Even if he flew for United the day before arriving at UsAir.

The only way U could operate in a strike is if current U pilots crossed the picket lines. Even U furloughees would have to undergo training, since all have been out more than 6 months and are not current.

A strike WILL finish the airline. I hope it does not come to that.
 

nycbusdriver

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[blockquote]
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On 2/22/2003 11:21:58 AM LavMan wrote:

Ever think the company is one step ahead of you? Their are plenty of flight schools and other airlines that offer pilot training, heck we even sell our pilot training. Maybe the company all ready has pilots trained and qualified to take your job when you walk out.
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[/blockquote]

ONTHESTREET answered this conjecture very well, but I would add a few points. If the company had such a program as LavMan suggests, and they managed to keep it under such tight wraps to this point, they should be in charge of CIA covert ops! There is NO WAY that USAirways has such a program in operation now. The pilot community is small enough (and likes to gossip enough) that everyone would know if USAirways had pilot scabs in class. For such a program to be effective, there would have to be hundreds trained. How would they be recruited without showing their hand? How could they spend the tremendous sum of money in bankruptcy without public knowledge?

Sorry, LavMan. Couldn't be happening as you suggest.
 

ClueByFour

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 11:31:36 PM autofixer wrote:

And soon you will have pilots that have questionable qualifications from the third world to fly the machines from point A to point B. I think I'll drive.
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[/blockquote]

I take it then that a guy making $18k a year, an ALPA member in good standing, carrying his ATP, etc is not safe flying 50 people in an RJ from PIT-GSO and back?

Hmm. Okay.
 

oldiebutgoody

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Aug 23, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/22/2003 8:51:25 PM ClueByFour wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 11:31:36 PM autofixer wrote:

And soon you will have pilots that have questionable qualifications from the third world to fly the machines from point A to point B. I think I'll drive.
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[/blockquote]

I take it then that a guy making $18k a year, an ALPA member in good standing, carrying his ATP, etc is not safe flying 50 people in an RJ from PIT-GSO and back?

Hmm. Okay.




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NO pilot working for ANY company would cross an ALPA picket line if they EVER wanted to work for an ALPA carrier in the future. Sure, ALPA did let some CO SCABS back in, but their lives were pretty miserable for a long time. People STILL carry lists of scabs from the Eastern strike. Also, all it would take is a week or two, way less time than it would take to train pilots on U's aircraft and routes, to do permanent damage to the airline. I would look for ALPA to take a more "creative" route.
 

gilbertguy

Senior
Aug 29, 2002
368
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[/blockquote]
NO pilot working for ANY company would cross an ALPA picket line if they EVER wanted to work for an ALPA carrier in the future. Sure, ALPA did let some CO SCABS back in, but their lives were pretty miserable for a long time. People STILL carry lists of scabs from the Eastern strike. Also, all it would take is a week or two, way less time than it would take to train pilots on U's aircraft and routes, to do permanent damage to the airline. I would look for ALPA to take a more "creative" route.
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You're assuming that there will be a ALPA union after the major carriers get done with them...
 

delldude

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[blockquote]
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On 2/23/2003 8:33:34 AM gilbertguy wrote:






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[/blockquote]
NO pilot working for ANY company would cross an ALPA picket line if they EVER wanted to work for an ALPA carrier in the future. Sure, ALPA did let some CO SCABS back in, but their lives were pretty miserable for a long time. People STILL carry lists of scabs from the Eastern strike. Also, all it would take is a week or two, way less time than it would take to train pilots on U's aircraft and routes, to do permanent damage to the airline. I would look for ALPA to take a more "creative" route.
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You're assuming that there will be a ALPA union after the major carriers get done with them...
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all this union anti-scab harassment wouldn't bode very well in our new "zero tolerance"workplace now would it?you don't have to cry very long or very loud to make a case for 'harassment' these days...ask any femme.
"scabs welcome"[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']
 

nosedive

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Dec 31, 2002
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Yes, I'm one of those people that bailed out (retired) after more than 30 years and found that there is another life other than avaition. My retirement compensation is not spectacular by no means even with it frozen back in 1993. I did do well with the 401K, so that helped out a little more. However I'm the not the type to set at home or just fish, play golf daily so I found another career and it's working out well. Life is really not that bad.

I've been reading this bulletin board daily because I'm interested in what is being said and where the company is going. I do not post that much and only when I feel I have something to say. I finally came to the conclusion that it's not an equally fair board. Yep, there are references made to the res and ATO agents problems, but nothing that can measure up to the pilots. This group is by far the most spoiled and they seem to expect the red carpet rolled out to the cockpit everytime they are to fly. I have yet to understand this group even though I have delt with them for more than 30 years. Here is a group that is being payed 6 figures yearly and even if they take a pay cut of 50% they are still in the 6 figure salary if not the high 90's or 80's. I have known pilots that have other ventures and are by rights considered millionaires. I also know pilots that have been married as many a five times and paying child support to each X, no wonder their balking. I also know that a good majority of the pilots have other investments and even with todays market are far still better off than the res and ATO agents ever thought about.

Another aspect of the pilots is that they do not like for anyone to inquire about their salaries, pension and other benefits. It's like the boys club with a few girls mixed in. My experience has been that when trying to get a pilot to talk salary, benefits, etc is like you trying to open a clamshell with toothpick.

U has a long past history of giving the pilots everything they wanted and what makes everyone think that in today society that is going to change. The only difference is the Co. will make them sweat and cry a little bit and once the Co. thinks they have been punished long enough a deal is made and the Co. will say that they saved the company from ruin, forgetting somehow about the little people out there that gave too, who are probably in worse shape than the pilots will ever know.

I for one understand that to ba a pilot, one has to go through a lot of training to get certified to fly a commerical aircraft. This takes a lot of hours and time, but you boys also have to understand that when throw that in the face of those other working classes that you deserve everything even if it means at their expense, YOU are creating the hostile working enviroment.

I've said enough and I'll probably be critized, shot down by a good many. I have a right to state my observations and opinion. I've had my tail feathers on fire a good many times before, so it will not be so bad.
 

delldude

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[blockquote]
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On 2/23/2003 10:02:56 PM chipmunn wrote:

US Airways' liquidity position cannot support a strike. If ALPA elects a job action, the company would most likely permanently suspend service, the first day of the strike. I believe this point was made abundantly clear by US Airways CFO Neal Cohen at Friday's bankruptcy court hearing.

Meanwhile, it has come to my attention that Judge Mitchell does not want to rule on the company's motion and is encouraging the parties to reach a settlement.

Chip

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[/blockquote]
this is good to hear,but as BIG-D SEIGEL has said,we don't have much time...can this go on byond 3/31?
 

PITbull

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Dec 29, 2002
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Nosey,

Your nose has "sniffed" and made a very good assessment of these posts. You have pretty much summed up all groups plight in just one post. Takes me like 10 to make just a small, tinsy point, if any.

In my years here, there is one thing I understand perfectly clear with the unique position of the pilots that no other group has...they control the "throttles"; company knows this quite well.

No job action is ever necessary with this group