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What's up with "video Bob" from NY?

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WTF is up with this? I have watched the Bob videos but have not learned anything that I didn't already know. This is only some dude giving his opinion of the TA. Hell, I could do that....sign me up hahaha
 
I dont see much wrong with using available technology to communicate with the membership regarding opinions.

Even though I disagree with Bob on what the eventual outcome of a no vote on the T/A will be, I do respect his opinion and his willingness to share his opinion.

Most interesting and missing from our view is any video from those that voted to bring the T/A back expressing their views.

Disagree or not I 100% respect Bob for making his opinion public.

Steve Luis is now Lame Duck and I dont see his video explaining his opinion. The election is over, he lost, no reason he shouldnt repsond to Bob's video with his understanding of our position. Of course that would take effort and courage which I have found Steve lacking since the day he took the oath of officer 3 years ago.

If you have interst in making a video stating your opinion I will help you out.
 
WTF is up with this? I have watched the Bob videos but have not learned anything that I didn't already know. This is only some dude giving his opinion of the TA. Hell, I could do that....sign me up hahaha

I sure don't see you pointing all the highlights of this TA(or should I say lowlights).
He's put in and pointed out a hell of alot more than some troll who just wants to go fishing.
 
Informer, Opinions do nothing but disguise and add question to the truth. I'm searching for someone to educate me on what I am to gain with voting this TA down....
 
Informer, Opinions do nothing but disguise the truth. I'm searching for someone to educate me on what I am to gain with voting this TA down....

I believe with confidence and experience in TWU/AA negotiations of the past that I can tell you without question that you personally will gain nothing more by voting no. Like myself, you are already in the group that AA managment seeks a yes vote from. The only folks that will gain a damn thing by a no vote depends on size of no vote and demographics which the TWU supply to AA. You and myself will gain no more from the no vote but some groiup might make a small gain. Some are too foolish to see that the union division will allow AA the chance to appease another small group, re-vote and pass the T/A in the event the first vote fails.
 
I believe with confidence and experience in TWU/AA negotiations of the past that I can tell you without question that you personally will gain nothing more by voting no. Like myself, you are already in the group that AA managment seeks a yes vote from. The only folks that will gain a damn thing by a no vote depends on size of no vote and demographics which the TWU supply to AA. You and myself will gain no more from the no vote but some groiup might make a small gain. Some are too foolish to see that the union division will allow AA the chance to appease another small group, re-vote and pass the T/A in the event the first vote fails.

Informer, I don't disagree with your post and you seem to be carrying the same thought process that I have with this TA. Those blindly telling me to vote NO are the ones I seek answers from...
 
Informer, I don't disagree with your post and you seem to be carrying the same thought process that I have with this TA. Those blindly telling me to vote NO are the ones I seek answers from...

Bottom line (IMHO) - a "NO" vote is a vote for the line. Now, I haven't a problem with them so much as I have a problem with the sorry SOBs that decided their people weren't worthy of GEO pay unless everyone got the raise - it's just not that way.

It would appear this TA panders to TULE, setting up a rivalry between the old farts and the kids - everyone gets money and a couple VC days added in by LOA.
 
WTF is up with this? I have watched the Bob videos but have not learned anything that I didn't already know. This is only some dude giving his opinion of the TA. Hell, I could do that....sign me up hahaha
Glad to hear you are informed, We got a lot of positive feedback from all over the system. We made the video for them.
 
Informer, Opinions do nothing but disguise and add question to the truth. I'm searching for someone to educate me on what I am to gain with voting this TA down....
Boomer did a pretty good job of explaining what you gain by voting "NO". I'm focusing on what you are giving up by voting "Yes" to more concessions.
Here's a list of what you gave up the last time you voted "Yes" and whether or not we got it back this time;

Restored? SUMMARY OF 2003 CONCESSIONS
Pay Related:Effective May 1, 2003:
1 NO* Base wage pay reduction, varying percentages (all groups)
2 NO Elimination of all longevity pay(I & II)
3 NO Modified shift differential to $.01, $.02, $.03 (I, II, V)
4 NO* Elimination of weekend differential (I, II, V, at AFW, TUL, MCI)
5 NO* Training pay at straight time for off shift and day off (I, II)
6 NO Elimination of penalty lunch payment (I, II,V)
7 NO Elimination of OT meal allowance (I, II, V,)
8 NO Penalty hours pay for actual time worked @ 1.5x (I, II, V)
9 NO Reduce OT rate from 2x to 1.5x (I, II, V)
10 YES Work 40 hrs to reach OT rate for day off overtime (V)
11 NO Elimination of Stock Clerk driver premium
12 NO* Elimination of AMT premiums when displacing OSM employee
13 NO Elimination of Early Call-In guarantees (I, II)
14 NO Elimination of CC premium when not working as CC (V)
Work Rules/ Other changes and effective dates:
Effective April 15, 2003:
15 NO Combine Systems/Structures into Generals (Title I)
16 NO Added 7 day labor loan provision (Bases only)
17 NO Increased AMT productivity through multiple work assignments/training
18 NO* Holidays reduced from 10 to 5. The five (5) observed holidays will be:
New Year’s Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day,
and Christmas Day (all groups)
19 NO* Holidays- 5 days with roll @ 1.5x (I, II, V)
Effective May 1, 2003
20 NO* Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days @ 100% (all except I & II)
21 NO* Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days, 1st two at 50% (I & II)
Effective May 3, 2003
22 NO* 4/10s at Overhaul docks/TUL, duration of agreement
Effective within sixty (60) days of ratification:
23 NO Outsource RON/Ultraclean (II)
24 NO* One time System protection credit for headcount reductions realized from
work rule changes
Effective thirty (30) days from ratification:
25 NO Reduce uniform provisioning and eliminate laundering (I, II, V)
26 NO Outsource stores function at HDQ (6 Stock Clerks)
27 NO Relocate 4 Stock Clerks at ORD/GEM to ORD/M & E hanger
Effective as soon as practicable after DOS:
28 NO Reduced VC accrual one week (all groups)
29 NO Modify Crew Chief ratios:
AMT- 1:11.5
FSC- 1:9
Fuelers- eliminated ratio
Stores- 1:12
Benefits:
30 NO Medical & Dental plan modifications. Effective 1/1/04
(elimination of Pilot Cap on Medical)
31 NO SLOA Benefit Coverage reduced from 24 to12 months (all groups)
Effective 5/01/03
32 NO Eliminate STD Plan (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
33 NO Discontinue subsidized medical benefits RIF’d employees (all groups)
Effective 4/15/03
LETTERS OF MEMORANDUM
34 NO Modify IOD to 10 days (all groups) Effective 5/01/03

* Clarifications
*1 Pay partially restored, however still below max rate in 2001 Contract , over 40% lower when
inflation is calculated in. (M&R 2003 =$30.61, 2013=28.86) (MLS 03=$23.39, 13=$22.45)
*4 Weekend differentail partially restored, but only for actual weekend hours worked
*5 "Day off" straight time pay eliminated
*12 License pay restored to AMTs who displaced to ASM as a result of earlier RIFS *18 Holidays now reduced to 8
*19 Holidays now reduced to 2x
*20 Sick pay accrual now reduced to 8 days
*21 Sick pay accrual now reduced to 8 days at 100%
*22 Mandatory 4/10s were eliminated because the guys liked it
*24 Title I System Protection moved to 6/6/2000

My medical preiums went up 500% since 2003.

Here is a partial list of some additional concessions that you will be accepting if you vote YES.

Creation of new Title I Classification at OSM Base Rates
More than doubling of Eagle ASM Cap
Elimination of Retiree Medical for under 50
Elimination of DB Pension for new hires
Permanent probation for Crew Chiefs
Permanent letters of discipline

Elimination of three day decision window for transfers & bid positions
Remove 1/7th work rule at OH

Broad Definition of "Maintenance Base"
Two year pay freeze (2008-2010)

MRT window reduced

"Drop In language" eliminates 7 day notice for shift change
5 year term

Structural increases to base pay less than 2003 agreement

Explicit language permitting the spinoff of maintenance operations
Some of the so called gains are in fact concessions, such as the Spin Off Protection language, written by the company, I explained my view of that on another thread.

Basically the company rewrote the entire contract. We were encouraged by Videtich, Luis and Gilboy to give the company all their rewrites for which we were to get a dollar value to put towards our economic proposals. After all that was done and the company got everything they wanted Don had an apparant change of heart a told us to vote on the companys economic propsal as is, no counter proposals with the warning that this could be our last chance to get an agreement, after this it could be out of our hands.

This document is nothing more than an affirmation of management rights.
 
WTF is up with this? I have watched the Bob videos but have not learned anything that I didn't already know. This is only some dude giving his opinion of the TA. Hell, I could do that....sign me up hahaha


Well then you are an informed member, where did you get your information from? Your President?
Our President Bob Owens keeps his members up to date on everything. Much more than what is printed. Can you say the same about your local?
I would enjoy seeing you on you-tube....give me the link when your video on the contract is ready
 
IF WE ARE GOING TO DIGRESS THIS THREAD IN THAT MANNER, I CAN PLAY TOO....


SIDESHOW BOB
side-show-bob.jpg


Watch for the next BOB OWENS Vote No Video
starring SIDESHOW BOB
 
I signed an amfa card here in Tulsa every time.
Many of my co workers refused saying ,that the idea was good but some of the people leading
the drive localy were nothing more than self serving garbage.
I would hate to see their words come true.
Or is it too late for that also ?
 
Boomer did a pretty good job of explaining what you gain by voting "NO". I'm focusing on what you are giving up by voting "Yes" to more concessions.
Here's a list of what you gave up the last time you voted "Yes" and whether or not we got it back this time;

Restored? SUMMARY OF 2003 CONCESSIONS
Pay Related:Effective May 1, 2003:
1 NO* Base wage pay reduction, varying percentages (all groups)
2 NO Elimination of all longevity pay(I & II)
3 NO Modified shift differential to $.01, $.02, $.03 (I, II, V)
4 NO* Elimination of weekend differential (I, II, V, at AFW, TUL, MCI)
5 NO* Training pay at straight time for off shift and day off (I, II)
6 NO Elimination of penalty lunch payment (I, II,V)
7 NO Elimination of OT meal allowance (I, II, V,)
8 NO Penalty hours pay for actual time worked @ 1.5x (I, II, V)
9 NO Reduce OT rate from 2x to 1.5x (I, II, V)
10 YES Work 40 hrs to reach OT rate for day off overtime (V)
11 NO Elimination of Stock Clerk driver premium
12 NO* Elimination of AMT premiums when displacing OSM employee
13 NO Elimination of Early Call-In guarantees (I, II)
14 NO Elimination of CC premium when not working as CC (V)
Work Rules/ Other changes and effective dates:
Effective April 15, 2003:
15 NO Combine Systems/Structures into Generals (Title I)
16 NO Added 7 day labor loan provision (Bases only)
17 NO Increased AMT productivity through multiple work assignments/training
18 NO* Holidays reduced from 10 to 5. The five (5) observed holidays will be:
New Year’s Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day,
and Christmas Day (all groups)
19 NO* Holidays- 5 days with roll @ 1.5x (I, II, V)
Effective May 1, 2003
20 NO* Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days @ 100% (all except I & II)
21 NO* Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days, 1st two at 50% (I & II)
Effective May 3, 2003
22 NO* 4/10s at Overhaul docks/TUL, duration of agreement
Effective within sixty (60) days of ratification:
23 NO Outsource RON/Ultraclean (II)
24 NO* One time System protection credit for headcount reductions realized from
work rule changes
Effective thirty (30) days from ratification:
25 NO Reduce uniform provisioning and eliminate laundering (I, II, V)
26 NO Outsource stores function at HDQ (6 Stock Clerks)
27 NO Relocate 4 Stock Clerks at ORD/GEM to ORD/M & E hanger
Effective as soon as practicable after DOS:
28 NO Reduced VC accrual one week (all groups)
29 NO Modify Crew Chief ratios:
AMT- 1:11.5
FSC- 1:9
Fuelers- eliminated ratio
Stores- 1:12
Benefits:
30 NO Medical & Dental plan modifications. Effective 1/1/04
(elimination of Pilot Cap on Medical)
31 NO SLOA Benefit Coverage reduced from 24 to12 months (all groups)
Effective 5/01/03
32 NO Eliminate STD Plan (all groups) Effective 1/1/04
33 NO Discontinue subsidized medical benefits RIF’d employees (all groups)
Effective 4/15/03
LETTERS OF MEMORANDUM
34 NO Modify IOD to 10 days (all groups) Effective 5/01/03

* Clarifications
*1 Pay partially restored, however still below max rate in 2001 Contract , over 40% lower when
inflation is calculated in. (M&R 2003 =$30.61, 2013=28.86) (MLS 03=$23.39, 13=$22.45)
*4 Weekend differentail partially restored, but only for actual weekend hours worked
*5 "Day off" straight time pay eliminated
*12 License pay restored to AMTs who displaced to ASM as a result of earlier RIFS *18 Holidays now reduced to 8
*19 Holidays now reduced to 2x
*20 Sick pay accrual now reduced to 8 days
*21 Sick pay accrual now reduced to 8 days at 100%
*22 Mandatory 4/10s were eliminated because the guys liked it
*24 Title I System Protection moved to 6/6/2000

My medical preiums went up 500% since 2003.

Here is a partial list of some additional concessions that you will be accepting if you vote YES.

Creation of new Title I Classification at OSM Base Rates
More than doubling of Eagle ASM Cap
Elimination of Retiree Medical for under 50
Elimination of DB Pension for new hires
Permanent probation for Crew Chiefs
Permanent letters of discipline

Elimination of three day decision window for transfers & bid positions
Remove 1/7th work rule at OH

Broad Definition of "Maintenance Base"
Two year pay freeze (2008-2010)

MRT window reduced

"Drop In language" eliminates 7 day notice for shift change
5 year term

Structural increases to base pay less than 2003 agreement

Explicit language permitting the spinoff of maintenance operations
Some of the so called gains are in fact concessions, such as the Spin Off Protection language, written by the company, I explained my view of that on another thread.

Basically the company rewrote the entire contract. We were encouraged by Videtich, Luis and Gilboy to give the company all their rewrites for which we were to get a dollar value to put towards our economic proposals. After all that was done and the company got everything they wanted Don had an apparant change of heart a told us to vote on the companys economic propsal as is, no counter proposals with the warning that this could be our last chance to get an agreement, after this it could be out of our hands.

This document is nothing more than an affirmation of management rights.


Bob, You really didn't need to waste the bandwidth with this post and could have directed me to LM 10 to make your point. Your efforts still fall short of my question, "What are we gonna gain with a NO vote?"

Somebody's gonna lose with a no vote Bob!
 

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