Whew...

[PhillyAir5]

Makes sense Jim, thanks.

 

[a320av8r]

Airbus owns 25% of LCC. I don't see Boeing aircraft in our future. As a former A320 and 737 captain and current 757 f/o, I can tell you from experience that they are all fine aircraft. I'll let you know about the 190 when I get bumped back again.

 

[Rico]

I love it when a thread I start strays way off topic.

The original premise was that the unrelenting erosion of mainline flying being outsourced to outside companies has started to ebb. Granted, I really wish it had been at the 70 seat mark, rather than with the CRJ-900, but at least with the example that US Airways, jetBlue, and Northwest has set with the E-190 it should lead the remaining carriers to follow suit.

I am not worried about Southwest, I am more concerned about some "partner" carrier coming in and doing our flying for us. That has been far more detrimental to the pilot profession than anything Southwest has done or will do.

 

[outsourcedphx]

Let's see. The only profitable airline in this country flies one type of A/C. They pay more than any of the legacy carriers. They don't fly overseas. They fly mostly point to point. They have a rational fare structure. They don't interline. They don't have first class. They don't fly RJ's or EMB 190's.

And they have never lost money. Ever.

And NWA, U, DAL, UAL, CAL, AMR, and the rest seem to ignore the successful formula. Pretty silly if you ask me.

pilot

You forgot to mention that they also treat their employees with respect and do not outsource jobs to third world countries

 

[pilot]

I love it when a thread I start strays way off topic.

The original premise was that the unrelenting erosion of mainline flying being outsourced to outside companies has started to ebb. Granted, I really wish it had been at the 70 seat mark, rather than with the CRJ-900, but at least with the example that US Airways, jetBlue, and Northwest has set with the E-190 it should lead the remaining carriers to follow suit.

I am not worried about Southwest, I am more concerned about some "partner" carrier coming in and doing our flying for us. That has been far more detrimental to the pilot profession than anything Southwest has done or will do.

What has been detrimental to the pilot profession more than anything else has been our lack of will to take a stand and say no. The risk of "liquidation", real or imagined, has struck so much fear into the minds of weak minded pilots they refuse to stop the degradation of our profession. DAL, NWA and Maseba are now attempting to stop it and NWA appears to have had some success.

Here at U we have literally sold junior guys down the river, given our pension away, taken massive pay cuts, allowed our flying to be outsourced, etc.......

And we still lose money.

Our profession may recover but without the collective will of ALL airline pilots management will continue their attempts to turn it into just a job.

pilot

 

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

While I prefer the Boeing widebody 777 over the 330, does no one on here despise being crammed in a middle seat on the back row of a 737? Part of the reason Airbus was chosen is because (get this concept) they're more comfortable for customers. The 737 airframe was designed in the 1950s when Americans were <ahem> not quite as large as they are now. And boy do customers love the window exit row seat where they sit inches above the floor on a cushion that might as well be a slab of concrete. From a comfort standpoint, the 737 sucks.

I can't figure out the logic of not buying the 318 rather than the E-190. Now we have to train mechanincs, pilots, flight attendants, buy spare parts, publish manuals, maintain flight simulators, etc.

 

[700UW]

1950s?

I don't think so, it has been redesigned numerous times.

The plane went into service in 1968.

The 737-700 was launched in November 1993 with Southwest Airlines' order for 63 airplanes. First delivery occurred in December 1997.

On Sept. 5, 1994, the 737-800 was launched with commitments from customers for more than 40 of the airplanes. The first delivery was to German carrier Hapag-Lloyd in spring 1998.

Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) became the launch customer for the 737-600 on March 15, 1995, when the airline ordered 35 airplanes. First delivery of the 737-600 went to SAS in the third quarter of 1998.

On Nov. 10, 1997, Alaska Airlines became the launch customer for the 737-900 with orders for 10 airplanes. Deliveries began in May 2001.

A higher capacity, longer-range derivative of the 737-900, the 737-900ER (Extended Range), was launched on July 18, 2005 with an order for 30 airplanes from Indonesia carrier Lion Air. The first delivery is scheduled for 2007.

 

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

^ so you're telling me the cabin of the new 737s are wider and taller? That its cabin size is somehow different than a 727? My seat will have more width?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I know most folks who spend their time in the back like the Airbus better. I, on the other hand, spend a lot more time in the "pointy end" than in the back end and like the Boeing versus the Airbus - especially when it comes to the fly-by-wire philosophy of the two manufacturers.

As someone once said, "The aircraft limits are only there in case there is another flight by that particular airplane. If subsequent flights do not appear likely, there are no limits."

Jim

 

[ClueByFour]

Stop whining about your lot in life. Go start your own business and make your own way, or continue to work at the mercy of a free market.

That's pretty funny, seeing as how bankruptcy (twice) pretty much suspends the rule of a free market.

 

[qwerty]

You think maybe free market conditions caused US to enter bankruptcy? Too bad we didn't have Chapter 11 during airline regulation, it would have prevented......?

 

[flyingcat]

The cabin width of th 737 is based on the 707. Although the interior has been updated the width remains the same. So yes in terms of width it is a very old specification.

 

[SoftLanding]

In a head to head comparison, the Boeing 757-200 has a huge operational cost advantage over the Airbus 321. The Boing has more seats, more powerful engines, a more robust airframe, better climb ratios, lower fuel burn, and longer service life.

Just a comment on the B757 vs A321, and of course you're right.

Airbus missed a chance to make a B757 "killer". If the A321 had the wing, she would be the ideal aircraft for thin routes/higher yield markets where the B757 is now operating.

As the A321 is now, it ok for the domestic market, even taken into account the lack of performance.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

In discussing Airbus vs Boeing at US, don't forget the role of the bad blood between Boeing and USAir following the flight 427 crash. It took a long time for Boeing to acknowledge the 737 rudder problems; they kept suggesting pilot overreation to wake turbulence.

 

[FCYTravis]

I can't figure out the logic of not buying the 318 rather than the E-190. Now we have to train mechanincs, pilots, flight attendants, buy spare parts, publish manuals, maintain flight simulators, etc.

The EMB-190 has the same type rating as the EMB-170. And with all of that, it's still substantially cheaper to operate than the A318.

The A318 is quite simply way, way too much airframe for its seating capacity. All shrinks share those same flaws. Nobody's buying the A318 and nobody's buying the 737-600. They're too heavy and guzzle too much gas to compete in the 100-seat market.