Flight Attendant Term Sheet

[jimntx]

I am a little surprised that there has been no discussion on here at all (except tangential to other topics) about the term sheet the company has presented to the APFA. We (the flight attendants) need to discuss every item on that term sheet to make sure how we feel about each item, how we intend to vote once we understand the terms and the final TA is presented, what we will each do given the situation that the company gets most/all the items on the term sheet==either through negotiation or the court.

Click here to view term sheet

Please, please, please, if you are not an American flight attendant, butt out. I don't care about your opinion of flight attendants or the bad service you got on your last flight. Also, what happened to you in your bankrupcty has little bearing on today's situation--particularly, if you are a US Airways mechanic. Not only is every bk different, but the laws have changed a good bit since the other airline bankruptcies; so, what happened to you, may or may not happen to us.

I just want to know how other AA flight attendants feel about the items on the term sheet.

Let's start with duration. The company wants 6 years from date of signing. I think that is 2 years too long, but would be willing to live with it if the union has the fortitude to insist on a "reverse me too" clause with management--i.e., no management raises or bonusses other than raises offered to the flight attendants or bonusses based solely upon company profits, during the duration of the CBA. And, that includes the period at the end of the 6 years where the company will be dragging its feet (and we all know it will) to prevent another TA from reaching completion.

 

[jimntx]

International Pay Rates: The company is proposing to eliminate base pay rate differences between Domestic and International Flight attendants (because they will be eliminating separate f/a corps), along with eliminating Incentive pay for over 70 hours.
My concern is item 2 quoted below:

2. Pay an override for International segments. An International flight is any
flight which operates outside the contiguous forty-­‐eight (48) states,
Mexico, Canada and Alaska, which requires a flight attendant overwater
qualification (e.g., raft ditching training). Override will be paid in the following manner based on classification seniority:
Years 1–5 $1.00
Years 6–10 $2.00
Years 11–15 $3.00
No current flight attendant will be negatively impacted by the scaling of
the International override.

First off does the override for Years 11-15 (for instance) mean $3.00/hr or just that you will get an extra $3.00 for flying an International trip. And, is that $3.00 per flight hour? Does the override apply to pay and credit hours in the sequence? The term sheet doesn't say. Also, note that the override qualifier (o/w training) will mean that for all practical purpose, no Mexico flights other than from MIA will qualify for the override.
And, what the heck does that last sentence that I bolded mean? If you eliminate the International differential in base pay AND eliminate incentive pay, how do you not "negatively impact" the pay check of a current flight attendant in International? Does the company intend to meet you at the gate on your return from each your trips and give you an extra attaboy and pat on the back? That should make the hurt of $300-$500/mo missing from future paychecks go away, don't you think?

 

[jason77]

No more duty rigs is a big item. You could really get hurt if your trip falls apart.

 

[BartlettAve]

No more duty rigs is a big item. You could really get hurt if your trip falls apart.

Eliminating a premium pay rate on International kind of goes hand-in-hand with combining the DOM/INT bid sheet and pref bidding.

If all 16,000 FAs have the opportunity to fly an international trip now and then, theoretically, the quality of service could suffer.

Perrhaps the International FAs were being compensated for theri experience?

 

[FWAAA]

I would hope that the negotiators have been provided with more than just the abbreviated term sheets.

 

[rifbound]

Please, please, please, if you are not an American flight attendant, butt out. I don't care about your opinion of flight attendants or the bad service you got on your last flight. Also, what happened to you in your bankrupcty has little bearing on today's situation--particularly, if you are a US Airways mechanic. Not only is every bk different, but the laws have changed a good bit since the other airline bankruptcies; so, what happened to you, may or may not happen to us.
I

I would just like to say that we are all in this together and for you to tell anyone to "butt out" is fairly rude of you. I've seen other post on this board with your opinions being offered in all different ways.(even on the maintenace threads) I have a neighbor that is a F/A for us and she's very worried about her job with AA. (Her husban is a pilot for us as well.) My neighbor and I talk about this mess we're in, so i understand your frustartion with the term sheet.

Yes, every BK is different and whether or not you believe it, the other ariline employees that have been through it might be able to offer advise or opinions that some might find useful. I'm pretty sure that your union is trying to clarify all the terms of what they want from y'all. At least your union is trying to be proactive and making their point known. (unlike our's is) Please think about it and try to repect those that offer their opinions, if they post something here and I'm sure they will.

 

[bluebird]

"...[E]very BK is different and whether or not you believe it, the other ariline employees that have been through it might be able to offer advise or opinions that some might find useful..."

Good point. We don't know exactly what to expect. :blink:

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am glad that others decided that "this is only OUR discussion" is not valid on a forum in which all kinds of people regularly post on other forums and on which the diversity of ideas is a strength of this forum.
.
It seems pretty obvious that AA wants to eliminate some of the "sacred cows" of the industry and is using the BK process to break all kinds of barriers which have built up over decades...
gaining flexibility to mix int'l and domestic trips is just part of the process AA is using to gain the maximum amount of flexibility - since one of the clear themes of all of the term sheets is that AA wants to make sure that no other competitor labor group can have a productivity or scope advantage relative to AA.
.
While it is possible that AA could start moving FAs in and out of int'l so quickly that service does suffer, I would imagine that the FA groups will still largely divide based on seniority.
.
What I didn't see addressed (or I missed) was any change to AA's foreign language speaker program and the staffing that goes along with it. Did I miss it? Comments?
.
Also interesting that AA put a 16 hour limit on FA duty but none exists for the pilots, deferring only to FAA regs. Interesting or not?
.
And of course the interesting question is whether there is any talk about a mass exodus of FAs as has been reported might happen in maintenance. Is it possible that part of these changes to int'l flying might take away the luster for some of the most senior FAs?

 

[Deleted member 17588]

We (the flight attendants) need to discuss every item on that term sheet to make sure how we feel about each item, how we intend to vote once we understand the terms and the final TA is presented, what we will each do given the situation that the company gets most/all the items on the term sheet==either through negotiation or the court.

Please, please, please, if you are not an American flight attendant, butt out. I just want to know how other AA flight attendants feel about the items on the term sheet.

Well jimntx, you gave it a valiant effort and I highly respect you for trying, but the Buttinski's have already hijacked your thread by the sixth comment. We certainly are dealing with an "overage" of flight attendants!

 

[eolesen]

My apologies to Jim for entering the thread, but this needs to be addressed...

I would just like to say that we are all in this together and for you to tell anyone to "butt out" is fairly rude of you.

Sorry, but no. It's not rude at all to ask that a discussion be limited to flight attendants. Especially when it comes from someone with a relatively senior post count... Frankly, I've got an empty QuikTrip cup on my desk that's been part of the forum longer than you have been...

I don't tell my brother how to run the family business, and we know each other well enough not to try and tell each other how to raise or discipline each other's kids.

Unfortunately, that same common sense etiquette doesn't show up here very often. It's crap like this that makes me want to volunteer to be moderAAtor again...

Absent a "butt out" instruction, any given thread is guaranteed to migrate towards the workgroup-which-shall-not-be named who dominates this particular forum. We also seem to have a bunch of "not remotely qualified to be an in-law yet" types who think they know what is best for the family business....

There's more than enough threads active where the in-laws can gloat, or the "unnamed workgroup" can piss & moan about decades of injustices.

So.... do try to respect what I thought was a reasonable request from a long-time member, which again was to limit discussion for the people who have to live under the revised working conditions.

 

[WorldTraveler]

"honey is that your phone ringing?"


"it's only call return"

 

[Duke787]

Eliminating a premium pay rate on International kind of goes hand-in-hand with combining the DOM/INT bid sheet and pref bidding.

If all 16,000 FAs have the opportunity to fly an international trip now and then, theoretically, the quality of service could suffer.

Perrhaps the International FAs were being compensated for theri experience?

decided to respect F/A only request.

 

[s80dude]

International Pay Rates: The company is proposing to eliminate base pay rate differences between Domestic and International Flight attendants (because they will be eliminating separate f/a corps), along with eliminating Incentive pay for over 70 hours.
My concern is item 2 quoted below:

2. Pay an override for International segments. An International flight is any
flight which operates outside the contiguous forty-­‐eight (48) states,
Mexico, Canada and Alaska, which requires a flight attendant overwater
qualification (e.g., raft ditching training). Override will be paid in the following manner based on classification seniority:
Years 1–5 $1.00
Years 6–10 $2.00
Years 11–15 $3.00
No current flight attendant will be negatively impacted by the scaling of
the International override.

First off does the override for Years 11-15 (for instance) mean $3.00/hr or just that you will get an extra $3.00 for flying an International trip. And, is that $3.00 per flight hour? Does the override apply to pay and credit hours in the sequence? The term sheet doesn't say. Also, note that the override qualifier (o/w training) will mean that for all practical purpose, no Mexico flights other than from MIA will qualify for the override.
And, what the heck does that last sentence that I bolded mean? If you eliminate the International differential in base pay AND eliminate incentive pay, how do you not "negatively impact" the pay check of a current flight attendant in International? Does the company intend to meet you at the gate on your return from each your trips and give you an extra attaboy and pat on the back? That should make the hurt of $300-$500/mo missing from future paychecks go away, don't you think?

Cancun and Cozumel will require an international (over water) qualification from any city in the US.... Mexico City only requires an international qual from Miami as all DFW and ORD routes are overland.

 

[damajagua]

International Pay Rates: The company is proposing to eliminate base pay rate differences between Domestic and International Flight attendants (because they will be eliminating separate f/a corps), along with eliminating Incentive pay for over 70 hours.
My concern is item 2 quoted below:

2. Pay an override for International segments. An International flight is any
flight which operates outside the contiguous forty-­‐eight (48) states,
Mexico, Canada and Alaska, which requires a flight attendant overwater
qualification (e.g., raft ditching training). Override will be paid in the following manner based on classification seniority:
Years 1–5 $1.00
Years 6–10 $2.00
Years 11–15 $3.00
No current flight attendant will be negatively impacted by the scaling of
the International override.

First off does the override for Years 11-15 (for instance) mean $3.00/hr or just that you will get an extra $3.00 for flying an International trip. And, is that $3.00 per flight hour? Does the override apply to pay and credit hours in the sequence? The term sheet doesn't say. Also, note that the override qualifier (o/w training) will mean that for all practical purpose, no Mexico flights other than from MIA will qualify for the override.
And, what the heck does that last sentence that I bolded mean? If you eliminate the International differential in base pay AND eliminate incentive pay, how do you not "negatively impact" the pay check of a current flight attendant in International? Does the company intend to meet you at the gate on your return from each your trips and give you an extra attaboy and pat on the back? That should make the hurt of $300-$500/mo missing from future paychecks go away, don't you think?

The way I read the term sheet the override for international will be paid
for every hour that you flight that is overwater.

I have a lot of questions regarding the preferential bidding system that the company
want. That was one of the issues why we went on strike in 1993. So I can tell you
the majority of flight attendants do no want a PBS system.

The only thing that I like from the term sheet is the new reserve system that the
company is proposing. I like the idea of one reserve list for both domestic and
international. With one reserve list we will need less flight attendants on reserve.
Again I have a lot question how this new reserve system is going to work.
Are we going to be allow to trade the days that we are on reserve. Can we plot trip
That are on open time, etc etc.
After reading the term sheet I have many questions but no answers.

 

[crazystnic]

Why don't they just give you a dollar amount they want and let the union figure out how to come up with it