Why AA employees Loathe Management- forbes article

[jimntx]

We all know it now, fool.

Matthew 5:22 -"...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Not judging. Just saying.

 

[xUT]

Matthew 5:22 -"...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Not judging. Just saying.

Lighten up Ralph!
I never held a grudge even when you had me banned.
Using scripture is a little out of character, you think?
Huggs,

B) xUT

 

[Thomas Paine]

Maybe you just never noticed, and since it's a company provided privilege (not contractual), why would it need to be shared with the membership?...

To give you an idea of how long this has been practice.... I wrote the letter of introduction for Ed Koziatek, explaining to agents how his A-5 card was to be accepted for ticketless travel as a retiree. That was back in 1994 or so... we hadn't accounted for A5 retirees, and discovered it by accident when his wife was turned away from a flight.

Doesn't surprise anyone here that the "practice" has been going on since Koziatek, he was a sell out too. TWU was "coincidentally" leading the industry in concessions back then too.

Whats the rationale behind giving retired union officers higher status travel passes than most of the current management team?

Sounds like a bribe. Do you honestly feel that its right for the Union officials to get personal use travel passes that are way better than the members get? Normally anti-union folks such as yourself would be pulling such stuff as proof of Union corruption off sites like Unionfacts.org. But then again you probably only dislike unions when they fight for their members instead of selling them out for secret kickbacks, bribes or what you call "privileges".

 

[Thomas Paine]

What about the $500,000 that Delle Femme got?

Who cares?

 

[Thomas Paine]

I appreciate that someone finally pointed out that this is a blogger not a journalist. What he posts is not subject to editing, fact checking, or the normal journalistic requirement of getting both sides of a story. The fact that Forbes leaves a bloggers opinion up on its website is no more an endorsement that his views have “merit” than the fact that the webmaster on this site posts your views can be taken as his approval of them. Forbes left up all the comments criticizing the article and insulting the quality of service at AA. Does that mean Forbes endorses those opinion too? Obviously not. Don’t take my word for it – Forbes makes this clear in Section 3.1 of its rules covering articles by bloggers: “Responsibility for the accuracy and completeness of such content lies solely with the content providers and is not guaranteed by Forbes. Pursuant to 47 USC Section 230, Forbes is not the publisher of such information and is, therefore, not liable for any delays, inaccuracies, errors, or omissions in such content.” Forbes goes on to make clear that it is not liable for slander or defamation based on posts made by non-employee bloggers.

The article is nothing more than spin. The irony of the criticism that the unions were cozy with Horton is that they contrived to remove him and attacked him at every turn. He criticizes the three unions for agreeing to the pension freeze, but no union at a bankrupt carrier has preserved a defined benefit plan and most have had their plans terminated which subjected them to the automatic reductions in pension benefits under PBGC rules. As for his claim that the unions were bought off with perks, well over ninety percent of what he refers to from LM-10 filings (all of which have been publicly available for years) relate to flight benefits, which is scarcely unusual in this industry. For example, in its 2006 LM-10 UAL reported that it provided AMFA’s President (who was not an employee of UAL) $10,340 in positive space flight benefits for union business and in 2005 it reported $57,000 for such passes. There is, of course, a significant disincentive to use these passes for anything besides AA business – to the extent they are used for other purposes (including union business not involving AA) they are treated as taxable income. As for meals, I have looked at the LM-10s, and by my quick and dirty math, AA picked up the check for $102 in business meals to one International officer last year, and paid for about $1500 in business meals over the last eight years. That is next to nothing compared to what comes out in reports involving other companies and unions.

Wasn't the TWU described as a passive union in the Dallas newspapers by regular reporters?

Do those other union officials also get a pension based on what the Union pays them in addition to A5 type passes?

You cite that UAL paid for AMFAs President to fly on "union Business" well under the RLA the carrier is supposed to provide transportation for contractual issues, thats very different than positive first class travel for Koziatek and his wife for personal use. Does UAL still provide travel passes for the AMFA President and for personal use? They still provide it for Koziatek, think about that as you are bumped off a flight to get home to work so Koziatek and his family can go fly in first class.

You defend the loss of the pensions by saying that no union came out of BK with pensions but leave out the fact that no company ever went into BK with $5,000,000,000 in the bank. Didn't AA recently brag that everyone (except labor) was going to be made whole? That even the shareholders would receive value for their stocks? So in other words, unlike almost all other bankruptcies the shareholders are not the ones being held responsible for the Bankruptcy, the hourly waged employees are. And the unions agreed not to even complain about it when the executives get their bonuses for screwing over their employees.

 

[FA Mikey]

Lighten up Ralph!
I never held a grudge even when you had me banned.
Using scripture is a little out of character, you think?
Huggs,

B) xUT

But the hypocrisy isnt. He was great at making threats and deleting my posts as ralph, and then as jimntx doing the same to myself and others. Yea ralph, we all knew it was you from the get go.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

I'm sure there are no employees who would disagree with something pointing out the flaws of management, but as FWAAA already noted, I wouldn't call all the statements he's making as being based on fact.

Another example -- the SERP that is so maligned... it was created at least a decade earlier than 2003, if not in 1983 or 1984 when AMR as a holding company was formed. It was definitely around for Crandall's tenure, if not Casey's.

And yet another -- the so-called "super secret A-5 travel classification" for union officials. It's so secret that it has been published in Regs, star records used by airport agents, Focus manuals, the Trip Book, and probably somewhere on Jetnet.

In other words, it's hardly a secret to anyone who paid attention. Just like the SERP...

His villification of Arpey? Totally ignores the fact he turned down a raise in 2003 when he took over as CEO, and IIRC, turned down his initial PSP/PUP payment from 2006.

Sure, Finger's made some valid points, but I wouldn't call this even half accurate. At the end of the day, it's still an opinion blog by some guy who wants to make a statement. It's no different than one of Bob Owens or WT's tomes, aside from the fact it's being published on a website carrying a name which used to be associated with a much higher degree of credibility and accuracy in reporting than what the print and online media exhibit today.

that's the problem with people like you because its public knowledge that makes it OK. Lets take it for what it is Corporate Greed and union officials perks to sell the members down the river take away all the extras and see how much the control the company has over the unions.

 

[eolesen]

that's the problem with people like you because its public knowledge that makes it OK. Lets take it for what it is Corporate Greed and union officials perks to sell the members down the river take away all the extras and see how much the control the company has over the unions.

I never said public knowledge makes it OK. I'm pointing out it was never secret.

Ignoring what's in plain sight and then being outraged because you didn't see it seems to be a recurring theme with a lot of y'all.

Or, maybe you've just put way too much trust in the unions actually looking out for your best interests.

Either way, just because you didn't take the time to be informed doesn't mean that the information was withheld from you.

 

[Rogallo]

I never said public knowledge makes it OK. I'm pointing out it was never secret.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Insinuate.... to impart or suggest in an artful or indirect way

 

[cf6mech]

I'm sure there are no employees who would disagree with something pointing out the flaws of management, but as FWAAA already noted, I wouldn't call all the statements he's making as being based on fact.

Another example -- the SERP that is so maligned... it was created at least a decade earlier than 2003, if not in 1983 or 1984 when AMR as a holding company was formed. It was definitely around for Crandall's tenure, if not Casey's.

And yet another -- the so-called "super secret A-5 travel classification" for union officials. It's so secret that it has been published in Regs, star records used by airport agents, Focus manuals, the Trip Book, and probably somewhere on Jetnet.

In other words, it's hardly a secret to anyone who paid attention. Just like the SERP...

His villification of Arpey? Totally ignores the fact he turned down a raise in 2003 when he took over as CEO, and IIRC, turned down his initial PSP/PUP payment from 2006.

Sure, Finger's made some valid points, but I wouldn't call this even half accurate. At the end of the day, it's still an opinion blog by some guy who wants to make a statement. It's no different than one of Bob Owens or WT's tomes, aside from the fact it's being published on a website carrying a name which used to be associated with a much higher degree of credibility and accuracy in reporting than what the print and online media exhibit today.

Smoke screening to hide the crux of the article,....which as a whole is spot on.

 

[cf6mech]

No need to nit pick E and others to smoke screen the article, as a whole its spot on and its what is rarely seen in print these days by those in a less powerful less influental position.

 

[comatose]

I never said public knowledge makes it OK. I'm pointing out it was never secret.

Ignoring what's in plain sight and then being outraged because you didn't see it seems to be a recurring theme with a lot of y'all.

Or, maybe you've just put way too much trust in the unions actually looking out for your best interests.

Either way, just because you didn't take the time to be informed doesn't mean that the information was withheld from you.

You would make a fantastic TWU Int'l officer.
Worthless.

 

[proAMT]

AMFA’s Record Against Solidarity


[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]written & posted 11/05[/background]

AMFA’s Record Against Solidarity


[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]written & posted 11/05[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]A letter from National Director Delle-Femine April 28, 1994[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]“ Our task, our mission is to separate from the cleaners/janitors. That’s our goal, and through your support and help we will win.”[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]April 4, 1994 “The Mechanic” flyer[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]“Mechanics and Inspectors wages historically have been sacrificed by the IAM in order to provide an artificially high scale for the unskilled workers who dominate the catch-all union.”[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]“The mechanics at UAL are being forced to make concessions for the unskilled class of cleaners and baggage handlers.[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]* AMFA’s attorney Lee Seham in an August 11, 1994 letter to the National Mediation Board arguing AMFA should not have to represent United Airlines’ Cleaners because,[/background]


[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]“The professional lives and collective bargaining aspirations of skilled craftsmen cannot be dictated by individuals who preponderantly wipe tray tables, dispose of trash, or clean the exterior of an aircraft with a mop. Forcing this unnatural alliance guarantees instability.[/background]



[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Thats not a union i want on the property![/background]



[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]That's precisely the union I want on the property. Lee Seham and AMFA has identified the biggest part of our problem.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Unskilled, uncertified workers, who could care less whether or not their working on aircraft or doing something else for $20 an hour should not be in a position to hitch a ride on the backs of licensed aviation professionals. There is not a commonality of interest between the two classes. The one class wishes to use the other to get as much as they can without having to go through years of schooling or having to share in the liabilities the other class must carry.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Placing myself in the shoes of an airline manager I wouldn't mind paying a skilled worker what he or she is worth in the marketplace but I'd be damned if I would be a part of a situation in which I am forced to pay larger numbers of an unskilled workforce wages and benefits that are more than market rates simply because they have aligned themselves with the skilled. I'd contract out first.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]If your a licensed aviation professional it is time to lead[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]AMFA at AA the time is now[/background]

 

[AANOTOK]

Really proAMT? My wages and benefits are more than market rates (overpaid). Both you Lee Seham and Dell-Femine can kiss my unskilled fleet service a**. Brother, when/if you get that new union, be sure and take that high ass pedestal you sit on with you!

 

[Zom JFK]

Hey AAnotok just laugh at nitwits like this.