Why Would You Not Support The New Plan?

[767jetz]

FlyingHippie,

My comments were specifically about USA320 (and possibly bigbusdrvr, from his last comment). I do not believe that most people want to prosper at the expese of others.

bigbusdrvr,

You crack me up. Maybe I missed the sarcasm, but don't hold your breath. Unless maybe you want a crack at flying the old 767-200's that UA put on the chopping block a long time ago.

As Tilton said, our plan is strong and we will emerge regardless of the ATSB decision. JP Morgan and Citigroup (the largest financial institutions in the world) both back our plan. Rest assured there will be money to emerge. The only question is at what cost. (ie: interest rate) With UA expanding it's international routes I don't forsee selling off any major assets.

USAir's walls are quickly closing in on you. I sincerely hope you guys/gals can get the nose above the horizon before it's too late. But it won't happen at the expense of UA, as Chip and a small group of misguided individuals have been hoping for.

P.S. at least we agree about my assesment of your fellow pilot's motives.

 

[Phoenix]

USA320pilot's motivation has always been,...

Of course he will claim that I am attacking him,

Now. Now.

Just because EVERYONE is out to get him doesn't mean we shouldn't share in his paranoia about the future of USAIR.

 

[N628AU]

MDA/J4J opportunities (some employees)

USA320Capt,

Whatever happened to a job for all furloughed employees at Mid-Atlantic? Some job classifications were not even offered there. This was an outright lie by upper management.

 

[USA320Pilot]

767jetz:

Your comments are wrong, as usual. In regard to my choice of US Airways over United, I am dramatically farther ahead today by accepting employment at US Airways than if I had returned to United.

Here's why and you can do the math:

At US Airways I was "A" scale at United I would have been "B" scale.

At US Airways I upgraded to Captain in 4.3 years at United it would have been over 8 years.

At US Airways we took pay cuts in the 90's and received follow on payments of twice our cut and profit sharing. At United I would have sustained tremendous ESOP cuts and lost my ESOP stock.

At US Airways I have been able to retire from the USAFR and realize significant amount of economic benefits due to capital gains and smart asset allocation, which would have not been possible if I had worked at United.

I'm not going to enter into a debate with about your company ad US Airways, but in my opinion the only reason you visit the US Airways board is to see if there is corporate transaction news about our two companies.

You rarely post on this board unless your company is mentioned.

By the way, I understand that United will not get the loan guarantee as requested and the board is now considering "conditions" to permit approval. Moreover, the board could require deeper cuts to LCC levels and pension termination as a condition of the loan guarantee.

If United is unable to meet the requirements, then the company will have no other option than to obtain an equity investor like Air Canada and US Airways and/or sell more assets.

I'm no fan of Holly Hegeman, but a friend of mine recently emailed me a comment from her weekly update that said, "In what has to rank as one of the more interesting tidbits we heard last week -- we understand that Dave Siegel, ex-CEO of US Airways, is camped out in the offices of a friend -- that friend being David Bonderman. The offices being the offices of Texas Pacific Group. As most of you probably recall, TPG was the first company to propose an equity financing deal for US Airways when it went into bankruptcy protection. But David Bronner and the Retirement Systems of Alabama outbid TPG. TPG never looked back. RSA got the deal. As those of you who are familiar with TPG know, the company only moves when it is convinced it has the best possible deal in hand. It just might have that opportunity here -- and sooner than expected. Has this apparent rapid move towards another bankruptcy filing by the airline re-ignited the rumors of a possible move by TPG to "cherry-pick" the assets of US Airways, and eventually try and combine these with a struggling United Airlines at some point in time?"

"Now, what do you think? Yet another reason I remain hesitant to say the demise of US Airways is a foregone conclusion. Maybe as we know it now the airline is a goner -- but maybe not as a very different animal," she said.

767jetz, it appears Hegeman like David Bronner has is singing the UCT song too.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[767jetz]

You rarely post on this board unless your company is mentioned.

Uhhhh...

Is it me, or is this guy really dense?

 

[gogogadget]

1. Why are low cost competitors making money and every legacy airline losing billions of dollars?
-- Most have started from scratch with not retiree benefits, relatively short pay grade increases and streamlined operations from the start. They do not have the expense because they move wisely and are doing one thing and they are good at it.

2. If US Airways continues to lose money and violates the terms of the loan guarantee, what is the likely outcome for the company?

History cerca TWA EAL PanAm and others

3. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and elects to execute a formal reorganization, what’s the likely outcome for each labor group?

More un happiness, less teamwork, less comradrie, less customer satisfaction, less trust, less of everything.

4. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and liquidates, what benefits do employees receive?
Most likely none except the satisfaction of knowing they worked for a good airline. In this world of corrupt ethics and politics mostly everything we have left is dignity.
5. If US Airways fails, what are your specific job options?

The good thing is that I know people that worked for Pan Am, Eastern and others and they are alive and well and many are still doing what they loved. Just in a different format. Many have started businesses, others are flying corporate jobs or working at other airlines up to and including JBLU. Seems where there is a will there is a way. Just look at the many FBO's and flight schools and charter operations and airlines that have been started by former defunct airline employees. Usairways is not the end all to be all, neither is American, Delta or Jetblue. If you love what you do, then do it well and with all of your heart, pay comes and goes. Heck the CEO of American was once a ramper for CAL. Obviously not limited by the Name just the persuit of doing what he loves to do.

USA320 my suggestion is to stop trying to scare everyone with the #5 question. It seems rather demeaning suggesting that no one will get a job. If you can get one then they can too. Might be a bit painful but not impossible!

 

[FlyingHippie]

Uhhhh...

Is it me, or is this guy really dense?

i call it online vertigo.

 

[TheLarkAscending]

i call it online vertigo.

"Thick As A Brick" --- Jethro Tull

 

[bigbusdrvr]

USA320,

Since you appear to proclaim you have "inside" information and have seen the business plan 1,000,000 times...

fess up and post the major job layoffs planed if these concessions go through! Or are you too afraid of a "NO" vote if you tell the "whole story".

I've been waiting for you to post it, and you are only spewing a portion of the plan. :angry:

Hey pitbull,

I'll tell you how many layoffs........


Nonessential personell adios.....if your a liscensed mtc or pilot your essential.

Ramp and essential customerservice stays....

For the f/a's....red is coke, green is sprite....training is over

Crandall got it approved in the early 90's, 6 days training....guess whool be cleaning airplanes or .....

 

[PITbull]

Hey Bigbusdrvr,

lol....I guess you're going to play this cherade....

ALL GROUPS WILL EXPERIENCE SIGNIFICANT FURLOUGHS.

PILOTS, FA, MTC AND RELATED, AGENTS.

PS; Guess you don't read current events. Flight attendants will be certified starting 2005.

 

[USA320Pilot]

767jetz:

767jetz said: "Is it me, or is this guy (USA320Pilot) really dense?

USA320Pilot comments: 767jetz, would you care to comment on the following articles?

See Story

See Another Story

767jetz, I'm not going to argue with you, but if United is so strong than why is it losing more money than any other airline in the world? There is no question US Airways has its problems, but its new business plan is brash and because the Arlington-based company is smaller than the Chicago-based company, US Airways' plan may have a higher chance of success.

According to the Financial Times, if United misses out on the loan and if fuel prices remain high, United could face a cash crisis later this year. It had $1.6bn of unrestricted cash at the end of April but faces further payments of about $500m in September. One condition of its current funding is that United maintains $1bn in unrestricted cash.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

USA320Pilot

There you go again skirting the debate. You started this thread with some questions to debate now debate them. You say no one wants to debate I am saying debate me and the rest that answered our question. Heck you won't even acknowledge me let alone debate me and you want to be taken seriously? You want credibility you have to earn it.

USA320 asks for debate he gets a offer but refuses because he claims do to my Alias I am closed minded, The old judge a book by its cover. Of all people he claims somebody is closed minded. If that isn't the most hypocritcal thing I ever heard. He refuses to debate someone because the other person has a name that suggests he has a strong view opposite his. So he shuts you out.


usairways_vote_no Sent: Lets debate on board, Jun 14 2004

Why do you say no one wants to debate and I take you to task and you ignore me? Do you know how foolish you make yourself look?

USA320Pilot Foolish, Jun 13 2004

I will debate anybody who offers a reasonable discussion, but must of the posts lack substance or are unprofessional.

To be honest, your User Name does not suggest an open minded thought process and I rarely if ever read your posts.

With all due respect, I belive "perception is reality" and your User Name creates a strong initial impression, which has caused me to ignore your posts.

Respectfully,

xxxx

EDITED IN: I forgot to quote what he told you all before in this thread. Mind you I had posted in the thread before he stated this and this was before he informed me he doesn't read my posts

USA320Pilot says:
I normally do not read very many posts on this forum because many of the posts lack decorum, however, I have read every comment in this topic.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

767jetz:

Your comments are wrong, as usual. In regard to my choice of US Airways over United, I am dramatically farther ahead today by accepting employment at US Airways than if I had returned to United.

Here's why and you can do the math:

At US Airways I was "A" scale at United I would have been "B" scale.

At US Airways I upgraded to Captain in 4.3 years at United it would have been over 8 years.

At US Airways we took pay cuts in the 90's and received follow on payments of twice our cut and profit sharing. At United I would have sustained tremendous ESOP cuts and lost my ESOP stock.

At US Airways I have been able to retire from the USAFR and realize significant amount of economic benefits due to capital gains and smart asset allocation, which would have not been possible if I had worked at United.

I'm not going to enter into a debate with about your company ad US Airways, but in my opinion the only reason you visit the US Airways board is to see if there is corporate transaction news about our two companies.

You rarely post on this board unless your company is mentioned.



Regards,

USA320Pilot

USA320Pilot he says he won't debate money I am I sure he means it too but that will not stop him from writing 21 lines first about money.


Then look at the last sentance of hs quote

USA320Pilot says:
You rarely post on this board unless your company is mentioned.

But look at this quote earlier today

USA320Pilot says:
I normally do not read very many posts on this forum because many of the posts lack decorum

Hello again what is it? I guess I don't need to point out the credibility issues here

 

[767jetz]

usairways_vote_NO,

Don't let him get to you. He is so far in outerspace it's hard to comprehend. Everybody knows it. You can't reason with an unreasonable person, so don't even try. There is no credibility.

He is blissful in his ignorance. And the scary part is that he actually believes himself. He really thinks that he is more insightful than everyone else. So you will never get through. In his mind everyone else is the problem. It never occurs to him that it might be him.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...

 

[767jetz]

Here are some quotes from the articles listed:
-----------------------------------------------------
{"But now, being significantly better than we(UA) were 18 months ago, we can avail ourselves of the opportunities that Chicago, Denver, San Francisco, Dulles, the Pacific, Norita, Ho Chi Minh City present to us."

Second, he says United's labour contracts, revised during bankruptcy, will deliver $2.5bn of annual savings. These constitute a "foundational asset that none of the other folks at network carriers have available. We have a six-year contract with their growth rate of only 1.2 per cent per year, no re-openers and no snap backs."}
------------------------------------------------------

And this:

{The concern about revenues has prompted a request from the ATSB that United test its plan against more pessimistic revenue assumptions.

"As a result of these stress testings on the revenue side, we got the revenue growth down to zero over the course of the plan. We [could still] repay the loan," Mr Tilton says.}
-------------------------------------------------------

Or this:

{A ratings agency hired by United, believed to be Standard & Poors, also concluded that United would be able to repay its obligations, including more than $4bn of pension obligations, even "under the most extreme scenario"}

{He adds: "I'm confident about the business plan and the upside of United. I'm confident about the strength of the advice I have received from banks - who happen to be the two largest banks in the world."}


- 767jetz comments: Who has been saying all along that the 2 biggest financial institutions in the world are confident in UA's plan? Could he be hinting to the possibility of these BANKS (not equity investors) providing exit financing regardless of the ATSB guarantee?
--------------------------------------------------------

Finally this:

{United's additional cost-cutting plans are not currently included in the business plan submitted to the Airline Transportation Stabilisation Board, Mr Tilton said.

Mr Tilton said the airline was also working on a plan to increase revenues by $300m and make a further $300m in non- labour cost cuts over the next year.

- 767jetz comments: These additional savings are above and beyond that which was submitted to the ATSB. Do you think it's possible that $300 Million in increased revenue AND $300 Million in savings might offset any loss of revenue from a failure of USAirways?
---------------------------------------------------------

So UAS320pilot,

What is so dire in these articles? A few additional speculative comments and opinions of the author? Or did you expect that most people won't bother to read them and just take your word that it proves your doom and gloom theories?

Not likely. No matter how much you hope it to happen, you will not benefit at the expense of the United employees. Don't concern yourself so much with our challenges. We've got it under control. You'd be better served planning your next career move.

Respectfully...