With Or Without Employees?

[USFlyer]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought someone furloughed was denied a job. A furloughed person is unemployed, so why would they not qualify for this program?

 

[robbedagain]

here's a question: IF the unions say to mgmt "you have enough money to give millions away to two people who walked away in one month then you're asking to us to give back more," sorry no give backs I just wonder how mgmt will interpet that?

 

[High Iron]

"robbedagain": here's a question: IF the unions say to mgmt "you have enough money to give millions away to two people who walked away in one month then you're asking to us to give back more," sorry no give backs

I just wonder how mgmt will interpet that?

"Cheeky peasants!"

 

[PITbull]

They won't "interpret" it! Management holds the cards. They can liquidate and recover their monies or they can run the place under their rules and wage structure.

Your choice is to"

accept the changes cheerfully, with a smile on your face and a song in your heart.

Defy logic and the balance sheet and fall on your sword as you remain defiant to the end.

Or seek a middle ground, knowing you are playing a high stakes poker game with a hand that is weak at best.

Settle and look to find work elsewhere.

None seem very tasty, but half a chocolate cake is better than none.

Bob,

YOu are not correct. We as labor don't have to do anything but breath and die.

If our labor groups concede to go to the table and our horse is in this race...WE WILL BE ASKING FOR MAJOR RETURNS ON OUR INVESTMENT. If these jobs are going to be what the plan is calling for and that is permanent changes....our investment as labor will be huge returns, none like ever before.
I told mangement to get that piece ready ASAP. Management says labor is a major player in this "new plan". Without labor participation, there is no plan, and no survival.


FYI for you and all: Pittsburgh is 8,000 U employees, translates to 25% of the work force alone. You catch my drift.....the other MAJOR piece to the business plan is....."ratification".Without serious stock returns to each employee....it won't pass. This I can assure you. The pilots make up less than 1/6th of the population of labor, their vote will not carry through the plan.


Senior management received major stock incentives and only thing that was required was their time.....no performance targets were necessary.

This 'plan' takes labor's major participation to even implement...WE WANT GREATER RETURNS! If our f/as want us at the table, the next step for me is this "return" piece.

It could make or break the deal....Sit back and watch. 😛h34r:

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

There will be NO meaningful profits in many many years. The "plan" calls for taking the capital and putting it back into the business. The concept of "incentives" will not work. Mangement's incentive is to provide to all of labor what they demand in return. Some labor groups demand job preservation instead. Mangement must find out what it is that each labor group demands.

Regardless, my personal vote for concessions is a resounding NO!.

However, the f/as as a majority will rule the day. If they say go to the table, we go. If they say, NO MORE! Won't matter the return, we won't get there to worry about it.

 

[RWerksman]

You're kidding, right? Everyone in CCY will be just fine if US goes under. Many if not all of those folks have skills that can be readily applied in other industries. Plus, the unemployment rate in the DC area is under 4 percent, so jobs are not difficult to find in this area.

I disagree completely! If I was looking to higher for a management position, someone who ran an airline into the crapper wouldnt rate real high with me.

Q: Why did you leave USAirways?
A: Becuase it went bankrupt, and was liquidated.

Q: And why did you do there again?
A: I was the CFO / the CEO / the Ben Baldanza guy. I did important stuff there.


Just look how successful the management staff from Braniff is now. 😀

 

[PITbull]

Why won't incentives work? They work for NuCor Steel, the darling of good management according to you among others.

So then a combination of stock and profit sharing needs to be considered since profits will be a ways off.

NuCor did not give major concessions twice and counting. NuCor never had a layoff, NuCor pays their employees the highest in their industry, etc.

Apples and oranges.

 

[Fly]

:blink: US Airways is offering incentives? I think you're blaming the wrong people Piney. Management isn't offering them a chance at incentives....so why blame them for not attaining them?

 

[USFlyer]

I disagree completely! If I was looking to higher for a management position, someone who ran an airline into the crapper wouldnt rate real high with me.

Perhaps you need to define management. There are something like 2,000 CCY employees, many of whom work extremely hard day in and day out

 

[ITRADE]

NuCor did not give major concessions twice and counting. NuCor never had a layoff, NuCor pays their employees the highest in their industry, etc.

Apples and oranges.

A decent portion of Nucor's line employees' pay is in the incentives/profit sharing. Their straight hourly wage rate is lower than USS and is likely lower than ISG.

This I can guarantee you 100% percent.

And, Nucor doesn't bother with layoffs because they don't need to. They hire only what they need - at the minimum - and operate efficiently with high ton per man hour ratios.

And, amazingly, they're 100% non-union. There have been several attempts by the goons at USWA to unionize them (especially the Darlington and and Hertford facilities). Every time, the workers told the USWA to go pi$$ on another tree.

 

[ITRADE]

Perhaps you need to define management. There are something like 2,000 CCY employees, many of whom work extremely hard day in and day out

Lots make about 22,000 a year.

 

[tadjr]

Would a switch to an incentive based pay system be a negotiating point?

IF there are going to be more W2 cuts, then I say go for it.
Sold 4 $50.00 Firstups yesterday without even trying. Of course, come busy season or certain flights/days/times this isnt an option available to earn extra so you'd have to balance the give and take.
Wouldnt be agreeable to doing this type of system and then have the company come up with some other plan to eliminate the chance to make more.

Kinda like the free upgrades for Prefereds (but now only 8 seats on some planes).

From an agent standpoint you also have the problem of where you work and what you'd be able to do "extra" to make up incentive money. A counter agent cant sell a Firstup, a gate agent couldnt get a bonus for collecting excess baggage, and someone working in baggage service couldnt do any of this. You'd definitely have to put some major thought into this process before anyone would agree to it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

tadjr,

You've identified the biggest problem with any system where incentives are a significant part of the pay - they involve sales. That's why most incentive systems in place in this industry involve the airline meeting set goals (on time, etc) and everyone gets a small incentive.

Jim

 

[colorado_cowboy]

What do you all think?

By the looks of this poll its pretty obvious what most of the people think.

 

[funguy2]

"With or Without Employees"

Something Mr. Bronner probably said once or twice, which has been repeated on here approximately a gazillion times.

Regardless, nobody here knows what "With or Without Employees" means. USA320Pilot would have us all believe that this means another Ch. 11 filing and S1113 renegotiating of the IAM contract, which according to USA320Pilot is guaranteed to be successful (much like his guarantee on the arbitration). However, that would imply WITH EMPLOYEES.

Thus, I can only conclude that WITHOUT EMPLOYEES means Ch. 7. Liquidation. Either by Bronner's choice, or when some labor group (maybe IAM, maybe not, I do not pretend to know the future) forces it because the required concessions are too deep.