Aa To Spin Off Overhaul Maintenance

[Decision 2004]

Because our pay was significantly higher than market rates at that time.  Most other airlines were topping out around $21-22 an hour while our pay was $25-26 an hour.

[post="247140"][/post]​

I think the TWU calculates "market rates" based on the average of WalMart, Home Depot, Lowes, and Walgreens. In 1983, the entry pay rate was lowered by the TWU from $13.05 to $10.00. And then in 1995, the TWU lowered that to $9.00, and now it is even lower than that. What is the current "market rate" and who set that standard? Which union in the industry currently has members being "market rates" and what is that per hour?

When you consider the pre-funding of retirement health, the union sponsored/theft LTD insurance, and the Flex Benefits out-of-pocket debacle, even the topped out wasn't above market rates, much less the lenghty top-out scale that many had not yet reached.

You and the likes of j7915 are on board with the "in bed with management" unionism alright. It shows in nearly every post the two of you make.

What is ironic, is "market rates" dictated the 6 year 6 1/2% robbery, yet the TWU set the new industry standard with the 2003 without further ratification restructure. It always someone else's fault with you industrial unionist and your stories don't stay consistent from one sell-out to the next.

Meanwhile your buddy Art Luby really likes to stir the pot.

 

[Decision 2004]

In an earlier posting someone mentioned that fuel is as cheap today as 20 years ago, true. Unfortunately, airline tickets have gone down in real terms by at least 50%.

[post="247214"][/post]​

That's your wonderful Jimmy Carter (democrat for the working man) deregulation in action.

Over capacity and sell-outs by industrial unions have lead to and allowed the price reduction. You know as well as anyone that the TWU could have reduced headcount and preserved some pay and benefits. But hell no. they chose to fund the over capacity problem further with larger concessions to keep the jobs and/or the dues payers. And now that same over capacity funded by TWU concessions is leading to lower ticket prices and you want to pretend and make us believe that someone else is responsible? Oh OK, I see your logic now. <_<

Why dont we work for min. wage, compete with the bus, and employee thousands of illeterate workers to maintain the safety of the aircraft? Oh,that's right, that is the TWU/Jim Little plan, isn't it?

Spit fire j7915, with the Bankruptcy Courts shafting the workers while the silent AFL-CIO sits and watches, why not lower the prices a little more, lose alot more money and everyone fly under BK protection?

AA could get rid of meals, drinks, pillows, and chrage fo seat belts, and herd the customers like cattle into the alumnium tube.

 

[seed]

I see AA in for a struggle to stay competitive with the other major airlines. AA is the only one to continue to do it's own major O/H inhouse, for how long I wonder. Once MCIE is gone, and it will happen, then look out AFW! You will be next to be fed upon.

It will be interesting to see what "changes" or "different usages" of our contract that Burchette and Romano will enact to save the 500M.

Does anyone else see it a bit weird to have union representation onboard with management, to yield a higher profit through contract manipulation?

Point being, if the industry demands a furlough, then furlough! Do not sell your union soul to the management team.

We need to manipulate the cost of flight, not the cost of mx.

 

[Decision 2004]

I see AA in for a struggle to stay competitive with the other major airlines. AA is the only one to continue to do it's own major O/H inhouse, for how long I wonder. Once MCIE is gone, and it will happen, then look out AFW! You will be next to be fed upon.

It will be interesting to see what "changes" or "different usages" of our contract that Burchette and Romano will enact to save the 500M.

Does anyone else see it a bit weird to have union representation onboard with management, to yield a higher profit through contract manipulation?

Point being, if the industry demands a furlough, then furlough! Do not sell your union soul to the management team.

We need to manipulate the cost of flight, not the cost of mx.

[post="247261"][/post]​

That is like asking a chicken to soar with pride and conduct itself like an Eagle.

You cannot implement craft union philosophies into an industrial union. There is NO such thing as a hybrid.

 

[Bob Owens]

Because our pay was significantly higher than market rates at that time. Most other airlines were topping out around $21-22 an hour while our pay was $25-26 an hour.

[post="247140"][/post]​

If we wanted market rates then why have a union?

Since we pay dues we expect union rates, and the TWU has never delivered what those with comparable skills in union jobs get.

 

[mweiss]

What is the current "market rate" and who set that standard?

Market rates aren't set. They're viewed. Prices can be set by fiat, but then they're no longer market rates.

 

[enough already]

Does anyone else see it a bit weird to have union representation onboard with management, to yield a higher profit through contract manipulation?

Do you mean coming right out and saying their in bed, errrr, onboard with the company, as opposed to the last 20 some odd years of under the table, lap dog unionism the twu has given us?

 

[FWAAA]

If we wanted market rates then why have a union?

Since we pay dues we expect union rates, and the TWU has never delivered what those with comparable skills in union jobs get.

[post="247285"][/post]​

I'm assuming that by "union rates" you mean above-market rates.

So how does a union extract above market rates? And keep them, over the long term?

 

[Buck]

I'm assuming that by "union rates" you mean above-market rates.

So how does a union extract above market rates? And keep them, over the long term?

[post="247326"][/post]​

Why do you guys continue to refer to the TWU as a union?

 

[mweiss]

So how does a union extract above market rates? And keep them, over the long term?

[post="247326"][/post]​

I'm sure you know the answer to this one, but I'll say it anyway.

A union extracts above market rates by creating what is effectively a labor monopoly. It keeps them, over the long term, by maintaining that monopoly.

In a very real sense, it is the same thing that the legacy airlines did about fifteen years ago.

 

[mweiss]

Why do you guys continue to refer to the TWU as a union?

[post="247330"][/post]​

I think it has something to do with the name.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I think it has something to do with the name.

[post="247336"][/post]​

It certainly has nothing to do with their bargaining ability.... :down: :down:

 

[Boomer]

mweiss,

Actually, in the true free market system that you seem to espouse and which other Unions are recognized through the NLRA; any Union and any employer are free to engage in self help at the end of the contractual term or at the beginning of any contractual abrogation by either party.

Only Unions involved in mass transport are forced under the auspices of the RLA, created ensure National Security during the early 1900's. The stated goal of both the RLA and the LMRDA were the protection of the unimpeded flow of commerce between the states which created the need for "status quo" provisions and prevented the contractual parties from enjoying the freedoms of other industries and unions covered by the NLRA.

Workers covered under the RLA and LMRDA were recognized as contributing to the nations security and prosperity; they were granted compensation premiums for the lawful restriction on the ability of the Unions to withold their services and to ensure that such services were continued 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

Would you support such "renovations" of the RLA to allow impairement of the status quo?

 

[mweiss]

Boomer, I said before that I would.

I don't really support laissez-faire business, however, since there are things that the market cannot address. What often comes across as espousing a free market system is more explaining the behaviors that we see, and how one would best be served in such a system. In other words, it's more about the way things are than it is about the way things would be if I were the benevolent dictator.

 

[AAmech]

AAmech beat me to it. AA's AMT pay had advanced a little faster than the competitors.

I've never successfully organized thousands of workers to fire their union and replace it with a different union (or course, neither have you, so we have that in common), but if I were gonna try, I'd stop insulting my union brothers by continually asserting that the union has screwed us for 22+ years. Try to focus on the future and stop rubbing their noses in 22+ years of "failure." Emphasize how Delle is gonna help everyone in the future and not how everyone has been a chump for all these years by sticking with the TWU.

[post="247195"][/post]​

Your catching on to amfa's tactics FWAAA. The amfa organizers stay negative on the TWU because they really have nothing positive to say about their own organization. They've been back in business since around 1998 and its been one disaster after another at the companies where they are the bargaining agent!
Delle actually does talk about the future quite a bit because its the PRESENT he doesn't want to discuss! And with his track record I wouldn't want to discuss it either!