AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[PITbull]

So from what I am reading here, you don't think that whoever gets elected should be running the office from their home in another city and should be in the office daily ??? Correct???
.
Do you think Lynn and Rob are going to move to PHL ???? (LMAO)

Perhaps we should ask ALL candidates if they are willing to be in PHL~~ IN THE OFFICE DAILY ~~and not work from home. My guess is that anyone not presently living in base wants the luxury of working from home and not commutting or moving there.

No, that's not what I'm saying. If the members are paying for an office in the base, then the reps should be in there working at least 3-4 days a week. And what's with the smartalic comment, LMAO? You still remain clueless on what kind of work goes into this? It's not the same as working on a committee, my friend. I am sure I've said this to you before. It might be the folks your hanging with that never put in that kind of commitment and time to this work that keeps you in the dark.

For folks who have to commute, it has always been since way before my time , that the MEC and LECP go to the office 3-4 days a week. That's what the MECs have done and the locals who were elected that have to commute. After all, these are not "life time" positions. If you commute, you can start your commute home on the third night or 4th day, or some folks have a comuter pad in base. Being that there are only 3 bases, just like you, have to commute to your base to fly. Same thing.

And, again Stew...you know better. Don't hang on every single word literally to make an argument you aren't going to win. LECP is a 24/7 business, and Lynne and Rob always worked that way. Same way I did. 24/7. You won't find that from many people who run for office, and take these positions.

There was never a time where I didn't write back to every single f/a who wrote me an e-mail or called me on the phone with questions that needed answers from the LECP; not an office staff member. Didn't matter what base you were from. The f/as deserve an answer back in a timely fashion. Many days I didn't go home from the office until 1 a.m. Many, many days like that.

That's union business, and that's the privilege of being elected by a group who put their trust in you to assist them when an issue arises.

Making yourself available at all times. Not everyone can do this. they don't have the energy or passion for it, with too many other distractions in there personal life. Or, they just don't care to.

This is why the locals have been cleaned out. To complacent and no longer doing the job they were elected to do. To cowardly to take out the MECP and his cronnie Carol so that new blood can move the group forward, as they have been totally unsuccessful...still same issues since when I left the propety. And note, same players.

 

[PITbull]

I know for a fact that Terry Graf has an apartment in Center City that she has had for years. She will also tell you that she usually only goes home once a month give or take. Can those running from other bases say the same? I don't think so and you can guarantee that if asked Lynn or Rob won't put a number on how often they plan on being in the office weekly. NOBODY on here will convince me that they don't have every intention of running the office from their home city as much as possible. You can be the best unionist on the planet but if you are not accessible to your members other than by phone you are of little use and not that effective. Who are we kidding here?

Oh come on now, let's get real. You can't say that about Rob and Lynne. Just because you live in another state doesn't mean you can't run for these positions. There are folks who get elected and live in their base and still don't show up or work in their office. Lynne and Rob are very dedicated to the f/a group and do the right thing when it comes to representation. They didn't get recalled from their bases, their bases closed. They won their reelections.

I just know that officers who have the privilege of being elected need to be in the office at least 3-4 days a week. That is how I ran the MEC when I was there all the officers were commuters. We enforced the MEC policies and procedures. And they complied.

Just leave it up to the PHL f/as through their vote. So far, the f/as at USAirways are more on top of this stuff than what is read here or rumored out there. They will elect who they believe have the intelligence, and follow through acumen to take the group forward in these very difficult times for the industry.

 

[Travelpro72]

Well it goes a little deeper for me than commuting and running for office when it comes to Lynn and Rob. Let's talk Lynn for a minute. She sat as President in Boston yet did NOTHING....that's right NOTHING as far as speaking her mind about what was going on with negotiations. Well I guess she figured she'd be outweighed by CLT and PHL but did she put up her dukes and let her opposition be heard to such items as the reserve section? HELL NO SHE DIDN'T. Take that to the bank. Instead of pushing against the flow she went right along without a fight. I think she's a nice person but as far as what I mentioned I couldn't vote for her with a clear conscience. Same goes for Rob. What did he do? Their voting record speaks for itself..... Now they find themselves without a seat and want to band together to bring change in PHL? If they were known as the opposition in BOS and LGA I'd be all about their "ticket". Hell I'd be sporting Lynn and Rob tags on my bag. It's not a popularity contest nor is it about a powerhouse resume'. I want someone with the manberries to stand up and defend the membership. It actually takes the administration to work together to achieve results for the members.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Oh come on now, let's get real. You can't say that about Rob and Lynne. Just because you live in another state doesn't mean you can't run for these positions. There are folks who get elected and live in their base and still don't show up or work in their office. Lynne and Rob are very dedicated to the f/a group and do the right thing when it comes to representation. They didn't get recalled from their bases, their bases closed. They won their reelections.

I just know that officers who have the privilege of being elected need to be in the office at least 3-4 days a week. That is how I ran the MEC when I was there all the officers were commuters. We enforced the MEC policies and procedures. And they complied.

Just leave it up to the PHL f/as through their vote. So far, the f/as at USAirways are more on top of this stuff than what is read here or rumored out there. They will elect who they believe have the intelligence, and follow through acumen to take the group forward in these very difficult times for the industry.

I think you have a personal axe to grind with TG.

I think that what you are doing is old style, business as usual negative campaigning. You are trying to carry a grudge even after leaving AFA and US Airways.

What were the circumstances that caused you to resign your union position? I don't remember the details.

You may not want to tarnish your legacy.

 

[songbirdstew]

No, that's not what I'm saying. If the members are paying for an office in the base, then the reps should be in there working at least 3-4 days a week. And what's with the smartalic comment, LMAO? You still remain clueless on what kind of work goes into this? It's not the same as working on a committee, my friend. I am sure I've said this to you before. It might be the folks your hanging with that never put in that kind of commitment and time to this work that keeps you in the dark.

For folks who have to commute, it has always been since way before my time , that the MEC and LECP go to the office 3-4 days a week. That's what the MECs have done and the locals who were elected that have to commute. After all, these are not "life time" positions. If you commute, you can start your commute home on the third night or 4th day, or some folks have a comuter pad in base. Being that there are only 3 bases, just like you, have to commute to your base to fly. Same thing.

The LMAO comment was because Lynn and Rob would NEVER move to PHL. Also as far as the 3-4 days a week.....uh, no. If the officers are getting paid 80 hours flight pay loss then at 5 hours per day that at least 4 days per week, EVERY week they should BE IN THE OFFICE. If they get 90 hours a month then it's two 5 day weeks and two 4 day weeks.
Are Lynn and Rob going to catch the first flight out of BOS or LGA at let's say 0530 to get to the office by 0800? I doubt it.
Aside from that, they've had their chance to make a difference and they didn't...as a matter of fact their voting record shows they went with the flow.
In addition, they both voted for the West to get profit sharing which pissed a lot of people off.
The same goes for Terry, she had her chance. She already was in office. Let's get someone in there who is new because the above folks have already had their shot and didn't do a very good job in my opinion. next.

 

[reserve59]

The LMAO comment was because Lynn and Rob would NEVER move to PHL. Also as far as the 3-4 days a week.....uh, no. If the officers are getting paid 80 hours flight pay loss then at 5 hours per day that at least 4 days per week, EVERY week they should BE IN THE OFFICE. If they get 90 hours a month then it's two 5 day weeks and two 4 day weeks.
Are Lynn and Rob going to catch the first flight out of BOS or LGA at let's say 0530 to get to the office by 0800? I doubt it.
Aside from that, they've had their chance to make a difference and they didn't...as a matter of fact their voting record shows they went with the flow.
In addition, they both voted for the West to get profit sharing which pissed a lot of people off.
The same goes for Terry, she had her chance. She already was in office. Let's get someone in there who is new because the above folks have already had their shot and didn't do a very good job in my opinion. next.

Yes Yes Yes-Lets please get someone in who has not yet had a shot and I will take a chance on a "newbie" Hopefully we will get the right mix of people in and things will change rather than those who go with the flow.

 

[Onestep2flt]

Yes Yes Yes-Lets please get someone in who has not yet had a shot and I will take a chance on a "newbie" Hopefully we will get the right mix of people in and things will change rather than those who go with the flow.

From my understanding there are no real newbies running. That would be nice though. You could really start a new day for the union. Of course those running would say you need "experience". As I have already stated experience and qualified are two very different words! Your former experience in the union does not make you qualified. Even if qualified, you still have to be there for all the right reasons and not "go with the flow". That is what makes this process a very tough one at best.

I don't see any problem with people who commute being in office. However, they must be in the union office on working days. If you are paying yourself you better be there or at an official meeting somewhere. The minute they try to expense a hotel, apartment, Winnebago, or any other living arrangement in base or their personal home they should be gone! If this is truly happening it must be stopped. If you commute you should live under the same rules any other flight attendant lives under. Now, I thing the problem for the two commuters that have been discussed here is the fact that they seem to be in the Flores/Austin camp. Were they not both leaders when all of this started to begin with? Isn't this what this was all about? Put leaders in there that are not on the Flores bandwagon. Maybe I am wrong but something to think about. How did they vote while in office?

Then you have the folks that were there before the recall. Some are running again for other positions. Where do they stand? Were they on the Flores bandwagon? Was their message being stifled by others? What was the individual performance of these folks while in office? They were judged as a team but you may have to consider what their personal views as an individual are. This is very tough because we all tend to pile the whole group together. Though they are suppose to be one voice and we judge them as such, that may not be the reality. You decide.

Then you have the person that seems to have the fire and passion so what is wrong there? This person was in office before and has tons of that "experience". Then you have a former leader that is well respected here basically said while she liked the person they were not qualified for the job. Of course I must note that this leader also mentioned one of the people above as a fighter. So, I am a little confused by that. Perhaps at that time they did not drink the Flores koolaid. Anyway, this person is also accused dropping trips to another candidate who is a rumor monger while overflying and also knowingly flying when going illegal. These may just be rumors in the wind by former union leadership. It does have enough merit to ask this candidate those questions though. I would think this would be verifiable somehow as well.

Does this stuff not sound like a soap opera? Perhaps there is a reality show in the works here.

I am sure we can go on forever and delve into each candidate personally. That is not my intention or my point. I just want people to ask questions to your candidates personally. A lot that has been said here on this board might be a bunch of hot air. I am sure there is more going on at work and other places too. It might just as well have some truth with a little stretching going on. This may be the tip of the iceberg. We may never know. Just carefully consider all the candidates and don't vote for someone because that is who your friend is voting for. If you have questions the only person you should ask is the candidate themselves.

 

[Travelpro72]

As for people who "had their chance" I have to disagree when it comes to Terry Graf. YES she served before but let us not forget why her term ended shall we. She stepped down for a reason.....TO PROTECT THE MEMBERSHIP. Argue that until the cows come home but it's TRUE, TRUE, TRUE. Has she ever been exposed for doing anything "backdoor" or "under handed" behind the memberships back? NOPE! ! ! ! She fights for the membership, is passionate about union business and is a woman not to be crossed when pushed by the company. Again, Terry served but stepped down for the will of the membership.....plain and simple. Rob and Lynn had their chance and did nothing. Now they find themselves stripped of their elected position and want to make a difference? Didn't "THEY" have their chance? Just sayin'.

Oh PS: I heard the rumor a few times about Terry on the negotiating committee that brought us the current contract ie reserve section. I know what she BROUGHT to the company and what the company DEMANDED. With a gun to your head by the company and a knife at your throat by the judge....ask yourself THIS, "WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE" when you vote against her.

 

[PITbull]

Well it goes a little deeper for me than commuting and running for office when it comes to Lynn and Rob. Let's talk Lynn for a minute. She sat as President in Boston yet did NOTHING....that's right NOTHING as far as speaking her mind about what was going on with negotiations. Well I guess she figured she'd be outweighed by CLT and PHL but did she put up her dukes and let her opposition be heard to such items as the reserve section? HELL NO SHE DIDN'T. Take that to the bank. Instead of pushing against the flow she went right along without a fight. I think she's a nice person but as far as what I mentioned I couldn't vote for her with a clear conscience. Same goes for Rob. What did he do? Their voting record speaks for itself..... Now they find themselves without a seat and want to band together to bring change in PHL? If they were known as the opposition in BOS and LGA I'd be all about their "ticket". Hell I'd be sporting Lynn and Rob tags on my bag. It's not a popularity contest nor is it about a powerhouse resume'. I want someone with the manberries to stand up and defend the membership. It actually takes the administration to work together to achieve results for the members.

Travel,

You are so very wrong about Lynne and Rob. Totally totally wrong. That's all they did is oppose what was going on. Mike Flores controlled John McCorky and Anne, alin Was also controlled by Mike flores, and Lynne and Rob collectively with their rollcall votes gave them less than 300 votes, as opposed to over 2500 between CLT, DCA and PHL. No way, no how you could as an LECP undo what flores brought to the table.

You guys, still don't get it yet! If you can understand Terry G. positon on having a gun to your head from a judge in BK, why is it that you can't understand that when you don't have the votes behind in a rollcall, you have no power at the table with your OWN MEC.

None you will understand what goest on until you sit at that table. Some of you did get it as you ousted CLT, DCA and now PHL next. That is a movement in the right direction. But the rest of you who are on here just don't have a damn clue on what it takes to make the changes you expect.

CLUELESS!!!!!!!!

 

[PITbull]

The LMAO comment was because Lynn and Rob would NEVER move to PHL. Also as far as the 3-4 days a week.....uh, no. If the officers are getting paid 80 hours flight pay loss then at 5 hours per day that at least 4 days per week, EVERY week they should BE IN THE OFFICE. If they get 90 hours a month then it's two 5 day weeks and two 4 day weeks.
Are Lynn and Rob going to catch the first flight out of BOS or LGA at let's say 0530 to get to the office by 0800? I doubt it.
Aside from that, they've had their chance to make a difference and they didn't...as a matter of fact their voting record shows they went with the flow.
In addition, they both voted for the West to get profit sharing which pissed a lot of people off.
The same goes for Terry, she had her chance. She already was in office. Let's get someone in there who is new because the above folks have already had their shot and didn't do a very good job in my opinion. next.

I agree. The officers should be in 4 days a week. If they are not commuting...every day. that is what it takes. However, that is not what you have in the offices today, from the MEC to the Chairs.

Even those folks you support who were in the pHL office previously, did not put in their 4 days a week. Yes. I do know the record as it is in the MEC offices. So ask your buddy who is running for VP????? What makes you think she is turning in a new leaf of dedication???? Pit commuter no less. I know her record. She is so up Flores butt she is not even visible anymore.
What changes is she proposing? short of taking him out....it will be same old, same old.

 

[PITbull]

The LMAO comment was because Lynn and Rob would NEVER move to PHL. Also as far as the 3-4 days a week.....uh, no. If the officers are getting paid 80 hours flight pay loss then at 5 hours per day that at least 4 days per week, EVERY week they should BE IN THE OFFICE. If they get 90 hours a month then it's two 5 day weeks and two 4 day weeks.
Are Lynn and Rob going to catch the first flight out of BOS or LGA at let's say 0530 to get to the office by 0800? I doubt it.
Aside from that, they've had their chance to make a difference and they didn't...as a matter of fact their voting record shows they went with the flow.
In addition, they both voted for the West to get profit sharing which pissed a lot of people off.
The same goes for Terry, she had her chance. She already was in office. Let's get someone in there who is new because the above folks have already had their shot and didn't do a very good job in my opinion. next.

I agree. The officers should be in 4 days a week. If they are not commuting...every day. that is what it takes. However, that is not what you have in the offices today, from the MEC to the Chairs.

Even those folks you support who were in the pHL office previously, did not put in their 4 days a week. Yes. I do know the record as it is in the MEC offices. So ask you buddy who is running for VP?????

 

[Travelpro72]

Pitbull, to me it's a case of fighting the fight. I don't care if I could win or not but whether I fought the fight. Talking it over with Mike on the sidelines is one thing but standing firm on saying NO is another. Who cares if you were outvoted, ya voted NO and stand as THE LECP who said no. That is my problem with that situation.

 

[PITbull]

Pitbull, to me it's a case of fighting the fight. I don't care if I could win or not but whether I fought the fight. Talking it over with Mike on the sidelines is one thing but standing firm on saying NO is another. Who cares if you were outvoted, ya voted NO and stand as THE LECP who said no. That is my problem with that situation.

We shall see how this goes, Travel.

Here's to the best folks winning!

And may the f/as at USAirways move forward and set the example for the entire industry!

My hats off to you...Keeping the faith!

 

[songbirdstew]

I agree. The officers should be in 4 days a week. If they are not commuting...every day. that is what it takes. However, that is not what you have in the offices today, from the MEC to the Chairs.

Even those folks you support who were in the pHL office previously, did not put in their 4 days a week. Yes. I do know the record as it is in the MEC offices. So ask your buddy who is running for VP????? What makes you think she is turning in a new leaf of dedication???? Pit commuter no less. I know her record. She is so up Flores butt she is not even visible anymore.
What changes is she proposing? short of taking him out....it will be same old, same old.

Who I vote for and who I support is not any of your business now is it ? How are you such an expert on everything that goes on here since you are not here anymore ? Probably because YOUR good buddies Lynn and Rob keep you up to date on what's going on.

You have a personal ax to grind with Mike and you hope to get those two into office to do your work for you. I always respected you for the most part but it's time to move on. I have said it before and will say it again.

It is time for you to move on.

Trust me, in the next few years when I leave this place I won't be on these boards stirring up trouble that is no longer mine to stir.

BTW...Mustang Sally should be making an appearance soon, shouldn't she ????

 

[SparrowHawk]

Pitbull, to me it's a case of fighting the fight. I don't care if I could win or not but whether I fought the fight. Talking it over with Mike on the sidelines is one thing but standing firm on saying NO is another. Who cares if you were outvoted, ya voted NO and stand as THE LECP who said no. That is my problem with that situation.

Travelpro,

I one very short paragraph you have captured the essence of what's missing in most unions and most civic organizations. We've become so PC that we are afraid to say "NO, I'm sorry but I can't support this BS" as you flip Al Hmingway the bird on your way out of the negotiations.

If those of us who started FFOCUS had any thoughts of effecting real change we would all have just stayed home. All of us felt that even though our prospects of winning were slims, sitting quietly and idly by while employees and customers got screwed. As I've often said, "Someone had to speak". I honestly never wanted to be that guy. Have we made a difference? I think we did to a certain extent. One thing I'm certain of is if we would have been part of the herd of sheep, NOTHING would have changed. At one point Tempe had someone whose first duty was to go on line and read what I posted. I know this to be true because I got calls challenging my comments on several occasions.

Someone in AFA needs to grow a spine and LEAD! LEAD knowing full well the situation is mostly hopeless. Seriously where would we be if George Washington said, "You know we don't stand a chance get someone else". I don't know the words to God Save the Queen.

Next time US puts a contract proposal on the table, AFA leadership should reject it. Next move is to have someone drive onto the lawn at HQ in Tempe and empty a dump truck of manure on the front lawn. It will generate publicity and embarrass US and maybe even effect advance bookings. Group I was with in the '80's dumped a load of Horse Dung on the steps of the Bucks County Courthouse and the event made national TV and our organization was now known as a force to be reckoned with,

I'm adding a video that I think fits out gal Teddy perfectly. Good luck on the contract