American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[swamt]

To be honest at least for me. A few years back now I was trying to figure out where I might be on wages by this year 2018. My calculations came out to around $27 and change. Right now I’m .19 cents under $31. So I’m about $3.50 per hour higher than what I figured.

What I’m saying is I can wait some for a better offer than the “tester” online offer the Company put out. I firmly believe that was a test to see how they need to tailor their real offer before we go into Section 6 if it’s not accepted?

We’ll see?

Agree with you here. Now you see how we felt here while waiting for the better offer. We were still in a good position in order to wait just as you say you are in right now. It's good to be in that kind of position at this point and time in your nego's, as it will get you better offers as it did for us.

The IAM is not in control of the Association. Right now it’s the TWU that’s the Association chair. But technically how I read the Association contract for Negotiations both sides have to be in equal agreement to pass. So there is no authority that can override the other.

I know all that weez, I was being a little sarcastic towards the TWU as it always has seemed like the IAM has always been in charge with how things always end up in their favor and NOT in the TWU's members favor. And trust me, there are still a lot of head strong arguments within the asso I can guarantee you, as you yourself has also pointed out yesterday. They just won't allow it to get out at will they will keep it within their ranks so not to let the company see just how disfunctional this asso. really is on the inside. Hell even GP was in awe in all the differences until he was handed his promotion then he all of a sudden stop all the IAM bashing. Hmmm imagine that...

 

[WeAAsles]

I know all that weez, I was being a little sarcastic towards the TWU as it always has seemed like the IAM has always been in charge with how things always end up in their favor and NOT in the TWU's members favor. And trust me, there are still a lot of head strong arguments within the asso I can guarantee you, as you yourself has also pointed out yesterday. They just won't allow it to get out at will they will keep it within their ranks so not to let the company see just how disfunctional this asso. really is on the inside. Hell even GP was in awe in all the differences until he was handed his promotion then he all of a sudden stop all the IAM bashing. Hmmm imagine that...

It always amazes me how much more you know about us over here working for AA than those of us who actually really do work at AA.

Gary was in awe? You know Gary? You have his phone number?

Anyway please. I don’t want to get back in these weeds again ok. Notice I haven’t commented on your thread in a very long time now. I’m showing you that courtesy.

 

[Kev3188]

Never understood the argument PS over increased wages...still don’t!

Me either. It’s even worse when people refer to it as “free money.”

I have no problem signing it off, but the company has to pay me a premium over dl/ua/southwest, and i'm not talking about .24 cents/hr or even $2.00/hr more.

throw in the insurance issue and if the company gets that, the $36.50/hr TOS is a bargain for the company.

You should be getting a premium over what I get at DL; thats the value proposition a union is supposed to be delivering!

 

[NYer]

You should be getting a premium over what I get at DL; thats the value proposition a union is supposed to be delivering!

Do we give that premium back if profits fall?

 

[WeAAsles]

Crude oil to hit $90 a barrel as diesel, jet fuel demand soars, Morgan Stanley predicts

• Brent crude oil will average $90 a barrel in 2020 as demand for middle distillates like diesel and jet fuel grows, Morgan Stanley says.
• Stockpiles of distillates are nearing five-year lows and refineries are scrambling to satisfy growing consumption, the bank notes.
• New pollution rules in the shipping industry will only increase demand for distillates, Morgan Stanley warns.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/16/oil-to-hit-90-in-2020-on-diesel-jet-fuel-demand-morgan-stanley.html

 

[Tim Nelson]

In Section 6, dealing in good faith means each side needs to move towards the other. An eternal "no," doesn't cut it in that environment. As the airline industry stands today, no major airline will ever be declared at an impasse to trigger a self-help release.

If we go into Section 6 in September with DL and UA passing us in wages plus the uncertainty in the TWU Scope threshold the pressure would mount quickly for the Fleet group.

They won't be presenting complete comprehensive proposals for a couple years, if in section 6 other than a very general opener unless the two parties want to expedite things. As things currently stand, it doesn't look like either side even wants to meet, never mind expedite.

It's entirely up to the company. If they want to drag out section 6, then it will certainly take a couple years, at mimimum. It can start on the preamble and smaller articles and schedule negotiations about once a month. A mediator will almost certainly not even bother to get involved for quite some time. At least it hasn't happened in section 6 from any talks that I'm familiar with. A PEB would take 3-4 years unless the company or union really push for an impasse. I just haven't seen any cases where a mediator, in section 6, is engaged early on. And even then they have no authority other than to try to persuade one side or the other until it recommends a mediator. The whole section 6 favors a company in every case.

And unlike weez declaring 'bad faith' for a company to contract out stations, he is incorrect. And I don't think anyone thinks Parker will close down SJU, maybe farm it out but I don't know why Weez would say he would close SJU down. We do good business there. At any rate, yes, Parker could put some pressure on the Association and look at contracting out 5 stations. 4 of which he most likely wouldn't have to re-open. But on the other hand, if it doesn't make any sense to close and reopen then we can forget about DTW, BNA, IND, etc.

 

[NYer]

They won't be presenting complete comprehensive proposals for a couple years, if in section 6 other than a very general opener unless the two parties want to expedite things. As things currently stand, it doesn't look like either side even wants to meet, never mind expedite.

Disagree. Probability is there will be a counter-comprehensive proposal presented to the Association with the specter of Section 6 if it isn't taken for a vote with only minor changes.

 

[NYer]

It's entirely up to the company. If they want to drag out section 6, then it will certainly take a couple years, at mimimum. It can start on the preamble and smaller articles and schedule negotiations about once a month. A mediator will almost certainly not even bother to get involved for quite some time. At least it hasn't happened in section 6 from any talks that I'm familiar with. A PEB would take 3-4 years unless the company or union really push for an impasse. I just haven't seen any cases where a mediator, in section 6, is engaged early on. And even then they have no authority other than to try to persuade one side or the other until it recommends a mediator. The whole section 6 favors a company in every case.

Disagree again. When they invited a Mediator into the current talks I shared that I believed it was to expedite the process of them getting involved if Section 6 becomes a reality. They will have some historical knowledge as to the advances, or lack thereof, of the positions from the airline and the Association. If they received a preview of the process it is more likely they will act quicker than usual to institute their tactics to reach a deal.

It may be that there is a quick start to the negotiations which then lags as they also get involved in openers for the APA and APFA in 2019.

 

[NYer]

And unlike weez declaring 'bad faith' for a company to contract out stations, he is incorrect. And I don't think anyone thinks Parker will close down SJU, maybe farm it out but I don't know why Weez would say he would close SJU down. We do good business there. At any rate, yes, Parker could put some pressure on the Association and look at contracting out 5 stations. 4 of which he most likely wouldn't have to re-open. But on the other hand, if it doesn't make any sense to close and reopen then we can forget about DTW, BNA, IND, etc.

I understand the argument of "they won't do it," and the reason to make such a claim but to say he wouldn't do it because he wouldn't want to create some "bad blood" seems hollow when their proposal is exactly that, outsourcing. To claim he wouldn't close a station in an attempt to prevent bad feelings seems a bit irrational when considering they want to eliminate thousands of positions, according to the Association.

Whether they do it or they don't, at the very least it is a possibility because they have the contractual language to do so. If there is a decision to send something for a vote or not, that possibility can't be discounted because it affects Members directly and indirectly.

 

[ATD]

You guys are clueless.
Mediators are 99.95 % pro business.
If you want a better contract, make the union put whatever the company offered out for a vote, turn it down.
Then you will see a better contract.
Show me one time where mediation has worked in our industry.
The AMT's are screwed with the fleet service being the decision makers in the room.
Peterson is only concerned with himself. He has done the same exact thing he criticized others of doing. He is a POS????

 

[WeAAsles]

You guys are clueless.
Mediators are 99.95 % pro business.
If you want a better contract, make the union put whatever the company offered out for a vote, turn it down.
Then you will see a better contract.
Show me one time where mediation has worked in our industry.
The AMT's are screwed with the fleet service being the decision makers in the room.
Peterson is only concerned with himself. He has done the same exact thing he criticized others of doing. He is a POS????

Who’s the decision makers you’re talking about? The Members are the ultimate decision makers anyway.

BTW besides Peterson in those Executive level talks almost ALL the IAM side are Aircraft Mechanics.

“The FSC’s are screwed with the Mechanics being the decision makers in the room”

You used to be a really good poster once.

 

[Tim Nelson]

True, that would seem to be the case but man....things sure have gone south since they asked for a mediator. I still think they will once again ask for expedited resolution but I doubt anything is resolved until after Sitos election. He wont dump on the lus mx until after a vote.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You guys are clueless.
Mediators are 99.95 % pro business.
If you want a better contract, make the union put whatever the company offered out for a vote, turn it down.
Then you will see a better contract.
Show me one time where mediation has worked in our industry.
The AMT's are screwed with the fleet service being the decision makers in the room.
Peterson is only concerned with himself. He has done the same exact thing he criticized others of doing. He is a POS????

agree about mediators. Obviously Person went company after he got his gig. I always knew he was a bullcrapper like Alex.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I understand the argument of "they won't do it," and the reason to make such a claim but to say he wouldn't do it because he wouldn't want to create some "bad blood" seems hollow when their proposal is exactly that, outsourcing. To claim he wouldn't close a station in an attempt to prevent bad feelings seems a bit irrational when considering they want to eliminate thousands of positions, according to the Association.

Whether they do it or they don't, at the very least it is a possibility because they have the contractual language to do so. If there is a decision to send something for a vote or not, that possibility can't be discounted because it affects Members directly and indirectly.

btw, a certain "someone" encouraged others to go to HR on me to get me fired for suggesting 5 stations could b gone. And some pollyanna named angelo from lga guaranteed parker cant close stations and blasted me with name calling. lol

All I know is that Prez has stated that parker wants to reduce headcount by thousands, and me thinks he may reduce things the hard way if the goin gets tough.

 

[bob@las-AA]

btw, a certain "someone" encouraged others to go to HR on me to get me fired for suggesting 5 stations could b gone. And some pollyanna named angelo from lga guaranteed parker cant close stations and blasted me with name calling. lol

All I know is that Prez has stated that parker wants to reduce headcount by thousands, and me thinks he may reduce things the hard way if the goin gets tough.

In witch video did Parker mention reducing head count.