American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

I too hope it doesn't come to that, but, I'm afraid the co. will be successful with their convincing the Judge of the requirement of the Perm. RO. Not hard to do with the videos and written statements from the leaders of this asso. I also think a fine will be used in order to get the two sides back to the table with current offer soon to be out for a vote. Quite possibly the scenario that Tim is suggesting. Order granted, fine given to union, and the co. offering to drop or forego the fines if the membership was to vote in the offer. Sort of just like what happened to the Pilots in your post above. I would also think that AA would be smart enough to throw the threat of going to binding arbitration if a no vote was to come out of it. They will more than likely get the union to agree to it prior to sending it out for the vote.
I know these are all scenarios and guesses, but, have we not see this exact game played out before?
Next week marks the Aug timeline the Judge was waiting for, so we will see. Maybe not in the first week but at least by the 2nd week of Aug.

binding arbitration will be sworn once the company agrees to waive any fines. But with the pilots up now, the company may want to send a message and collect any fine. No reason to waive fines when the union is dead.
Separately, you are right about the videos. The Judge order made it clear not to incite members.
2 days ago, the association put out a new video pounding parker on his comments regarding the negotiations and slowdown. Clearly, the union is out of compliance and stupid.They dont listen...but they will.

 

[Buck]

Your chart is wrong, AA, NK and B6 rates are higher

Could you post those rates?

 

[V.O. Reason]

Bottom line nothing will move for maint or fleet till after the 15th.
If nothing happens after that then it’s over for a very long time and the only blame will be directly on this sorry Association and if that happens the moral will be at an all time low IMHO

 

[swamt]

Heard this morning that UPS is about $63.

Yes UPS is in the 60's. We all know the passenger airlines never want to compare UPS or FedEx because they haul cargo not passengers. That doesn't matter to mediators and arbitrators as was proven when our dispatchers won overwhelmingly a case comparfing UPS and SWA dispatchers.

yea but

yea but they only have 1,200 mechanics. Much of their work is contracted out. I'm almost certain they have solid benefits as well. All current employees got a sweet gig.

UPS mechanics do not pay for medical, only has a 2-300 deductible, and doesn't put any of their own money into retirement unless they want to. UPS pays the pension payments. They get a bunch of vac. and time off as well. But, mechanics I talk to say that place is ran like a prison yard.

Because it’s not a Grievance, it’s a violation of a NYC law.

That was my exact point. Why isn't there a grievance filed by the union or the members if the company is not following the sick policy in the contract? And the city of NYC said illegal actions were taken. So where is this asso's grievances over this same issue???

 

[cltrat]

Swamt I suspect those ups mechs are telling you the truth.
I used to know a guy who drove a daily delivery truck for them, they stay on those guys ass.
If you see a second guy riding with one, he’s the supervisor trying to figure why that one is taking so long to deliver his packages

 

[bigjets]

When AA wants to take all away from us, the twu is right there to say not enough take a half days sick pay from the mechanics too, now that AA is offering best contract in the industry the twu says no then threatens summer of pain.

WTF

 

[NYer]

And the way out of this mess is?
The iam has no interest in settling and the twu is bound by its associates...

At a certain point, the Association will be compelled to react. Whether it is by the Permanent Injunction, being held in contempt of the Injunction, proposals getting worse rather than better and/or the industry moving ahead while we are caught in stagnation.

I supposed the Association is hoping the current damage to AA makes them blink before any of those things happen.

 

[dfw gen]

At a certain point, the Association will be compelled to react. Whether it is by the Permanent Injunction, being held in contempt of the Injunction, proposals getting worse rather than better and/or the industry moving ahead while we are caught in stagnation.

I supposed the Association is hoping the current damage to AA makes them blink before any of those things happen.

or the membership finally gets tired of being manipulated,lied to and being taken for granted and dumps the association. which is only supported by the iam, where the twu international it's tolerated and locked into again with no way out. there is no one on the twu side that is happy in the association there is noone in management that is happy with the association. only the ones with the legal loophole are holding on.

 

[dfw gen]

At a certain point, the Association will be compelled to react. Whether it is by the Permanent Injunction, being held in contempt of the Injunction, proposals getting worse rather than better and/or the industry moving ahead while we are caught in stagnation.

I supposed the Association is hoping the current damage to AA makes them blink before any of those things happen.

if they click there heels together and keep saying no. maybe that's the strategy?

 

[NYer]

if they click there heels together and keep saying no. maybe that's the strategy?

That's been the way to go for quite some time. When it fails, they look for an excuse. Then they do it all over again next time.

 

[bigjets]

or the membership finally gets tired of being manipulated,lied to and being taken for granted and dumps the association. which is only supported by the iam, where the twu international it's tolerated and locked into again with no way out. there is no one on the twu side that is happy in the association there is noone in management that is happy with the association. only the ones with the legal loophole are holding on.

Do you remember if AA helped the association form to keep out AMFA?

I seem to remember that AA acted fast for the IBT after delaying/adding names etc the first time we tried a union change with AMFA.

If I remembered that correctly, I’m curious if AA regrets those actions.

 

[lax]

or the membership finally gets tired of being manipulated,lied to and being taken for granted and dumps the association. which is only supported by the iam, where the twu international it's tolerated and locked into again with no way out. there is no one on the twu side that is happy in the association there is noone in management that is happy with the association. only the ones with the legal loophole are holding on.

According to a poster on the mechanics forum the TWU can leave the association whenever they want. Is this not your understanding? And if so why not poll your members and start exit procedures? What's really going on with these so called union experts? Why does the tiny minority have such a hold on LAA? Just makes no damn sense at all

 

[dfw gen]

Do you remember if AA helped the association form to keep out AMFA?

I seem to remember that AA acted fast for the IBT after delaying/adding names etc the first time we tried a union change with AMFA.

If I remembered that correctly, I’m curious if AA regrets those actions.

AA didnt "help the association" initially they were probably thrilled at the inaction and bumbling of the association. in MY opinion initially the twu was negotiating with the company and the iam. when the company realized the depth of division in the association and the lack of solidarity it was a gift from the afl-cio. what is being missread is the frustration, mistrust and resentment from the membership aimed at the company,the iam the twu and the association. what used to be a dedicated industrious work force has been beaten-ed down and demoralized to where there is no slow down just no enthusiasm just a general lack of caring at the perception of mistreatment from all parties involved.

as to how the association came into being JIm Little and Don vedivitch (and this is my opinion) were convinced that in the event of an election between the iam and the twu they would lose. in addition the fiasco with the IBT "staged" raid cost the twu financially. personally i think finances were a lot dire then let on. which put them in a position that they felt they had no choice but to agree to the iam's terms. the "promised" vote on the association was a "sincere" promise until is was pointed out that they did not legally have to vote. they could use the "dues checkoff cards" as a sign of interest in the association. under the NMB rules this is legal there was a 30 day period where an intervener was allowed to file. im sure the iam and the twu were sure that in 30 days enough cards could not be collected to trigger an election, guaranteeing the birth of the association. when i say the vote was a sincere offer that was before Jim and Don became aware of the little manipulation of the rules with check off cards. im sure those to tools were not sharp enough to figure it out on their own, PROBABLY someone from the iam whispered in their ear that little tidbit. the rest is just labor history.

 

[dfw gen]

According to a poster on the mechanics forum the TWU can leave the association whenever they want. Is this not your understanding? And if so why not poll your members and start exit procedures? What's really going on with these so called union experts? Why does the tiny minority have such a hold on LAA? Just makes no damn sense at all

false they can not "leave" or start a card drive they already represent you. there is nothing to leave they are here already. the twu is locked in pretty good. my understanding is that they would have to leave the afl-cio to have a chance at dissolving the association.

 

[ALUS78]

I

At a certain point, the Association will be compelled to react. Whether it is by the Permanent Injunction, being held in contempt of the Injunction, proposals getting worse rather than better and/or the industry moving ahead while we are caught in stagnation.

I supposed the Association is hoping the current damage to AA makes them blink before any of those things happen.

I don't know how it sits with the other employee groups when Parker says take any other airlines contract and we will sign it.