American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

i'm thinking that thursday is huge. if aa earns less than ua off of more revenue than delta and gives crappy guidance...the repercussions will be felt be all.

my hunch is that we'll beat and earn around $900 million, pre-tax, and add a staggering $45 million into our profit sharing kitty. we're only 8xs behind delta for the quarter.

we know the company spent approx. $45 million on dividends for q3 '18 and it remains to be seen how much they spent on buy-backs in the quarter. let's say $355 million.

so, $400 million for shareholders and $45 million for employees.

q3 '18 dl spent $566 million on shareholders and put away $395 million into it's profit sharing kitty.

good info for all the heroes we have. we'll get all the numbers on thursday morning.

those buybacks were costly with how the stock price dropped.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Let me know if one day you decide you want to try and live in the real World. You only get everything you want in Fantasyland or Dreamland.

Otherwise it’s called.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiation

How many in house Ramp Agents does Delta employ?

How many in house Aircraft, Facilities and Automotive Mechanics does Delta employ?

TWU/ IAM Combined at AA is over 30,000

Delta employee count 2018, 86,000
AA employee count 2018, 126,000

Seems as if there is a big difference between carriers who are Union Represented and those who are not, in in house employee count.

Weez give me a contract with what Kev has and ill be in massive cost positive territory. May be able to even go to a small station and work cargo like they do in 17 stations.

And I could really use that profit sharing check as well.

Weez, we arsnt in negotiations anyway, we are in dictation. Like it or not. Sorry.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yeah, there is. We have 43 stations compared to LAAs 17. That’s a pretty telling statement on your prior NCs ineptitude. And before you say it, our list was forged in BK too.

Hopefully, Sito and Alex get it right this time.

Please show your Nc that Wiki Page; maybe it’ll help.

I recall pointing this out to you before and you agreed. You do not have any Stations whatsoever as you have no Union, no Contract and therefore have no ownership of anything at all when it comes to your employment at your Airline. You are an At Will Employee in a RTW State and your Airline “subsidizes” the Stations that you “perceive” you have through a massive (and growing) lower paid unit (Ready Reserve) You have nothing but smoke and mirrors.

And you do recognize that the years 2003 and the BK for us at AA were not exactly easy choice times right? Those were giveback and Bankruptcy experiences.

In your Bankruptcy at Delta the decisions on how to craft your concessions were left solely to Managements discretion. You have to stop using the terminology “We” when you refer to the Company you work for. There is no “We” at Delta except for your Represented Pilot Group. For you there’s only “They” or “Them” (Management)

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez give me a contract with what Kev has and ill be in massive cost positive territory. May be able to even go to a small station and work cargo like they do in 17 stations.

And I could really use that profit sharing check as well.

Kev does not have a Contract.

And I’m not sure “Mr” Nelson but I think you would have to check with Kev many of those cities may be total Ready Reserve staffed? If not there is a healthy mix between the two groups.

It “may” not be as easy for a Class A benefitted Employee to move around at Delta as it is in a Union Shop?

Profit Sharing at AA is a non contractual item as it also is a “gift” granted from Management at Delta Airlines. Delta and AA can change their PS formula grant for most of their employees depending on their whim. My guess is you would prefer to have PS in the security of language as they enjoy at IAM Represented UAL?

I also believe that Delta Employees pay more for their Healtcare benefits than LAA and absolutely far more than you do being IAM Represented.

BTW “Mr” Nelson you do realize they can take everything from Kev in an instant right? They chose to outsource his city to a subcontractor and don’t afford him the opportunity to work anywhere else because they don’t need him as he’s paid too handsomely compared to the RR Class and Kev winds up flat on his back waiting for his unemployment check.

You “Mr” Nelson have Seniority bumping “Rights”

 

[Kev3188]

I recall pointing this out to you before and you agreed. You do not have any Stations whatsoever as you have no Union, no Contract and therefore have no ownership of anything at all when it comes to your employment at your Airline. You are an At Will Employee in a RTW State and your Airline “subsidizes” the Stations that you “perceive” you have through a massive (and growing) lower paid unit (Ready Reserve) You have nothing but smoke and mirrors.

And AA has Envoy...

And yet, your NC still couldn’t figure out how to get out from under such onerous flight thresholds.

And you do recognize that the years 2003 and the BK for us at AA were not exactly easy choice times right? Those were giveback and Bankruptcy experiences.

Didja miss the part where I noted that our station list was also crafted during 1113c?

And even then-as bad as it was- we still kept 40, and successorship language that keeps them open even now. How come the TWU gave up so easily? What gives?

In your Bankruptcy at Delta...

I wasn’t at DL during BK. We didn’t merge until awhile after.

But again, I sincerely hope Alex and Sito figure out how to banish those thresholds to the dustbin of history.

Edit: No station is 100% RR. The closest are 50/50.

 

[WeAAsles]

And AA has Envoy...

And yet, your NC still couldn’t figure out how to get out from under such onerous flight thresholds.



Didja miss the part where I noted that our station list was also crafted during 1113c?

And even then-as bad as it was- we still kept 40, and successorship language that keeps them open even now. How come the TWU gave up so easily? What gives?



I wasn’t at DL during BK. We didn’t merge until awhile after.

But again, I sincerely hope Alex and Sito figure out how to banish those thresholds to the dustbin of history.

Edit: No station is 100% RR. The closest are 50/50.

The reason Stations were cut during both the 2003 concessions and the BK is because those Presidents chose not to salvage them against giving up more pay for the Members they directly represented. So those people in those cities had no choice but to exercise their “rights” or accept lay-off.

Like it or not I do not believe had they agreed to further pay cuts to keep them open the majority Membership would have accepted those deals and they would have failed. Again IMO.

You ignored the Airlines Employment numbers BTW.

As far as flight thresholds. I would love it obviously if the Association could secure the one flight (Mainline or Commuter) per day to staff cities with TWU IAM AA Employees. I think that would be somewhere around 350 locations or so.

The odds of that happening I don’t think are as slim as those 1.6 Bil Lottery draws but I’m not going to waste a Dollar on that bet either.

Last offer publicly known from the Company was to maintain staffed the 40 known current Association staffed cities. We’ll see in time if we can gain more? (I think “we” could)

Operative word again = “We”

 

[Kev3188]

Actually, any time there’s been a RIF here, people have been allowed to exercise into open spots on the system. It’s nowhere near what I find acceptable, but tbh, it beats the heck out of juniority.

As for employment numbers, congratulations; you’re overstaffed. That’s good news for people’s shoulders, and it’s even better if it can be maintained in your next JCBA.

 

[WeAAsles]

I wasn’t at DL during BK. We didn’t merge until awhile after.

Actually coming back to this you’re right. You were at Northwest Airlines. In all honesty I should be asking you what happened there?

You lost absolutely everything. You lost both your Airline Name and your Representation. Your IAM NWA Contract was thrown into a fire pit and even the ashes have been blown to the wind.

The way I write words sometimes I know comes across as cold and maybe even a little cruel but those words are the words of truth my near the Canadian Border friend.

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually, any time there’s been a RIF here, people have been

“”””allowed””””

to exercise into open spots on the system. It’s nowhere near what I find acceptable, but tbh, it beats the heck out of juniority.

As for employment numbers, congratulations; you’re overstaffed. That’s good news for people’s shoulders, and it’s even better if it can be maintained in your next JCBA.

ALLOWED!!! Now that’s the word you need to find out how to change someday?

In the meantime of course I hope the work our Unions put in help you catch a tailwind that can take you to continuing safe shores.

 

[Kev3188]

How about this; “affected employees were able to transfer to any station of their choosing that had an open spot. Benefitted employees could still do so (and keep their status) even if the open spot was an RR position.”

Better?

As for tailwinds, I’ll tell ya what; that LOA and LUS insurance represent a huge value proposition. If Alex and Sito can keep both, it would be a massive boost for the entire industry, not just us at DL.

 

[dfw gen]

How about this; “affected employees were able to transfer to any station of their choosing that had an open spot. Benefitted employees could still do so (and keep their status) even if the open spot was an RR position.”

Better?

As for tailwinds, I’ll tell ya what; that LOA and LUS insurance represent a huge value proposition. If Alex and Sito can keep both, it would be a massive boost for the entire industry, not just us at DL.

on that insurance thing, the iam has already conceded that, by refusing to fight for it.

 

[WeAAsles]

How about this; “affected employees were able to transfer to any station of their choosing that had an open spot. Benefitted employees could still do so (and keep their status) even if the open spot was an RR position.”

All irrelevant as you don’t have an “Employment Agreement” to protect and secure however Delta Management chooses to operate.

The Disclaimer always being:

“All policies and procedures are subject to change”

As for tailwinds, I’ll tell ya what; that LOA and LUS insurance represent a huge value proposition. If Alex and Sito can keep both, it would be a massive boost for the entire industry, not just us at DL.

I’m sure all of those Union guys in the talks are trying including Brothers Garcia and Pantoja. Ultimately we’ll see what’s finally agreed to? But they’re not going to be able to hold out forever as there is a line called “Negotiating in good faith” that I’m sure the Mediator expects BOTH sides to honor.

Have a nice day Kev. Stay warm this season.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

those buybacks were costly with how the stock price dropped.

they do look bad. eventually, it will help the stock price...whenever they match delta's dividend.

they may have bought back 10 million shares in q3, they'll be buying back more than that in this quarter...with the stock in the low $30s. soon, we'll be at 400 million shares outstanding, after starting out at 755 million. unbelievable.

my c/c went to dfw last week for the rah-rah stuff and parker surprised them with an appearance at an assembly. he asked parker about fuel hedging and parker didn't want to hear about it.

parker said he doesn't want to be caught holding hedges if fuel drops.

the thing is, parker doesn't have to hedge 100% of aa's fuel costs. 15%-20%?? totally rejected the idea.

 

[swamt]

Kind of funny when you call them out they tend to disappear they must be getting ready for the protest...

It happens every time doesn't it? They always seem to disappear once they have been called out or proven wrong. Typical, same ole, same ole...

 

[WeAAsles]

on that insurance thing, the iam has already conceded that, by refusing to fight for it.

I have to be honest and say that this is not an unreasonable comment.

Fantastic that the IAM Members in CLT and PHX blew off the Company roadshow to try and sell the LAA Medical but you can’t just say no forever without standing up for wha it is you’re saying no about.

TWU has been doing not just the heavy lifting so far but ALL the lifting period.

This IS the truth.