American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

FYI although I firmly recognize that trying to poke former TWA Employees on here is nothing more than a game to you and I highly doubt that even one actually comes here to read. For purposes of clarity and speaking in regards to the Fleet Service Class and Craft.

The TWA 4/10/01 will be coming up on 18 years ago now this April. If you view the integrated Seniority list that Neutral Javits released TWA FSC’s have over 6000 individuals below them out of 17,000.

With new hires since being added that number has swelled to near 7000 individuals below them out of 18,000.

Fleet Service in STL numbers 151 people. Of that amount 119 are former TWA Employees. 32 never worked for TWA and 26 Employees have less than 4 years.

But I think if your (wished for) doomsday scenario were to happen in STL especially the 119 people (Who don’t chose to retire) will have their pick of anywhere they wish to go with bumping rights having 7000 people below them.

I hope this clears up your confusion once and for all but I am 100% positive it won’t and you will return to (TRY) and poke TWA (LLCers as you call them) again and again until you pass away from this life.

BTW coming back to this one more time. Our TOTAL Fleet complement at the combined AA numbers around 18,000.

119 former TWA Members in STL comprises less than 0.7 percent of the Fleet Service Total.

And around 1.2 percent of the LAA TWU total.

 

[Filter]

Not necessarily Filter.

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I would like to know a city that wasn't listed in the Kasher award that was above the TWA threshold at the time...CLT will be 4/10/01...this exact scenario was discussed within the committee... People who were there when Kasher ruled agreed...I would be shocked if was awarded any other way...If they were above the threshold in 2001 he would have awarded a percentage of their seniority...TWA and AA both staffed CLT and RDU...it clearly states "had never staffed"...I have nothing against TWA and think their seniority will and should be reinstated at DFW...Company seniority that is...

 

[WeAAsles]

I would like to know a city that wasn't listed in the Kasher award that was above the TWA threshold at the time...CLT will be 4/10/01...this exact scenario was discussed within the committee... People who were there when Kasher ruled agreed...I would be shocked if was awarded any other way...If they were above the threshold in 2001 he would have awarded a percentage of their seniority...TWA and AA both staffed CLT and RDU...it clearly states "had never staffed"...I have nothing against TWA and think their seniority will and should be reinstated at DFW...Company seniority that is...

I was mainly talking about any new city that AA may open that could possibly give TWA 25% Seniority rather than the 4/10/01 acquisition date.

I don’t know for sure if there were any former TWA Stations that existed that the language would apply to that might have been closed anyway?

 

[737823]

Why has the staffing in STL more than doubled since early 2014?

http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/aa-fleet-service-seniority.56895/page-3#post-1069950

Again the majority of the operation is Eagle, and LUS had a tiny presence there (didn’t even fly to all hubs) yet since assuming the LUS handling the headcount has doubled?

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

nah, it was a merger, not an acquisition.

You don't understand the law. Sorry

 

[Tim Nelson]

Not something like this:

CLT, PHL, PHX, PIT 100%

BOS, DCA, LGA 25%

All others 12/9/13

This begs the question if STL closes in the JCBA (TWU ageeement and current flight activity would permit) what happens with respect to Kasher? I have to assume that when the S80s leave by the end of the year, that station will only see more Eagle flying. Plus the TW mechanics know the S80 very well, since that was substantially all of TWs fleet. Once the S80 leaves is there any reason to maintain a class 1 MX operations, stores, GSE, etc?

Josh

Due to the MBA (McCaskill Bond Act), The TWU would have tried to negotiate with the IAM to maybe give us 1 year for every 7 years. That was their position against the IAM members at AirTran. I remember the TWU guy (forget his name) came to our offices when I was still there and he thought Delaney would approve this racist TWU proposal. Racist against LUS blood. Delaney was cordial but we laughed our arsses off after he left.

At the end of the day, the case went to arbitration and imputed 2 less years for AirTran employees, except those who stayed in ATL got full credit.

You are correct, Josh, but in this situation, the TWU would have stapled all LUS to the bottom since it wouldn't have been subject to the MBA. The MBA is only triggered when there is not a representational dispute triggered. Without the Association, the IAM would have triggered one.

 

[737823]

Tim,
You know I’ve never supported the association particularly since it is intended to be a dues grab and results in less accountability. The fact that a member in say MCO who moves to FLL may be subject to a new constitution, all new union leadership, etc is outrageous. What happened to “one Union one voice”?

I think especially since DL gave PMNW full DOH, it would have been difficult for the IAM to do much different. Remember the rude awakening the East pilots had from the Nicolau award? I think if anything the PMNW people going to DL, a large, better capitalized, premier global carrier absolutely hit the lotto coming from a scrappy Midwest carrier with a few token international routes.

At this juncture the negotiators need to show some leadership. I mean seriously the other work groups are already preparing for section 6 while you all are waiting for a JCBA after giving away significant leverage with the interim wage increase.

Josh

 

[Buck]

Traditionally at American, the larger of the two unions would absorb the smaller.
Then if both parties are unionized they would use Dovetail. Of course, it did not go that way this time.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
You know I’ve never supported the association particularly since it is intended to be a dues grab and results in less accountability. The fact that a member in say MCO who moves to FLL may be subject to a new constitution, all new union leadership, etc is outrageous. What happened to “one Union one voice”?

I think especially since DL gave PMNW full DOH, it would have been difficult for the IAM to do much different. Remember the rude awakening the East pilots had from the Nicolau award? I think if anything the PMNW people going to DL, a large, better capitalized, premier global carrier absolutely hit the lotto coming from a scrappy Midwest carrier with a few token international routes.

At this juncture the negotiators need to show some leadership. I mean seriously the other work groups are already preparing for section 6 while you all are waiting for a JCBA after giving away significant leverage with the interim wage increase.

Josh

The negotiators will have to cough up the remaining mx scope grabs that the company wants. Otherwise, the company is fine with the continued millions of dollar savings of the twu bankrupt contract.
Fleet is and has been finished other than the association could give more in fleet to take less in mx.
This is what pisses me off.
Not sure what PMNW is (norhwest?)

 

[WeAAsles]

Fleet is and has been finished other than the association could give more in fleet to take less in mx.

Didn’t you say MONTHS ago that you were going to post a PDF of that last offer?

Fleet is not finished even if you go all over the Internet trying to tell everyone that it is.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

You don't understand the law. Sorry

maybe..

how are you doing with oil prices and leverage??

 

[WeAAsles]

maybe..

how are you doing with oil prices and leverage??

Goldman Sachs slashes 2019 oil price forecast amid oversupply concerns
Sam Meredith | @smeredith19
Published 1 Hour AgoCNBC.com

• The investment bank now expects international benchmark Brent crude to average $62.50 a barrel this year, down from a previous forecast of $70.
• Meanwhile, U.S. West Texas Intermediate (WTI) is expected to average $55.50 in 2019, down from a prior estimate of $64.50, the investment bank said in a research note published Sunday.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...shes-2019-forecast-amid-oversupply-fears.html

 

[CremaDiLimone]

did goldman also say that the twu would demand lus get 1 year new aa seniority for every 7 years of iam lus seniority?

the friendly twu that said, "let's share this together"??

it's a merger. the iam could have thrown monkey wrenches into the works if it believed the twu would decimate lus, just like the twu allowed the twa acquisition to occur with twa losing (or most of it) it's twa seniority when competing with twu in most cities.

twa was weeks away from liquidating.

the guy that says we should be grateful for $1,000 profit sharing checks, while delta guys may get 16% of 2018's wages.

is he angling for a corporate job, hoping that parker reads this forum and jetnet comments?

 

[cltrat]

He should be that damn profit sharing for us is nothing more than a bad joke

 

[Kev3188]

Not sure what PMNW is (norhwest?)

Correct.

PMNW= Pre-merger Northwest.