DL requests authority to begin LAX-PVG service

[WorldTraveler]

Not too surprised to see the 717's heading west. California has been lobbying hard for the EPA to start regulating aircraft emissions, and a little appeasement helps keep them at bay.

DL doesn't use any "old" aircraft in CA. the M80s would be all that falls in that category but they don't serve CA.

and dawg,
the 757s in Asia are the ONLY exception just as the 727s were in FRA. and the 757 pilots in Asia are the same type as 767s which is not presently true with 717 pilots.

MCI-LAX was a SINGLE flight. DL is ADDING mainline capacity as fast as they can get airplanes and train pilots.

you already forgot about the BOS-LGA conversion from E jets to mainline? all of those cities that are seeing DL mainline service for the first time on any carrier in decades?

 

[metopower]

Well almost true. 717 is a separate category and can not be flown by. MD90/80 pilots. The move to the 717 on so many routes is simple. The connection carriers do not have enough pilots to cover the expansion. Look for DL to take over as much flying as they possibly can. Thus freeing up the connection carriers to move larger RJ's into newer markets until DL can backfill them. Also retiring the RJ 200.

 

[jcw]

Just remember when AA added a flight to LHR from LAX it was accused of flooding the market with capacity

 

[commavia]

Just remember when AA added a flight to LHR from LAX it was accused of flooding the market with capacity

 
No, no, no ... you don't understand.  That's totally different.
 
It was stupid when AA flooded LAX-LHR with totally unnecessary, excess capacity because LAX-LHR is one of the largest longhaul O&D markets in the U.S., it's a market AA has been in for over two decades, in which AA is part of the ATI/JV that is the largest on the route, and AA and/or its ATI/JV partner are the largest carrier at both ends of the route.
 
With Delta on LAX-PVG, it's a smart move because ... oh, wait ... well, uh ... it's a smart move because ... DELTA!

 

[Kev3188]

Well almost true. 717 is a separate category and can not be flown by. MD90/80 pilots. The move to the 717 on so many routes is simple. The connection carriers do not have enough pilots to cover the expansion. Look for DL to take over as much flying as they possibly can. Thus freeing up the connection carriers to move larger RJ's into newer markets until DL can backfill them. Also retiring the RJ 200.

Right. What we're seeing now is the implementation of what we were told would happen with both the retiring of the CR2's and the acquisition of the B717's, with a dash of market share push to boot.

As for the pilots, do you guys have the equivalent of AFP's like the F/A's do? That aside, how hard would it really be to base enough pilots in LAX to avoid a lot of bridging and/or deadheading?

 

[metopower]

What is AFP?.... It is cheaper to deadhead a crew then to open a new base. With the PVG flight the math starts to work in favor of a crew base. The problem is marketing. If they change a/c or move flight then you have pilots in the wrong spot again. Just like DTW ...base but no flying all DH.

 

[Kev3188]

It's a satellite base (for lack of a better term) that is attached to an actual base. For example, PDX is an AFP, and is attached to the SLC base. ORD had one for awhile as well...

Very minimal infrastructure or any of the other items that normally go into starting/maintaining a base.

 

[metopower]

Not really. We call it co domicile. Only in lax and NYC. Those AFP are concessions for the hardship of FA 's in closed bases for the most part. SAN is the only one I can think of that was not a base.

 

[topDawg]

DL doesn't use any "old" aircraft in CA. the M80s would be all that falls in that category but they don't serve CA.

and dawg,
the 757s in Asia are the ONLY exception just as the 727s were in FRA. and the 757 pilots in Asia are the same type as 767s which is not presently true with 717 pilots.

MCI-LAX was a SINGLE flight. DL is ADDING mainline capacity as fast as they can get airplanes and train pilots.

you already forgot about the BOS-LGA conversion from E jets to mainline? all of those cities that are seeing DL mainline service for the first time on any carrier in decades?

Okay....you said they didn't do that. Yes they do. 
 
and wtf are you talking about? See this is why people are such douches to you, your jumping right into the conversation again without knowing what was said (or just not caring) 
Josh said Delta having MCI-LAX flights is going to hurt the IAM chances of getting in. That has nothing to do with LGA, London or the price of gold. 
 

What is AFP?.... It is cheaper to deadhead a crew then to open a new base. With the PVG flight the math starts to work in favor of a crew base. The problem is marketing. If they change a/c or move flight then you have pilots in the wrong spot again. Just like DTW ...base but no flying all DH.

Meto you are ATL based right? 
 

It's a satellite base (for lack of a better term) that is attached to an actual base. For example, PDX is an AFP, and is attached to the SLC base. ORD had one for awhile as well...

Very minimal infrastructure or any of the other items that normally go into starting/maintaining a base.

ORD still has one 

 

[metopower]

Yes I am. But live on west coast and fly mostly Sydney

 

[WorldTraveler]

dawg,
you STILL miss the point.

the 757s are not STRANDED in Asia. DL has a maintenance base there. You do remember how much you argued about the work that DL does there?

Pilots that fly the 757s within Asia also fly 767s across the Pacific.

the 727s in Germany were stranded/remote aircraft and that is part of why the costs of operating the intra-Europe operation were prohibitively expensive. 727 pilots were deadheaded from the US.

the 717s do not presently have maintenance support on the west coast and DL has given no indication of opening a 717 pilot base.

the only way to make the pilot aspect of the west coast 717 operation work is with bridge flights between the eastern US bases and the west coast.

and specific to this discussion, I never said that it was a good idea for DL to jump into the LAX-PVG market.
based on the DOT data I have seen, the route is highly competitive and not as high-yielding as some other Asian routes.

but if DL has truly committed to being in the top global routes - which I have said all along they would do, then LAX-PVG has got to be on that list, esp. since both AA and UA serve it.

the fact that AA is the weakest carrier in Asia and from an alliance perspective in China and will offer the most inferior product with their 10 abreast coach product makes it that much easier for DL to help squash AA's plans to build LAX and the west coast to Asia. AA might put their 787s on the route but that just pushes their 777s onto other routes to Europe/Latin America where the economics of the 777 are even less favorable than lighter aircraft such as the 330s and 767s.

meto is absolutely right that the problem with adding a west coast 777 pilot base is because marketing will continue to look to use the most suitable aircraft for a route regardless of where the pilots are based - and then tell flight ops to figure out how to make marketing's plans work.

there is a high likelihood that there might not even be more 777 time from LAX if the 777 that is currently flying to NRT is just swapped to fly to PVG instead. The new high gross weight 333s will very likely be used for at least some NRT flying and LAX and MSP make sense for the "first round"

the 772ER will increasingly become a higher cost option compared to the 330s and 359s and thus will likely be used on routes where revenues are the strongest.

 

[700UW]

They dont have a maintenance Base in Asia.
 
They have use of a hangar, there is no heavy maintenance base unless you count the vendors that overhaul DL airplanes in Asia.
 
Clueless once again.

 

[topDawg]

Yes I am. But live on west coast and fly mostly Sydney

Ever go to DXB? Random subject change but I am curious how the LR preforms on that route. 
 

They dont have a maintenance Base in Asia.
 
They have use of a hangar, there is no heavy maintenance base unless you count the vendors that overhaul DL airplanes in Asia.
 
Clueless once again.

pretty much. 
 

dawg,
you STILL miss the point.

the 757s are not STRANDED in Asia. DL has a maintenance base there. You do remember how much you argued about the work that DL does there?

Yes and you clearly did not learn a single thing, shocker. 
 
Delta has a line hangar, NOT A MAINTENANCE BASE. Engine changes, APU changes, overnights and drop in work. Delta has two maintenance bases. MSP, which does 717, MD88, MD90 and A330(starting soon) C-checks. (and sounds like some drop in c checks on the 767 fleet) and ATL which does 737, 757, 767, 777 and A320 C-checks. That is it. 
 
The 757s have check work done in the US and China. I am not even sure Delta does the c checks on them in house. I think they are overhauled in SAT like the rest of the 757 fleet however. 
 

the 717s do not presently have maintenance support on the west coast and DL has given no indication of opening a 717 pilot base.

They don't right now, they will once they start flying out west. 
 
and really, for the most part, it will probably be a difference CBT as the west stations do have MD88/MD90 support.  
 

but if DL has truly committed to being in the top global routes - which I have said all along they would do, then LAX-PVG has got to be on that list, esp. since both AA and UA serve it.

I don't disagree with this. 
matter of fact this isn't just a Delta thing but a SkyTeam thing.....fact is SkyTeam can't be left out of these top market places. This is why an 100% sure Delta will also start LAX-PEK and probably LAX-HKG because those markets are simply to large for SkyTeam not to have flight in. LAX-ICN/TYO/SYD/CAN/TPE/LHR/CDG/AMS and PVG are now well covered, HKG/PEK/AKL and MEL are the biggest holes. 
 

there is a high likelihood that there might not even be more 777 time from LAX if the 777 that is currently flying to NRT is just swapped to fly to PVG instead. The new high gross weight 333s will very likely be used for at least some NRT flying and LAX and MSP make sense for the "first round"

Maybe, but like i said, as it sits now it would be stupid to pull the 777 from NRT. The schedule is set up perfectly for the 777 to bridge between NRT and SYD.  

 

[WorldTraveler]

now tell us how often those maintenance tasks are done on the Asia 757s at NRT that can't be done with the NRT maintenance operation.

no one said that DL has a maintenance base.

they did just move into a hangar where you repeatedly argue that it was more than just line maintenance.

You can't have it both ways.

If DL invested in a hangar to do more than line maintenance, then NRT does indeed have DL maintenance capabilities that are beyond what exists in nearly every other int'l city.

but you still can't argue the point that the 757 and 767 utilize a common cockpit rating.

the 717s WILL NOT BE STRANDED on the west coast because they will be flown by DTW pilots. You yourself have said as much. There will be bridges.

The 757 is not a stranded aircraft in Asia.

Without bridge flights, the 717 would be a stranded aircraft at LAX.

while you and your union propaganda minion try to argue the point about the 717 vs the 757 as stranded aircraft, would you like to acknowledge that I told you a long time that the 717 would be flying on the west coast and you denied it?

and specific to this discussion, I also have repeatedly said that DL would defend and grow its Asia presence from the west coast, which you not disputed but others sure have.

 

[700UW]

dawg,
you STILL miss the point.

the 757s are not STRANDED in Asia. DL has a maintenance base there. You do remember how much you argued about the work that DL does there?

 

now tell us how often those maintenance tasks are done on the Asia 757s at NRT that can't be done with the NRT maintenance operation.

no one said that DL has a maintenance base.

they did just move into a hangar where you repeatedly argue that it was more than just line maintenance.

You can't have it both ways.

If DL invested in a hangar to do more than line maintenance, then NRT does indeed have DL maintenance capabilities that are beyond what exists in nearly every other int'l city.

 

Get your lies straight.
 
A maintenance base is an overhaul facility, the use of a hangar for engine changes and such is not a maintenance base.
 
DL has the use of a LINE hangar at NRT, not a maintenance base nor an overhaul facility and the shops that go along with it.
 
Once again, you are clueless about maintenance and its operation.