DL's profit does not disappoint.

[topDawg]

DL cut its employee costs less than at other carriers.

 

horse sh*t. 
 
Base pay its possible, but overall not even friggin close. When you look at the outsourcing and benefit cuts at Delta they more than make up for the pay losses.
 
I damn sure know that Delta didn't keep all of its maintenance work in-house besides 777 overhauls, I don't believe that AA has an engine that they outsource.(we will see what happens with the V2500, GE90s when they need overhauls, for now I don't show AA having power-by-the-hour agreements ala DL on the GE90.)  Pretty sure Delta was the only airline to go to 4 weeks of vacation. I won't even talk about what Delta did to the ramp during BK. 
 
 
But your one of those tool bags that only care about pay. Pay don't mean crap if you don't have a job champ. For someone who doesn't work at Delta you should be able to understand just how much Delta's pay rates me to you right now. 
 

the whole point of BK is to reset costs and finances in order for the company to compete.

in less than a year, AA is no longer the lowest cost airline among the big 3 and has been passed by DL.

of course, AA is in the position of not being able to cut compensation so far below its peers at other airlines or face a rebellion among its workforce - that is a byproduct of AA filing for BK so far after the cycle of BK at other carriers

and AA still has yet to show the impact of greatly enhanced competition at its most profitable hubs - DFW due to the opening of DAL, Latin America (Azul is starting new flights from Campinas while WN and B6 both are growing FLL to Latin America), and DCA.

And DL/VS continue to expand its presence at LHR - one of AA's long-term historic profit centers.

and instead of doing this from the lowest cost structure in the industry, AA will do so from a cost structure that is actually mid-range right now between DL's and UA's (the highest in the industry).

BK has done nothing to change the long-time reality in the industry AA and UA are significantly higher cost airlines that the LFCs and DL has done a far better job of competing against the LCCs and ULCCs because DL is doing so from a lower cost structure.

all of the wage increases that AA is giving out will make it even harder for AA to compete and make the ability of AA's employees to hold onto high compensation much more difficult.

All of that post and you said a ton of nothing. Again, for the APFA to have base pay that is the same as Delta's less than being 6 months from the 1113 process is a hell of a deal from the APFA. It took Delta FAs 8 years to get here, it took the APFA 6 months. 
 
Call that losing if you wanna I say its a win. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, you can't separate the whole of DL from your own world.

there are abundant SEC and DOT statistics that show how many positions were cut at each airline as well as total compensation.

as a company, DL cut less of its workforce and made smaller cuts to pay of the 4 airlines that went thru BK.

AA and CO did indeed cut less but CO had 2 previous BKs that resulted in lower employee costs than at other legacy airlines.

AA went back for a 2nd round of cost cuts in BK after their 2003 cuts outside of BK.

AA employees regained their pay but ended up being higher paid which is precisely why AA went back for another round in BK.

And AA employees can savor their pay raises all they want right now but AA cannot generate the revenue necessary to keep the number of people they have on the payroll gaining the pay raises that AA is handing out while revenue is falling as much as it is for AA.

Again, in AA's largest global region, Latin America, AA's RASM went down 11.7%. that is simply unprecedented.

Even before that, AA lost its position as the lowest CASM legacy carrier despite coming right out of BK.

AA is setting itself up for the very same cycle of giving pay raises in strong times while having to take it back thru BK or "gun at the head" concessions such as in 2003.

DL and WN have business models that allow the company to adapt to the changing realities of the business and make profit sharing a component of compensation.

DL's FAs right now will pull down far more in compensation because of profit sharing which AA can't match in a contract and the events in Latin America show why.

AA hasn't built an airline from a revenue standpoint that is capable of withstanding the cyclicality of the industry and they can't make multi-year commitments on expenses either.

DL FAs are and will make more than their peers at AA.

 

[jcw]

Actually just about everyone thinks you can't separate fantasy from reality

Case in point do you see how long your posts are?

Tell us again - why did you get kicked off airliners.net?

 

[700UW]

Leadership. 7.5

 

[WorldTraveler]

Actually just about everyone thinks you can't separate fantasy from reality

Case in point do you see how long your posts are?

Tell us again - why did you get kicked off airliners.net?

because there are a whole lot of AA people who can't stand reality.

it was true then and is true now.

I said AA would dramatically shrink in NYC. that has happened.

AA and US are both smaller in NYC than they were at the time of the merger.

AA filed for BK just as I said.

AA might get there eventually but they have yet to demonstrate that they have fundamentally changed the company is run.

UA is making far more progress in addressing what fundamentally has caused the company to underperform.

DL has demonstrated levels of profitability that are far beyond what legacy carriers have done before, also as I predicted on a.net

 

[jcw]

Wait you got kicked off because AA people can't stand reality

I think it's the other way around

The reality is both AA and AS outperformed DL

I know that is hard for you to handle on fantasy island

Let's all start taking bets on how long the next post will be

Maybe between tears we will get the list

 

[WorldTraveler]

sorry, but you're on the wrong board if you think that anyone gets kicked off this board because of their dissenting opinions.

this board EXISTS because of diverse and contrasting opinions. and they embrace it.

If you want a censored internet experience, a.net is the right place for you.

I know full well what AA, AS, and DL and the rest of the industry have done.

you might be in tears, but I certainly am not.

 

[jcw]

sorry, but you're on the wrong board if you think that anyone gets kicked off this board because of their dissenting opinions.

this board EXISTS because of diverse and contrasting opinions. and they embrace it.

If you want a censored internet experience, a.net is the right place for you.

I know full well what AA, AS, and DL and the rest of the industry have done.

you might be in tears, but I certainly am not.

 
 
Oh now I see - so you are now in denial about being kicked off the other board because people couldn't handle AA criticism - if you read that board hardly any AA threads
 
Now now the double standard kicks in - as long as everyone agrees with your position and 100% of your positions - then its an open board - however when proven wrong time and time again - you attack
 
Where did you learn that in preacher school?

 

[WorldTraveler]

why don't you forget about the other board and focus on the fact that airline forums is a site where dissenting opinions are part of the way this board works.

you are free to post whatever opinion you want here.

if you base it on facts, then you might win.

if not, you will likely lose.

that is the position where you are in right now.

you can't counter actual facts that I bring.

step back and take a break.

you are too personally involved.

separate your emotions from the facts.

in this case, DL's gross profit was the highest in the US industry.

 

[jcw]

let me translate again for everyone what WT is trying to tell us
 
I'm so personally involved I can't separate myself from DL so I will accuse others of being personally engaged
 
As you can see I'm unable to produce one thing that DL needs to improve on - however I will keep going to all the boards to post why DL rules the world and is better than AS, WN, JB, AA, etc
 
and I always love when I can tell some one "to step back and take a break"  as the double standard keeps ruling my world - it's so rich of me - as I'm on everyone's posts immediately to swat them down - however they should never expect to push back on me - I'm in my little world spinning a fantasy
 
remember the facts everyone else uses can't be true only the facts I use can be true - you see - I love making up fantasy statistics
 
I'm struggling with the fact that AS has a higher margin than DL and AA made more money - so my preaching teaches me to denagrate other people - the sermons must be a hoot on Sundays

 

[topDawg]

pay 
 

Bro, learn how to read for real. 
 
Again, for the last time, Pay is not the only benefit that matters. I know its your warped little head it does because its a talking point that is able to play to your Delta is better than American wet dream. For those of us that weren't sitting behind a computer screen many more cuts were taken than JUST pay. Vacation, SCOPE, work rules, pensions.........all of that matters just as much as pay. 
 
I know you'll quote this with some rand horse poop stat and i'll have to type all this out again, but it would be nice if you would learn that pay isn't everything to everyone..
 
 
and pay doesn't mean s**t to any of the people who watched their job go to DGS or over seas. I know a few DFW guys who would probably kick you right in the balls if you told them how well off they are like you do the rest of us. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I do understand your point, dawg.

but your peers simply don't see the threats you do, mostly because you repeatedly harp on airframe overhaul upgrades and outsourced engines while failing to acknowledge that DL insources far more engine overhauls than it outsources.

DL does not try to do everything in maintenance. what it does, it does not only for itself but also sells those services to other companies.

the net of DL's insourcing and outsourcing and maintenance results in a higher percentage of work done on DL's own fleet than at any other carrier on the basis of dollar value.

as for QOL issues, you simply have to convince your peers that they need protections more than higher pay levels. they simply do not see the priorities you do - which probably means they don't find the work rules as onerous as you see them.

 

[jcw]

I do understand your point, dawg.but your peers simply don't see the threats you do, mostly because you repeatedly harp on airframe overhaul upgrades and outsourced engines while failing to acknowledge that DL insources far more engine overhauls than it outsources.DL does not try to do everything in maintenance. what it does, it does not only for itself but also sells those services to other companies.the net of DL's insourcing and outsourcing and maintenance results in a higher percentage of work done on DL's own fleet than at any other carrier on the basis of dollar value.as for QOL issues, you simply have to convince your peers that they need protections more than higher pay levels. they simply do not see the priorities you do - which probably means they don't find the work rules as onerous as you see them.

Let me translate

See you don't understand the AA employees are dumb and don't know how to negotiate a pay package - where as the smart ones at DL just wIt to see what happens to them at the will of management - we wait with baited breath for the profit sharing check

In case you did not know 99% of all US companies pay profit sharing in my fantasy world

 

[topDawg]

I do understand your point, dawg.

no clearly you don't. Your wall of crap that posted after you said this clearly shows you aint gettin it. You want to show the world that your understand, simply say that pay and profit sharing isn't all the makes up QOL. If you can post that then I will be happy to compare BKs to BKs. 
 
Because if you look, outside of pay, AMR did much better than Delta. If you look outside of pay United did better than Delta. (and FWIW their contract with pay after BK was better, only after the last pay raise did Delta make more than UAL (with those evil union dues) and they have 7 weeks (compared to FOUR for Delta in BK) of vacation. 
 
Your problem is you only understand what you want to. It has no meaning to you if I make 40 an hour or 2, as long as your can find SOMETHING, ANYTHING to make it seem like Delta has a bigger d**k than American, nothing really matters. 
 
As i said, if you got it, you wouldn't post the way your do. I would love to have you in a room with the DFW/TPA guys and you tell them, that while they were, laid off, had to move, lost there families and committed suicide....just how great they had it during BK. I don't think you would last a minute with your tone champ..... 
 
 

but your peers simply don't see the threats you do,

Who said anything about that? We are talking about the past, not the future. Quot trying to run away from the subject. 
 

mostly because you repeatedly harp on airframe overhaul upgrades and outsourced engines while failing to acknowledge that DL insources far more engine overhauls than it outsources.

whoooooaaaaa killer. Please, I would love to know 1) how many overhauls on Delta engines Delta does a year. 2) how many 3rd party overhauls Delta does for OALs and 3) how many Delta engines get sent to vendors. 
 
you can use 2012 or 2013 but me thinks your talking out of your but and don't have the data. 
 
 
but if you do, then please tell us how many jobs the insourced engines produce......and how many the engines sent out + the airframe overhauls/mod work and all other airframe work sent to vendors would produce. 

 

DL does not try to do everything in maintenance. what it does, it does not only for itself but also sells those services to other companies.

blah blah quit trying to subject change
 
Don't care. Quit with the DL PR. 

 

the net of DL's insourcing and outsourcing and maintenance results in a higher percentage of work done on DL's own fleet than at any other carrier on the basis of dollar value.

no one cares. World doesn't work that way, never has never will. Don't care about % spent. lets compare jobs to jobs please. (you can't, cause you don't have the smallest idea how many jobs say the PSV-14s on the 737s would bring in. Thats what happens when you try to act like you know all from the outside) 

 

as for QOL issues, you simply have to convince your peers that they need protections more than higher pay levels. they simply do not see the priorities you do - which probably means they don't find the work rules as onerous as you see them.

Once again, your trying to subject change cause you know your wrong. I'm not talking about now, we are talking BK to BK. 
 

 

[topDawg]

Let me translate

See you don't understand the AA employees are dumb and don't know how to negotiate a pay package - where as the smart ones at DL just wIt to see what happens to them at the will of management - we wait with baited breath for the profit sharing check

In case you did not know 99% of all US companies pay profit sharing in my fantasy world

nah its more like 
 
"subject change.......talking out of my butt.....subject change......unions suck........don't like it leave......Delta wins"