DL's profit does not disappoint.

[WorldTraveler]

yes, jcw, we noticed that you feel a need to have the last word.

and, Kev, I have made it clear that I will defer to the opinions of others - but I have also repeatedly reminded you that, if your opinions were really representative of DL employees as a whole, you would have a union.

I have absolutely no problem if you or anyone else is right... but plz don't reduce me to pushing my opinions as the only valid ones without considering the same thing of yourself.

And, when I have repeatedly spoken the most about economic and market issues which are easily verifiable, it isn't really an opinion at all when I make a prognostication about what will happen. It either did happen and I can show it or I was wrong and you can.

On the areas that are less based on fact, particularly about representation issues, my opinions are actually based a great deal on facts - such as that if your opinions were validly representative of your peers, I would easily give you the biggest high five for your success.

 

[Kev3188]

It's always someone else, isn't it?

Nice to know some things never change...

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, Kevin, it is no one's fault but your peers who don't agree with you regarding a need for a union.

My only part is in having told you six years ago what would take place.

instead of trying to lay the blame at my feet, do you think you could find it your heart to admit that I just might have been right?

 

[jcw]

Translation

You can have an opinion as long as it's my opinion

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, that would be your distorted and inaccurate translation.

in the case of this topic, there are clear facts that explain why DL had a higher gross profit but a lower net profit.

you have chosen to focus solely on net profits.

doesn't mean you are right or wrong. but it is but one measure that doesn't reflect the true or sole condition of a company.

and more significantly, I don't think AA's profits at those levels will be sustainable unless the pay of their employees fails to grow or they lay off a lot of people. AA's costs are growing rapidly while their revenue performance is the most tepid among the big 4 - and most of the industry.

 

[Kev3188]

Translation

You can have an opinion as long as it's my opinion

Indeed.

 

[WorldTraveler]

easier to join the pile on than to admit someone knew and still knows the pulse of Delta better than you? Or even just quit arguing a point which your peera wont allow you to win?

 

[topDawg]

whether you want to hear it or not, any company that does not meet industry standards for productivity is overstaffed. You can argue the point all you want but in total AA has far more employees doing the same function as at other airlines but producing less revenue and ASMs (the measure of production in the airline industry)

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Stop. Just stop. 
 
Please, if your so sure of that give us a full list of jobs AA outsources vs DL and UA. Also for everyone one of those jobs please give us the cost differences for AA doing them out of house vs DL and UA doing them in house.
 
 
AGAIN, I'll try to type slow for you, if you do more work in house then you will have higher employee numbers. Thats business 101.AA/US is also 
Another factor your missing (some how) is AA has almost 300 more airplanes compared to Delta. Simple math and logic says AA is going to have more employees when they have more planes. I believe AA has right around 20,000 more people then Delta. My math says Delta has more people. 
  

it is only your problem that you can't understand or accept the way

you still aren't man enough to answer what I am saying to you. I do accept that. 
 

the work which DL does for umpteen other companies isn't YOUR work either but they pay some of your colleagues to do that work - even if you are left out.

more like they pay for DGS to do the work for them. (and you don't know where I work, or if i have anything to do with MRO work or not) 
 
 

let's be very clear that your axe to grind is that DL doesn't do everything you want them to do which includes airframe overhauls - so instead you have turned this forum into your personal complaint forum.

And you have turned it into your person Delta d**k sucking forum. Chill out glass house. (and 9 times out of 10 I complain because you post something wrong and I have to correct you. Its not my fault you know very little about Delta....)  
 
 

your peers don't agree with you. it's rather simple.

you ask everyone one of them? 
 

you are free to have an opinion but at the end of the day - and every time you get a paycheck - your peers make it clear they don't agree with the way that you see the world.

they do? you ask all of them? 

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA has 15K more employees than DL and 10K to produce nearly identical amounts of revenue and seat miles.

see section 12

http://marketrealist.com/2014/10/why-investors-should-track-labor-cost-in-the-airline-industry/

the difference between what AA outsources and DL simply does not amount to 15K employees which is an amount equivalent to the number of AA's maintenance personnel.

I don't have to interview your coworkers. Their collective opinion is apparent by their votes or more precisely lack thereof.

 

[topDawg]

AA has 15K more employees than DL and 10K to produce nearly identical amounts of revenue and seat miles.

see section 12

http://marketrealist.com/2014/10/why-investors-should-track-labor-cost-in-the-airline-industry/

the difference between what AA outsources and DL simply does not amount to 15K employees which is an amount equivalent to the number of AA's maintenance personnel.

I don't have to interview your coworkers. Their collective opinion is apparent by their votes or more precisely lack thereof.

prove that please? give us a list of who does what. Everything from MZ and the Ramp the the people at the WHQ. 
 
I can tell you that JUST the airframe overhaul work would produce a few thousands of employees for Delta. (probably in the 3-4K range)
Also AA has a larger line MX network than Delta that would probably produce a large amount of employees too. Add in the engines, gear, components and APUs Delta sends out I bet on the MX side alone your talking about 4-6K people.   
 
 
Oh still not man enough to admit that Delta's pay scales does nothing for the exDelta employees in Dallas and Tampa......

 

[WorldTraveler]

The difference between DL and AA's maintenance operation on a combined basis is about 5000 people.

There is an overall difference between DL and AA's overall employee of 15K people which is the size of current AA's maintenance operation.

You simply are unable to see anything beyond your own perspective - or your own dept.

DL could most certainly increase its payroll if it outsourced at the same level... but you also need to deduct the number of employees DL uses for insourcing.

AA is overstaffed whether you want to believe it or not.

your look at any number of financial statements would show it.

 

[topDawg]

The difference between DL and AA's maintenance operation on a combined basis is about 5000 people.

There is an overall difference between DL and AA's overall employee of 15K people which is the size of current AA's maintenance operation.

You simply are unable to see anything beyond your own perspective - or your own dept.

DL could most certainly increase its payroll if it outsourced at the same level... but you also need to deduct the number of employees DL uses for insourcing.

AA is overstaffed whether you want to believe it or not.

your look at any number of financial statements would show it.

And like I said, if you KNOW they are overstaffed then you should simply be able to give us a company wide comparison of AA and DL on what they outsource. 
 
Either AA is sitting on a bunch of extra employees or they are doing more work in-house. If they are doing more work in-house you are now saying they are doing it at a loss compared to Delta and its vendors. So please prove that. 
 
And yes, I am talking about MX here because we are talking about 4-6K extra people Delta could have if they did more work in-house. If that is in one dept. then it isn't hard to figure out that AA is simply just doing more work in-house than DL. Unless you can prove that it would be better for AA to outsource the work then they are not overstaffed. 
 
Again, just cause Delta has 80K employees doesn't mean AA should have 80K employees. Anyone with a little bit of economic and business knowledge can admit that some companies want to do more work in-house because they don't see the benefit of sending the work off.  Just cause Delta does something doesn't mean AA must do so. Pretty sure they are posting around the same profits as Delta.......thats all the matters. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are the one that should be able to tell us what 15K extra people do at AA compared to DL or 10K compared to UA.

great on the 4-6K people who could be doing DL's maintenance work.

now tell us why AA has 9-11K more people above that level on their overall payroll.

anyone who has even the slightest little bit of business knowledge should be able to figure out that if your competitor can do X amount of work and you have to have X*20% in order to accomplish the same function, you are overstaffed.

 

[topDawg]

you are the one that should be able to tell us what 15K extra people do at AA compared to DL or 10K compared to UA.

great on the 4-6K people who could be doing DL's maintenance work.

now tell us why AA has 9-11K more people above that level on their overall payroll.

anyone who has even the slightest little bit of business knowledge should be able to figure out that if your competitor can do X amount of work and you have to have X*20% in order to accomplish the same function, you are overstaffed.

Ah so in other words, "I'm talking out of my ass so I will try and throw it back on you" 
 
nope I don't need to produce anything. I never said AA is overstaffed, understaffed or correctly staffed. I don't know and don't pretend to like you do. 
 
So again, If AA is overstaffed please gives us the comparison. If you can't then it proves (if you can man up and say it or not) that you are talking but don't know what your talking about. 

 

[robbedagain]

I think it would be a lit too hard to say if AA is overly staffed as the meshing of US and AA continues for the next 12 to 18 or so months   but given that the world's largest airline with around 200 or more planes than DL  the numbers probably wont be as bad as the dl preacher claims it is