WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
IOW Kev. Do not set your sights too high all at once. Once you learn to crawl, then you can work on speech. Maybe a GED, then some community college work. Keep your spirits up Kev, for you may aspire to be as good as those who know what is best for you.
We know you can do it. We are all rooting for you!
Geez.
congratulations.
In your exuberance to slam me, you also slammed Kev...
No,Ha!
I'm really lookin' forward to gettin' all learned up.
Awesome...
No he didn't.
What he did do is accurately note (and satirize) the overarching theme of condescension in your writings.
This thread is not about me. It is NOT okay that you continue to make it so. You can make a point in more general terms and still cover the same ground.
Anyway...
Back to the original topic:
It appears that DL employees have lost (or will lose) more handling work in MEM. They had taken over much of this years ago, when it was proven that Airlink employees at the time couldn't handle it.
So either the odds of furloughs have increased even more, or DL will keep everyone in the name of labor peace, and absorb the loss of productivity per worker while adding another cost center to the station. Lose lose all around.
No,
Kev, it is about you...
and, Q, you still haven't told us why you left the airline industry.....
funny, I dont' think it was THAT long ago that I read a post from you saying that this forum discusses labor issues because that is what matters to people.Actually, the title of the thread is "More MEM cuts."
Yes, I know he has... and that's why the cries that he or 700 want to make about me not having a dog in the fight are all the more invalid because they both left the industry - as did I. I don't paint any picture of DL being a great place to stick around and settle in for the next 15-20 years. I do paint the picture of DL as a company that has adapted to the realities of the changing marketplace and has in the process protected the jobs of its existing full-time employees better than any other network carrier and has provided more options to voluntarily leave.Sure he has. Many times, as a matter of fact...
This thread is not about me.
No,
Kev, it is about you
Actually, the title of the thread is "More MEM cuts."
If the topic was more MEM cuts, then we wouldn't have had to read about your expectations that DL should be lifting the middle class.
If you want to talk about labor, then I'll talk about labor - and I'll trot out all of the information that paints the picture that I see and you can do the same. What you cannot do is pretend the facts that I present are not the truth.
You may not like the story they tell and they may not encompass all of the details that you see but they do represent the big picture.
Yes, I know he has...
Congrats on your 16 years, IIRC, and BTW. Not sure if you have week 4 of vacation now - forget when that happens -
But don't continue to expect DL to help you achieve your vision of a growing middle class. They run a business, not create social experiments.
And those like 700 and Q who no longer have any skin in the game should not be sitting on the sideline encourageing you to pursue false expectations about achieving what you want, esp. since they do so using the failed notion that unions can help - when they have clearly become completely ineffective.
Oh, and hope that doesn't sound too condescending. The brutal truth sometimes comes across that way.
Of course they don't. Why do you think I said they'd pay any price to maintain control?
They got a way with *plenty*. Was it "appropriate" in the eyes of the (labor) law? Apparently. Was it ethical? NFW.
I dunno, I'd like to think the rank and file is very much aware of the fiduciary duty companies have when it comes to disseminating information. But I also think they're aware that Wall St. generally applauds labor peace-whether thats obtained ethically or whether dissent is smothered- and therefore lets a lot of that sort of thing slide.
As for unions, they are accountable. I know you laugh when 700 says this, but it's true- especially when it comes to reporting of finances. I would venture to say that an LM2 is subject to as much scrutiny by the DOL as a 10K filing is by the SEC. I used to help compile the reports for my local lodge. Everything- and I mean everything- has to be accounted for & reported. We also covered all financial details at every meeting, and even the smallest of expenditures had to be voted on/approved. The last local I was in before losing representation took it almost to the point of paranoia. FWIW, I think that's just fine. The books should be open to any stakeholder that's interested.
Well yeah; why do you think I constantly agitate for bottom up organizing/engagement, and a total revamp of how things work? Lol.
On these sorts of things, we may have different ideas of how to get there, but Bob & I are of the same mind (at least I think so, based on what he writes on here).
Labor unions are under more scrutiny than companies ever are.
The LMDRA a union has to report every single penny spent and it available for public records, a company doesnt.
Perfect example back in the late 1990s US had a confidential settlement with Boeing over a canceled aircraft order, yet you couldnt find the information on the 10k anywhere.
A union has to account and make public every penny spent.
josh its not about obtaining hardship on the junior employee at one station.... if your station is closing and there places where you can hold then go to it but your seniority is not the one that is going to cause hardship its the company for closing that station my 1st station closed in 05 bec the company failed us i went to anthr station where im at now and my seniority has not caused hardship among the other junior people in front of me
If you expect the labor movement to achieve what you want, then focus your attenion on fixing the labor movement.
Well yeah; why do you think I constantly agitate for bottom up organizing/engagement, and a total revamp of how things work? Lol.
On these sorts of things, we may have different ideas of how to get there, but Bob & I are of the same mind (at least I think so, based on what he writes on here).
I never said I had an expectation of any company doing so. In fact, the whole thrust of my posts is that since that won't happen, then it's up to labor to make it happen.
The current "reality" in the American workplace may favor the corporatocracy you're so enamored with. That doesn't mean it can't be changed. The difference between you & I is that you're content to let the status quo continue, and have rationalized your compliance with long winded dissertations of why people should give up/give in.
I'm betting the other way.
However, I've heard unions were aggressive, harassing, intimidating, followed workers around the parking lots to their car, showed up unannounced at their home. It's a two way street, the unions need to respect peoples decisions and privacy too.
Of course we care about having labor peace. That's why its incredibly damaging and harmful when unions go to great lengths to publicize strike votes and pickets. Much of the traveling public is unversed on the workings of the RLA and if they read a news article saying saying a particular work group had a strike vote or picket, they are likely to believe a strike is ongoing or imminent when in reality a strike vote is generally only symbolic and usually doesn't result in a strike.
It's different standards of reporting.
LM-2s can be audited but the auditing and reporting standards are incredibly different and less comprehensive than that of a publicly traded company. I'm in no way saying 10-K, 10-Qs and other publicly available reports give a complete and accurate picture of the financial condition of a company but there are all kinds of ways a union can manipulate reports to represent something different. Many unions have considerable investments in bonds for union projects. There are all kinds of ways to amortize the discount or premium to understate the true value of these investments to paint a different picture. As another example, public companies have greater scrutiny in the area of executive compensation, the information is more detailed and comprehensive. Yes unions do have to make certain things available but as you said, the reports are as comprehensive as you want to make them. I applaud you and your local for being thorough and maintaining accountability of the membership funds but not all unions do the same.
I too wonder what the impact of a general strike in this country would be at this time. Not that I would support such action or believe one is imminent I wonder what the intermediate to long range reception of the American public would be. Sure people would be inconvenienced in the near term but I wonder if people would have a different outlook on organized labor aside from the perception that union members have extravagant benefits and are 'put up on a pedestal' above the rest of American workers.
Kev,
if you recognize that the labor movement must step forward to solve the problems of securing the future of the middle class etc and that no company is/can do it, then why are you surprised about stuff like whether you can see the reduction in the number of FT jobs on the ramp at DL?
If your expectation is that a general strike is necessary to validate the worth of labor...
Despite your believe in the value of the labor movement to secure the future of the American worker and stop the tide of pay regression and career job losses in the airline industry, there is ample evidence to show that the labor movement has been almost entirely unsuccessful since deregulation in accomplishing that goal.
Further, your largely non-union employer has done a better job of securing the jobs of its existing full-time workers, minimizing pay cuts, and providing a brighter future than have any other of its network carrier peers.
...and bring jobs back to DL employees that have been outsourced
BTW,
you didn't really delete the comment saying that you were pulling for me, did you?