US Pilot Labor Thread 7/20-7/26

[oldiebutgoody]

Where is the lottery ticket? Have you taken a look at your paystub recently? You guys don't have anything to offer that would even approach the "winning lottery ticket." Flip Flops to Europe for the lowest widebody pay in the industry? Getting stapled to the bottom of the FedEx list would constitute a winning lottery ticket in my book, but slotted in by relative seniority with a marginal airline operating under the worst contract in the bizz is definitely NOT a winning lottery ticket. You are aware that SWA FO's make more than top of scale US Airways Narrowbody captains? Anyone not in the top 517 would be better off quitting and going to Fedex/Ups. Lottery ticket....that's funny. Not a single pilot would have been bumped out of his seat and you cry travesty. as USEast would say .....sigh .....

I guess you should email this to Scott Kirby, since HE'S the one that called the Nic award a "lottery ticket".

I like my job. I EVEN like this company. If YOU don't, then YOU should leave.

All anyone can ask is the be treated FAIRLY, a concept that YOU apparently don't understand.

 

[nostradamus]

Where is the lottery ticket? Have you taken a look at your paystub recently? You guys don't have anything to offer that would even approach the "winning lottery ticket." Flip Flops to Europe for the lowest widebody pay in the industry? Getting stapled to the bottom of the FedEx list would constitute a winning lottery ticket in my book, but slotted in by relative seniority with a marginal airline operating under the worst contract in the bizz is definitely NOT a winning lottery ticket. You are aware that SWA FO's make more than top of scale US Airways Narrowbody captains? Anyone not in the top 517 would be better off quitting and going to Fedex/Ups. Lottery ticket....that's funny. Not a single pilot would have been bumped out of his seat and you cry travesty. as USEast would say .....sigh .....

This disparities you point out are a work in progress at this very moment. Your advice you gave regarding our leadership last year shows you understood the need for change. 200 dissenting pilots in the USAPA vote, voted alpa.

Barberpole
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Posted on: May 23 2007, 09:56 AM
Posts: 60
Joined: 10-May 07
Member No.: 11,365


"The pilot neutrals maintained that he did an excellent job with a minor dissenting view concerning only a couple hundred active Us Airways fo's.

It's over guys. The mob mentality will just make things worse. You need new leadership as the current gang has let you down."

 

[N965VJ]

Just testing......alllriiight!

Incoming n00b FAIL?

 

[Barberpole]

This disparities you point out are a work in progress at this very moment. Your advice you gave regarding our leadership last year shows you understood the need for change. 200 dissenting pilots in the USAPA vote, voted alpa.

Barberpole
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Posted on: May 23 2007, 09:56 AM
Posts: 60
Joined: 10-May 07
Member No.: 11,365


"The pilot neutrals maintained that he did an excellent job with a minor dissenting view concerning only a couple hundred active Us Airways fo's.

It's over guys. The mob mentality will just make things worse. You need new leadership as the current gang has let you down."

Not sure i follow you there Nostradamus. I was quoting your pilot neutral on the arbitration hearings who stated that Nic did an excellent job. He only had a minor dissenting viewpoint over the placement of your junior ACTIVE pilots. When I stated your leadership needed to be replaced I meant you should have elected new reps. NOT that you should have voted out Alpa and set us all back years in terms of a new contract. Particularly when you sacrificed contractual gains over this hail mary attempt to re-do a binding award.

Which disparities are going to be rectified? Are you implying that USAPA will bring parity with SWA? Fedex? Delta? I'm highly skeptical...

 

[Barberpole]

.

All anyone can ask is the be treated FAIRLY, a concept that YOU apparently don't understand.

Well Oldiexxx the award was crafted by one of the preeminent mediators in the country, and was in fact selected by your merger committee. The two pilot neutrals, including your neutral, claimed that the award was fair and Nic did an excellent job. It met all the pre-arbitration conditions set by the company. It was generally well recieved within the industry. All the senior AWA CA's moved back quite a bit in bidding power due to the placement of 500+AAA pilots on top of the list. The only people who thought it was grossly unfair appear to be AAA pilots. Just because you guys threw the temper tantrum of the century doesn't make your position correct.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Not sure i follow you there Nostradamus. I was quoting your pilot neutral on the arbitration hearings who stated that Nic did an excellent job. He only had a minor dissenting viewpoint over the placement of your junior ACTIVE pilots. When I stated your leadership needed to be replaced I meant you should have elected new reps. NOT that you should have voted out Alpa and set us all back years in terms of a new contract. Particularly when you sacrificed contractual gains over this hail mary attempt to re-do a binding award.

Which disparities are going to be rectified? Are you implying that USAPA will bring parity with SWA? Fedex? Delta? I'm highly skeptical...

What does it matter?

ALPA, Nicalou, their neutrals, and their bargaining position no longer matter. It is an entitlement profession. The company doesn't give annual reviews or pick the captains, neither does the union. Those who have been around longer go first and conditions and restriction are used to maintain the status quo and minimize the impacts of integration. Pretty simple in the non-ALPA world.

Snapshots, financial arguments, which airline was superior are all irrelevant. Pilots are heavy equipment operators, albeit a more expensive, complex bulldozer. Why give any credit other than the credit that is due, years as a bulldozer operator. You don't actually think the bulldozer operator would presume to take credit for balance sheet, or recent financial or management history of his employer, do you? He at least is smart enough to know the color of the collar on his shirt.

 

[Phoenix]

This disparities you point out are a work in progress at this very moment. Your advice you gave regarding our leadership last year shows you understood the need for change. 200 dissenting pilots in the USAPA vote, voted alpa.

Oh... :unsure: perhaps this explains that infamous and oft quoted claim before the election...

"You won't even get 200 cards (votes)!"

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Well Oldiexxx the award was crafted by one of the preeminent mediators in the country, and was in fact selected by your merger committee. The two pilot neutrals, including your neutral, claimed that the award was fair and Nic did an excellent job. It met all the pre-arbitration conditions set by the company. It was generally well recieved within the industry. All the senior AWA CA's moved back quite a bit in bidding power due to the placement of 500+AAA pilots on top of the list. The only people who thought it was grossly unfair appear to be AAA pilots. Just because you guys threw the temper tantrum of the century doesn't make your position correct.

Doesn't matter. It's DEAD. Get over it. It was an ALPA deal. 'nuff said. It was a flawed result of a flawed system.

I was an ALPA member for over 20 years. Paid my dues until the day they were gone. They never did ANYTHING for me, except spend all the cash I sent them.

Sounds like they sold out the west guys too. Those U-Turn letters are very informative.

 

[checksix]

Could we please not turn this into another USAPA web site. Do we have to look at every update and other junk from the USAPA site here? This board is suppose to be a discussion about pilot issues not a coffee shop wall for fliers.

Perhaps you missed it cleardirect; this thread deals with US Airways pilot labor issues. USAPA is our labor union, do you see the correlation? Second, not all pilots, (west pilots), receive updates. Therefore, I think it is highly appropriate for discussion purposes to post public USAPA updates.

I'd invite your participation in discussion of US Airways pilot labor issues, including those regarding our labor union and the direction its members have chosen. However, if you are not interested, may I suggest scrolling past the USAPA updates or avoiding the US Airways pilot labor thread altogether.

 

[Barberpole]

Doesn't matter. It's DEAD. Get over it. It was an ALPA deal. 'nuff said.

We'll see.....I disagree with your assessment. I was just commenting on your whining that it wasn't a 'fair' deal. It was fair to the rest of the aviation world and a highly respected arbitrator.

 

[sharktooth]

First my comment was directed to the moderator not you.

First, you are wrong.

The post was intended, by you, to be read by all. Had you wished a private conversation, you could have used the private message (PM) part of this forum but you chose not to, leaving a rational person the idea that you were open to comment.

Another in the long line of "ready, fire, aim" messages from inexperience.

 

[EastUS]

We'll see.....I disagree with your assessment. I was just commenting on your whining that it wasn't a 'fair' deal. It was fair to the rest of the aviation world .....

Wow!...Ummm..."the rest of the aviation world" ????...All of them out there? Criminy!!..all the people I've talked with must be lying!! Seems like appropriate timing for another "Sigh"

 

[AAA73Pilot]

It was fair to the rest of the aviation world and a highly respected arbitrator.

Not hardly. Everyone outside this company thats seen the "List" always ask what conditions and restrictions were placed in the written award. When told of only one, and that one has disappeared, they shake their heads in disbelief. So the rest of the "Aviation world" does not agree with you. A lot of people now understand this is but one issue that saw ALPA removed from the property. Followed by "I wish we could dump ALPA" statements. IMO ALPA is grudgingly supported at other carriers. Just let the right issue spring forth and more carriers will start a dercert campaign.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

We'll see.....I disagree with your assessment. I was just commenting on your whining that it wasn't a 'fair' deal. It was fair to the rest of the aviation world and a highly respected arbitrator.

Whining? Why would I be whining? Seems like that would be what we're witnessing from the west contingent, when they're not yelling at their CEO.

As far as respect for anyone goes, I certainly don't have any respect for his decisions. He was actually fired by the MLB and NHL as an arbitrator because of his poor decision making. I actually have more respect for the west sides' lawyer. He apparently was telling it the way it was, and then was either booted from or left the meeting at Wye River in frustration.

One day you'll understand how acting like a child gets you nowhere. Until then, try not to make too big a fool of yourself.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It was generally well recieved within the industry.

What does that mean? Who in the industry would even care how a bunch of pilots of one company had their seniority integration play out. And please, cite some some industry references that show that it was well received and why. I can quote Prater himself saying to a group of several hundred pilots in mid-May of 2007 that the Nicolau list was "flawed." That doesn't sound like "well received within the industry" to me.

All the senior AWA CA's moved back quite a bit in bidding power due to the placement of 500+AAA pilots on top of the list.

In bidding power for what? Transatlantic widebody flying which they never really had any claim or hope? They didn't move back an RCH for the bidding power of the positions they already held. And by the time Nic made his "award," over 150 of those 517 AAA pilots had already reached age-60 retirement and were gone from the list forever.

The only people who thought it was grossly unfair appear to be AAA pilots. Just because you guys threw the temper tantrum of the century doesn't make your position correct.

The fallout from the Nic award and the unceremonious dumping of ALPA from the property has had a large impact on other mergers going forward. Additionally, ALPA is already reconsidering the content of its merger policies. If the whole thing was so fair, why in the world would Delta and NWA be going to such great lengths to get themselves at least financially protected in the event that they too get screwed by the ALPA merger policy to which they are still bound. The protections that Delta management gave its pilots is unprecedented and would never had occurred absent Nicolau. And the NWA pilots are standing their ground now, too, to protect themselves from ALPA and its "fair" policies.