2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

I want to add that TA 1 in 8/07 had snap backs which would have taken place 1/12. Those included:
1. Sick leave accrual at 12 instead of 9 days per year and 100% pay on sick call.
2. Holiday pay as described in 99 agreement.
3. Shift differential as described in 99 agreement.
4. Scope was better because 49 flights were needed to insource instead of 98 now.

TA 2 did not have this and the Company refuses to even consider the above or any other issues at this time in section 6. Seriously DP, you need to quit getting updates from SJ and look at the BS going on and you will see that there is zero TRUST from the NC with regards to JCBA. We can't even get things offered in 2007 today which blows my mind.

Fair contract now, JCBA later!

P. Rez

It has to stay zero trust. These guys are terrible and they are negotiating as if they are still small little America West still.

 

[ograc]

I am all for station visits by the NC and AGCs fully familiar with the "what ifs" if the Fleet Service is released. Additionally, many questions need to be addressed if MTC. & Related is the bargaining group released. It needs to be clearly addressed what our contractual rights afford us in an effort to fully support the MTC. & Related group. I doubt the NMB will release both groups at the same time. With that being said... given the fact MTC. & Related have been past their ammendable date longer than Fleet, I would guess this group would be the first to be released. The front line of this battle could be with MTC. & Related and our role in supporting the MTC. & Related group. The Fleet Service group should be properly educated regarding this scenario additionally. I'm a little concerned there has been no mention of this. The NC and AGCs need to get to the stations. The membership is starving for information, insight and battle plans going forward. The battle could soon be upon us!

 

[charlie Brown]

There will be a Q & A page set up soon on the district site to hopefully answer many people's questions, and station visits will be coming to educate the membership. I think one of the committee guys will be starting a Facebook site dedicated to the issues about being released and all.

 

[roabilly]

I am all for station visits by the NC and AGCs fully familiar with the "what ifs" if the Fleet Service is released. Additionally, many questions need to be addressed if MTC. & Related is the bargaining group released. It needs to be clearly addressed what our contractual rights afford us in an effort to fully support the MTC. & Related group. I doubt the NMB will release both groups at the same time. With that being said... given the fact MTC. & Related have been past their ammendable date longer than Fleet, I would guess this group would be the first to be released. The front line of this battle could be with MTC. & Related and our role in supporting the MTC. & Related group. The Fleet Service group should be properly educated regarding this scenario additionally. I'm a little concerned there has been no mention of this. The NC and AGCs need to get to the stations. The membership is starving for information, insight and battle plans going forward. The battle could soon be upon us!

Excellent point Cargo,
 
MTC may very well be released while Fleet may not... or vice versa. It may be both groups are released (however it is unlikely)... or... both groups may be held in limbo as the NMB continues to drag their feet.
 
Everyone needs to understand that the union could educate on any and all of these scenarios but, in my opinion, they should wait to educate on the imminent scenario. Either way... a lot of educating will need to be done...
 
LOCK -N- LOAD!!

 

[ograc]

There will be a Q & A page set up soon on the district site to hopefully answer many people's questions, and station visits will be coming to educate the membership. I think one of the committee guys will be starting a Facebook site dedicated to the issues about being released and all.

Websites and facebook pale in comparison to station visits CB. Websites and facebook disengage the leadership from the membership. When preparing for battle the soldier needs to look into the COs' eyes and visa versa. Are we preparing for battle or surrender?

 

[ograc]

Excellent point Cargo,
 
MTC may very well be released while Fleet may not... or vice versa. It may be both groups are released (however it is unlikely)... or... both groups may be held in limbo as the NMB continues to drag their feet.
 
Everyone needs to understand that the union could educate on any and all of these scenarios but, in my opinion, they should wait to educate on the imminent scenario. Either way... a lot of educating will need to be done...
 
LOCK -N- LOAD!!

It doesn't hurt to start the education process early. Waiting to educate until the imminent scenario is upon us is poor planning IMO. You are correct a lot of educating needs to be done. Let's not cram the education process into a 30 day period. The IAM is simply not capable of doing this.

 

[700UW]

Cargo,

The language is in your CBA all ready, you don't have to cross a picket line nor perform struck work, the language is in the AFA CBA and it was arbitrated and won by the AFA.

 

[BLUTO]

LOCK N M EFFEN
LOAD DUDEZ!
CLT IZ REDY!

 

[Tim Nelson]

It doesn't hurt to start the education process early. Waiting to educate until the imminent scenario is upon us is poor planning IMO. You are correct a lot of educating needs to be done. Let's not cram the education process into a 30 day period. The IAM is simply not capable of doing this.

I agree that it won't hurt to start the process early.  I don't mind them having a FB site though as long as it doesn't take away from the official page.  I want official announcements and official stances, and official correspondence.  I've seen AGC"s post on FB Q and A's and which turned out to be highly inaccurate and perhaps intellectually dishonest.  I also want to start hearing from the TWU which has been quiet in all of this.  We need to know if the TWU will be forced to do our work.  In ORD, if 100% walk out on strike, it wouldn't do any good if AE comes over and does the work. What about the CWA,  what does their contract say? 
 
IMO, a strike by fleet service will be more successful than a MX strike.  The company would look terrible beating up on blue collar workers with no licenses who are only asking to be paid the same as sAA.  And then having MX support would make us all proud.  And the stews since they are AFLCIO.  IMO, a strike could be very successful for fleet service.  I would prefer us deciding 'when' to strike, sometime after the cooling off ends.  As opposed to striking when everyone believes you will strike.  Ograc, you might have remembered when Genoese did this at Pan Am.  Instead of striking when the company wanted the Pan Am IBT to strike, Genoese had them show up for work and kept the self help open indefinitely.  The end result was a contract terms that were so great that the other unions got pissed off.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Cargo, The language is in your CBA all ready, you don't have to cross a picket line nor perform struck work, the language is in the AFA CBA and it was arbitrated and won by the AFA.

What about the CWA/IBT?  or the TWU Dispatch contract?

 

[roabilly]

I agree that it won't hurt to start the process early.  I don't mind them having a FB site though as long as it doesn't take away from the official page.  I want official announcements and official stances, and official correspondence.  I've seen AGC"s post on FB Q and A's and which turned out to be highly inaccurate and perhaps intellectually dishonest.  I also want to start hearing from the TWU which has been quiet in all of this.  We need to know if the TWU will be forced to do our work.  In ORD, if 100% walk out on strike, it wouldn't do any good if AE comes over and does the work. What about the CWA,  what does their contract say? 
 
IMO, a strike by fleet service will be more successful than a MX strike.  The company would look terrible beating up on blue collar workers with no licenses who are only asking to be paid the same as sAA.  And then having MX support would make us all proud.  And the stews since they are AFLCIO.  IMO, a strike could be very successful for fleet service.  I would prefer us deciding 'when' to strike, sometime after the cooling off ends.  As opposed to striking when everyone believes you will strike.  Ograc, you might have remembered when Genoese did this at Pan Am.  Instead of striking when the company wanted the Pan Am IBT to strike, Genoese had them show up for work and kept the self help open indefinitely.  The end result was a contract terms that were so great that the other unions got pissed off

How about sporadic, intermittent, unannounced mini-strikes? CHAOS, like the F/A's made famous? 

 

[Tim Nelson]

How about sporadic, intermittent, unannounced mini-strikes? CHAOS, like the F/A's made famous? 

Once the cooling off period is over, any self help is permissible.  You could wildcat or sit down on one bank in a hub or all go out on strike, or do any sorta mix and matching.  Of course, if you don't strike then you will be working under an imposed contract.  The IBT at Pan Am pulled off a very successful strike of 4,000 ground workers with no help at all from any other group at an airline that was bankrupt.  I have the contract that was agreed to and it was really something, I also have the video tape entitled "Pan Am: Airline on a Collision Course" which documented the successful stance.  They actually never went on strike either.   If the NC needed the tape, I'd be sure to let them view it.  Damn thing is a VHS though.

 

[Tim Nelson]

A union can not strike or resort to any self help until after a cooling off period.   And a company can't unilaterally impose a contract until after a cooling off period.  The reference below is a case in which the union chose to just 'stay on the job' and the company chose to impose a contract.  Although the union kept its right to strike, it didn't.  Pan Am had replacement workers standing by but because of the RLA it could not replace the ground workers if they didn't strike.  I'm not advocating anything after a potential cooling off but I think all things, including a strike or settlement should be considered.  Kindly review the following article for reference.
 
Remember, this case resulted in a successful outcome but not without short term pain. The members worked under an imposed contract for several months but as one worker said, nobody wanted to but they had no choice because management just didn't listen.
 
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19880222&id=uW9OAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-foDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7066,796491
 
I have the contract and it actually included pay raises that pissed off the other unions on the property.  I'll scan some of the highlights in this classic fight.  In the case above, the workers actually came to work and did their jobs in a professional way and didn't even have a sitdown or anything.  But the fact that the investment world knew thousands could walk at any unpredictable time, was troublesome.  The fundamental problem for an airline is that they are highly leveraged on credit and without signed contracts, Mr Banker charges much higher interest.  Some banks may not even want to give credit to the company if MX and Fleet and Stews can coordinate a shutdown at any given day, month, or hour.

 

[ograc]

Cargo, The language is in your CBA all ready, you don't have to cross a picket line nor perform struck work, the language is in the AFA CBA and it was arbitrated and won by the AFA.

I'm aware of the language in the contract 700UW. Let me throw one example at you though concerning picket lines. What if you work in a station where MTC is subcontracted and there are no picket lines to honor or cross? This is an example of questions that need to be addressed and answered by authoritive representatives going forward. 700; I respect your insight, knowledge and past involvement but I cannot direct my members' actions based on what's posted on this thread. The NCs and the DL Leadership needs to get into the field and give authoritive answers to the many questions, concerning the potential strike process, to the members. Questions need answered. Concerns need to be addressed. Only then will the group truly be prepared for the battle that lies ahead. 

 

[ograc]

I agree that it won't hurt to start the process early.  I don't mind them having a FB site though as long as it doesn't take away from the official page.  I want official announcements and official stances, and official correspondence.  I've seen AGC"s post on FB Q and A's and which turned out to be highly inaccurate and perhaps intellectually dishonest.  I also want to start hearing from the TWU which has been quiet in all of this.  We need to know if the TWU will be forced to do our work.  In ORD, if 100% walk out on strike, it wouldn't do any good if AE comes over and does the work. What about the CWA,  what does their contract say? 
 
IMO, a strike by fleet service will be more successful than a MX strike.  The company would look terrible beating up on blue collar workers with no licenses who are only asking to be paid the same as sAA.  And then having MX support would make us all proud.  And the stews since they are AFLCIO.  IMO, a strike could be very successful for fleet service.  I would prefer us deciding 'when' to strike, sometime after the cooling off ends.  As opposed to striking when everyone believes you will strike.  Ograc, you might have remembered when Genoese did this at Pan Am.  Instead of striking when the company wanted the Pan Am IBT to strike, Genoese had them show up for work and kept the self help open indefinitely.  The end result was a contract terms that were so great that the other unions got pissed off.

Genoese was a master at negotiations. He used the leverage he had wisely. Pan Am and US Air Fleet were industry leading contracts at the time. Since decertification of the Teamsters at US it has been a continual downward spiral concerning contracts and working conditions for Fleet. Not to say the IAM is wholly responsible. There have been many contributing factors to where we find ourselves in 2014. One contributing and constant factor has been the lack of engagement and solidarity of the membership. The thought process of what's better for me; rather than the collective membership. Another contributing factor is leadership (both past and present) that has been able to rectify the forementioned within the membership.