2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

You know what AANOTOK I actually agree with you. I really do. BUT I also bet that you're one of those guys no matter how many times it's explained to you will not or cannot understand the concept of Bankruptcy? We're not some advanced European country here you know. One of those countries where if you mess with one Labor group you mess with them all. No are private union membership is down to a paltry and shameful 6%. Have you done a comparison of the Unionization rate in other countries. Did you happen to read what just happened in Tennessee with the UAW vote? Beaten down and lied to by Grover Norquist and the Republican legislature. Submit or we break your arm. 

No here in America we're just a pack of hungry vultures trying to rip up a carcuss with too little meat on it. Unions raiding other Unions all over the place. Members not giving a damn or going to any meetings or listening to their elected leaders. Leaders who really only care about getting a position by cheating or lieing their way into it and doing whatever they can to hold on because they like the cash grab. Greed, greed ,greed.

America used to be the leader for the Labor movement now other Countries are laughing at us. And it's all our own fault. We just kept getting more and more cozy and comfortable while the others kept and keep on taking more and more from us. And here we are. Just bitching, moaning and snipeing at each other.

Yep fun times.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey from Wikipedia. Check this out.
 
In the mid-1950s, 36% of the United States labor force was unionized. At America's union peak in the 1950s, union membership was lower in the United States than in most comparable countries. By 1989, that figure had dropped to about 16%, the lowest percentage of any developed democracy, except France. Union membership for other developed democracies, in 1990 were:[1]

• 95% in Sweden and Denmark.
• 85% in Finland
• Over 60% in Norway and Austria
• Over 60% in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom.
• Over 30% in West Germany and Italy.

In 1987, United States unionization was 37 points below the average of seventeen countries surveyed, down from 17 points below average in 1970.[1] Between 1970 and 1987, union membership declined in only three other countries: Austria, by 3%, Japan, by 7%, and the Netherlands, by 4%. In the United States, union membership had declined by 14%.[2]
In 2008, 12.4% of U.S. wage and salary workers were union members. 36.8% of public sector workers were union members, but only 7.6% of workers in private sector industries were.[3] The most unionized sectors of the economy have had the greatest decline in union membership. From 1953 to the late 1980s membership in construction fell from 84% to 22%, manufacturing from 42% to 25%, mining from 65% to 15%, and transportation from 80% to 37%.[

 

 

[P. REZ]

yeah, I had an outdated constitution. This was corrected a few pages back and the question became 'how much is in the strike fund'.  A newspaper article two weeks ago, quoting a source for Buffenbarger, said that it had $1 billion dollars in it.  The article was referenced. So, those doing the math suggested the strike fund would be about $900 a week.  After I asked Jay Cronk, he said that the fund has never been over $200 million and that he doubts it is over $100 million now.  The last reported funding was placed at $85 million in 2012.  Nonetheless, dispensation should be gained. This is potentially a big battle for the IAM and Labor.  The dispensation should be secured to bring up the strike payments.  I am very skeptical since the IAM141 produced an anti union agreement at HAL and UAL so imo they will endorse a TA that is unfair instead of pressing matters. Time will tell and we can't afford to speculate. We have to prepare and preparation should have started yesterday.  If they put out some information then it should have full disclosure, i.e., what 3 options we have after the cooling off, etc.

Tim,

We are pressing the issue and IMO, when the membership sees the last best offer from the Company, the strike vote will be a high percentage. I will reiterate that the Company needs to show goodwill to US fleet by giving us a fair contract now and we would then be happy to join our Brothers and Sisters at AA in joint talks.

DP took a base pay raise of $150,000 and just cashed in $13.4 million worth of stock and still has $47 million worth of stock. And now he wants to basically give us lost inflation raises for topped out employees and less for junior employees along with the promise (wink, wink) that you will get good stuff in joint talks. NO THANKS, I HAVE NO TRUST IN THAT PATH.

P. Rez

 

[AANOTOK]

Hey WeAAsles...I haven't even finished reading your comment and I am stopping to post. Do not assume anything about me. If you do not know me, do not judge me...PERIOD! I posted a simple fact and you assume something...now I will finish and respond if need be!

 

[AANOTOK]

The rest of your post and the follow up were a waste of time to be quite honest, WeAAsles.

 

[WeAAsles]

AANOTOK: If you are the exact opposite of all the things I just said then I'm very proud of you and you're a true brother. But the lurkers who come on here just to read and never say anything are the people who I'm really aiming at. They know who they are and they do nothing. They expect everyone else to pull up their pants and tie their shoes for them. Just like mommy did when she wiped their little noses. 

And the ones that keep proving time and time again that they have a personal agenda. They flip flop worse than Romney in a Pancake house. I got there number. I just wish everyone else did.

 

[WeAAsles]

But I am sorry to hear you say that you think the low Union membership rate in the US is a waste of your time? Let's hope it never get's down to ZERO or it just might not be a waste of your time anymore.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

We are pressing the issue and IMO, when the membership sees the last best offer from the Company, the strike vote will be a high percentage. I will reiterate that the Company needs to show goodwill to US fleet by giving us a fair contract now and we would then be happy to join our Brothers and Sisters at AA in joint talks.

DP took a base pay raise of $150,000 and just cashed in $13.4 million worth of stock and still has $47 million worth of stock. And now he wants to basically give us lost inflation raises for topped out employees and less for junior employees along with the promise (wink, wink) that you will get good stuff in joint talks. NO THANKS, I HAVE NO TRUST IN THAT PATH.

P. Rez

Did someone tell AH that, separate from the merger, fleet has not had a pay raise since 2012?   This management team is quite hilarious.  Stick to your guns Prez, you will get the support you need for a strong strike vote.  Presenting what AH thinks of fleet service should net an incredibly strong strike vote.

 

[ograc]

Tim,

We are pressing the issue and IMO, when the membership sees the last best offer from the Company, the strike vote will be a high percentage. I will reiterate that the Company needs to show goodwill to US fleet by giving us a fair contract now and we would then be happy to join our Brothers and Sisters at AA in joint talks.

DP took a base pay raise of $150,000 and just cashed in $13.4 million worth of stock and still has $47 million worth of stock. And now he wants to basically give us lost inflation raises for topped out employees and less for junior employees along with the promise (wink, wink) that you will get good stuff in joint talks. NO THANKS, I HAVE NO TRUST IN THAT PATH.

P. Rez

 NO TRUST in US. NO TRUST in the path they want to lead us on. 

 

[roabilly]

What I would like to know every time some bonehead likes to point out what the top pay rate at Delta is in comparison to us is what is the full value of their labor costs? Basically and very simply how many of those Delta people are getting that top rate over their union counterparts?

So many people focus too easily on just one aspect without seeing the total picture. I could probably win a bet that they only have half the amount of people making that top rate as a percentage in comparison to what you and I make. 

Well who know? They don't have a contract to compare that to.

You are correct “pay parity” can vary in cost to the Company depending on pay scales, and/or scope. Generally, parity refers only to hourly wage calculated from Fleet counterparts at several peer carriers. One of the more popular ideas in the past was” parity plus one”-- whereas we attempted to negotiate language that gives us an hourly wage from the average formula of the peer carriers, and then add 1% to that.
 
Unfortunately, this formula can be flawed... as hourly wage is only a portion of the total compensation package. For instance, the Company would jump at parity plus one if they could eliminate some scope, medical cost, or retirement contributions.
 
The key for US fleet is to fight for ALL of the items in the overall compensation package...
 
LOCK -N- LOAD

 

[roabilly]

Tim,

We are pressing the issue and IMO, when the membership sees the last best offer from the Company, the strike vote will be a high percentage. I will reiterate that the Company needs to show goodwill to US fleet by giving us a fair contract now and we would then be happy to join our Brothers and Sisters at AA in joint talks.

DP took a base pay raise of $150,000 and just cashed in $13.4 million worth of stock and still has $47 million worth of stock. And now he wants to basically give us lost inflation raises for topped out employees and less for junior employees along with the promise (wink, wink) that you will get good stuff in joint talks. NO THANKS, I HAVE NO TRUST IN THAT PATH.

P. Rez

GOOD IDEA!
 
When everyone sees this "last best offer"... they will need to understand it WILL become their contract, if they waffle on striking to defend their demands!

 

[Tim Nelson]

GOOD IDEA!
 
When everyone sees this "last best offer"... they will need to understand it WILL become their contract, if they waffle on striking to defend their demands!

I think the members really need to see what AH thinks of them.  I also hope that the TWU remains solid behind us.  Any waffling by the TWU and it could kill our talks.  I only say that because my guess is that the association really puts AH in a bind, so it stands to reason that AH may be ringing the phone off the hook trying to get the TWU to pull out.  However, every indication is that the TWU is solidly behind our contract talks and supports it.  
 
Also, it's that time of year again and there are about 10 stations at risk with no scope. If AH decides to reduce those stations then I think we just have to dig in even more.
 
Unified for Change: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Unified-for-Change/659976804041652
US AIRWAYS and American Fleet service facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/482361158503857/

 

[charlie Brown]

The membership will see the last offer from the company prior to any strike vote. However we haven't been released yet. Seeing the last offer comes only if and when released, prior to a strike vote.

 

[P. REZ]

I want to add that TA 1 in 8/07 had snap backs which would have taken place 1/12. Those included:
1. Sick leave accrual at 12 instead of 9 days per year and 100% pay on sick call.
2. Holiday pay as described in 99 agreement.
3. Shift differential as described in 99 agreement.
4. Scope was better because 49 flights were needed to insource instead of 98 now.

TA 2 did not have this and the Company refuses to even consider the above or any other issues at this time in section 6. Seriously DP, you need to quit getting updates from SJ and look at the BS going on and you will see that there is zero TRUST from the NC with regards to JCBA. We can't even get things offered in 2007 today which blows my mind.

Fair contract now, JCBA later!

P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Company is testing out the new loader in ATL and MIA at sAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kIBowKyA2M