2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

I thought your flight activity bar was 'time bombed' to raise in a couple years, thereby potentially losing more stations?

No. It was raised in the bankruptcy already.

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim have you ever read our contract? And this is not meant as knock on you but I have read yours and I'm not even running for anything. You argue with our guys over aspects of our contract and it just seems like you've never even looked at it?

If you want to win an election that potentially puts you in a position to negotiatate a JCBA, you may want to start doing your research now to be prepared? There are items in both contracts that we're going to want to hopefully combine.

 

[roabilly]

Tim have you ever read our contract? And this is not meant as knock on you but I have read yours and I'm not even running for anything. You argue with our guys over aspects of our contract and it just seems like you've never even looked at it?

If you want to win an election that potentially puts you in a position to negotiatate a JCBA, you may want to start doing your research now to be prepared? There are items in both contracts that we're going to want to hopefully combine.

He probably reads them, but he will only discuss, or make statements on HIS interpretation of the weak aspects. Generally, he will leave out the fact that BK proceedings influenced the language.
 
ALL of this is done to make the Union Leadership look bad, so he can lobby for a change of Leadership to benefit his own political agenda...
 
Been that way for decades!
 
LOCK –N- LOAD!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

"The airline contracts out its baggage handling at all airports except for those in the state of Alaska."

So unless you are one of those baggage handlers that works in Alaska I guess the "Profit sharing" really doesn't amount to much of anything.

The rampers there also do get an hourly rate much better then either of us but I think the prices on goods and services is also much higher than most of the rest of the US so those pay rates are negated by that.

I am an advocate for "COLA" depending on where you live and work but that never seems to gain traction in most CBA talks.

As we have said numerous times on this forum, the AS ramp contract sucks. Other ground workers have a better contract at AS. Of those, the profit sharing and other incentives were pretty damn good. Even better than Delta's 8.2% profit sharing checks which amounted to $4,000+.   The problem unions have is how are they going to talk to Delta workers when the union leaders had their fingers up their arses endorsing a United contract that promised unlimited part time, virtually no scope, little profit sharing, and no work rules?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim have you ever read our contract? And this is not meant as knock on you but I have read yours and I'm not even running for anything. You argue with our guys over aspects of our contract and it just seems like you've never even looked at it?

If you want to win an election that potentially puts you in a position to negotiatate a JCBA, you may want to start doing your research now to be prepared? There are items in both contracts that we're going to want to hopefully combine.

I have read it, but I could swear that there was a date at the back end that raises flight activity levels and could time bomb some stations. I'll read it again.  I really hope you are right and that clause was removed.

 

[P. REZ]

The AA work had to have 15 mainline per day to keep work. Correct me if I'm wrong but those stations left only need to keep 7 mainline per day to keep work until drop dead date of 12/31/17. Then it reverts back to 15 mainline per day.
 
P. Rez

 

[WeAAsles]

Here is a copy of our CBA. There is no "Drop Dead" date. Remember that under the RLA contracts do not expire, they only become amendable. Article 1, page 1 down.

http://www.twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

He probably reads them, but he will only discuss, or make statements on HIS interpretation of the weak aspects. Generally, he will leave out the fact that BK proceedings influenced the language.
 
ALL of this is done to make the Union Leadership look bad, so he can lobby for a change of Leadership to benefit his own political agenda...
 
Been that way for decades!
 
LOCK –N- LOAD!!

That's not a good thing. Every contract has language that we wish were stronger but to be truly credible you have to express the yin with the yang.

He is highly transparent in ignoring all the other aspects in regards to a full CBA or the situations that made it exist. It's an agenda with a singular tactic. "Stay on message, don't deviate. Stay on message, don't deviate"

 

[roabilly]

Well,my bad if he wasn't there.  Out of respect for others, I'll save my talk about credibility and the United contract endorsers. lol
 
While you are here, when you guys are formulating more questions and answers I think an important item may be the TWU commitment not to do our work if there is a strike, or answer the question if they have to.  The guys in ORD been bugging me about that one.  And the guys in CLT might need to hear if Piedmont can be used to do our work in CLT if called upon. I know Piedmont has a no sympathy in their agreement, and that our contract will be voided if we go out on strike, so if you could get some answers regarding how other union employees from other unions will Not be doing our work then that would make folks more knowledgeable and give greater solidarity. 
 
In solidarity,

WTF Nelson...
 
You attempt to completely trash a perfectly good union AGC's (MM) reputation with out-right lies, and ALL you have to say is... "My Bad"? Further.. you were told several times by several different witnesses in CLT that NO campaign materials were distributed, but you STILL re-post this garbage!
 
You are only reinforcing the fact that you can't be trusted to serve in ANY capacity!

 

[mike33]

The AA work had to have 15 mainline per day to keep work. Correct me if I'm wrong but those stations left only need to keep 7 mainline per day to keep work until drop dead date of 12/31/17. Then it reverts back to 15 mainline per day.
 
P. Rez

  The LOA for AA clearly states that " Beyond the Amendable Date Art 1c will Apply "....
 
So no drop dead date..The 17 stations have a staffing level up to the Amendable date to protect them while in BK negotiations then Art 1c applied which was the threshold for flt activity

 

[Tim Nelson]

Here is a copy of our CBA. There is no "Drop Dead" date. Remember that under the RLA contracts do not expire, they only become amendable. Article 1, page 1 down.

http://www.twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf

WeAAsles,
 
you must understand, many on this forum are highly versed on things, in fact many of us probably know more about your contract than you do.  A few pages back you tried to explain that the United pay parity calculation would be based off of $24.60 but I corrected you since you assumed your contract language only referred to wage only and not line pay or longevity.
 
I don't mean to be rude, but you really need to step back and read your own contract.  Don't just listen to everything Sidney tells you.  Sidney provided a "Time Bomb" drop dead clause in your contract.  I am fully aware that many of you were mislead and didn't bother to read the Letters of agreement which show how those 17 stations are 'time bombed' for the day before your amendable date.  Trust us, you aren't educating anyone on this forum, we are well versed.  You might want to read your contract again but don't forget to read all of the side letters.    Prez is right. A day before your amendable date, Sidney snuck in the time bomb Cinderella clause.  THe flight activity will go from 7 flights to 15 just to keep stations like AUS open. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

  The LOA for AA clearly states that " Beyond the Amendable Date Art 1c will Apply "....
 
So no drop dead date..The 17 stations have a staffing level up to the Amendable date to protect them while in BK negotiations then Art 1c applied which was the threshold for flt activity

"...up to the day before the amendable date"   Big difference Mike33
 
Kindly review:
 
"Those stations will remain staffed, with TWU represented Fleet Service employees, so long as the annual departures are at or above 2555 from the effective date of this agreement up to the day prior to the amendable date.  
 ATL  JFK  MIA  STL  AUS  LAS  ORD  TPA  BOS  LAX  SAT  DCA  LGA  SFO  DFW  MCO  SJU    Beyond the amendable date, Article 1(c) will apply."
 
This is the part where I have had issues with WeeIsles.  He just doesn't know his own contract and skims over stuff all the time.  I've tried to educate him over and over about this but he listens to Sidney who tells him that the company will only have 24 hours to exercise this clause.  Guess what, management will exercise that clause and it is in there for a reason.

 

[Tim Nelson]

In fact, it is likely that sAA may only have 7 or 8 stations in a couple years.

 

[mike33]

"...up to the day before the amendable date"   Big difference Mike33
 
Kindly review:
 
"Those stations will remain staffed, with TWU represented Fleet Service employees, so long as the annual departures are at or above 2555 from the effective date of this agreement up to the day prior to the amendable date.  
 ATL  JFK  MIA  STL  AUS  LAS  ORD  TPA  BOS  LAX  SAT  DCA  LGA  SFO  DFW  MCO  SJU    Beyond the amendable date, Article 1(c) will apply."
 
This is the part where I have had issues with WeeIsles.  He just doesn't know his own contract and skims over stuff all the time.  I've tried to educate him over and over about this but he listens to Sidney who tells him that the company will only have 24 hours to exercise this clause.  Guess what, management will exercise that clause and it is in there for a reason.

 Well i think that its a matter of interpretation...How can you have 24 hrs to enforce something if it expires at 1200 midnight and Art 1c applies at 1200 or seconds there after?...If it said 01 jan i would be concerned. Or even Dec 30

 

[mike33]

 Well i think that its a matter of interpretation...How can you have 24 hrs to enforce something if it expires at 1200 midnight and Art 1c applies at 1200 or seconds there after?...If it said 01 jan i would be concerned.

 Tim
  I think you are looking at the phrase " Day before the amendable date " as dec 30. The actual day before is up to midnight dec 31. That can be misleading i agree but i would consider it as dec 31 because it is amendable 1 sec after midnight on that date