2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

what's to research? what you have is an airline who views their employees as assets as opposed to AA/US where they are viewed as a liability.

Are we sure? Are all there rampers in house? Unionized? How much are they paid hourly? Are they full time? What does there benefits package look like? Etc?

I also don't think that average equals rampers as the amounts quoted would equal over 80 per year.

 

[necigrad]

Tim had nothing to do with it other then suggesting that the NC was  being manipulated by the EBoard.  The NC has been independent at all times and has always made it clear that they are not negotiating as EBoard puppets.
 

I don't know if Tim should receive credit for the NC sudden independence from the eboard, as at least, two of the members have gone on record in this forum saying that would reject any UA like contract regardless of whatever the eboard has endorsed.

 

[ograc]

People can keep saying what happens at UA is irrelevant but the fact is in this industry no one exists in a vacuum and what happens at one carrier has a wat of showing up in other carriers CBAs. Being in ORD you are very aware of and familiar with the structure of 141 and called every play along the way for United. You mentioned before you want to transfer to CLT, hopefully with the support you received at the US hubs in the DL elections you will get even more support when you spend time around more US employees.

Josh

I am one who believes IAM represented contracts, negotiated within a particular bargaining unit, at other carriers is very relevant. Especially when the IAM district leadership is the same between both carriers. The agreement reached by the IAM NC for the PCE and especially the Ramp bargaining unit, at the merged United and former Continental, had the potential of raising the bar for Fleet Service negotiations at US. Unfortunately, the agreement reached and ultimately ratified by the membership lowered it concerning scope, part time ratios and a host of other issues. You can rest assurred; the NC for the company has reviewed every line of the new Ramp agreement at UA. Why wouldn't they? Isn't UA now one of their chief competitors? Is what is agreed to by a common union representative at another airline relevant?  IMO... Absolutely! An issue that should be subject to consideration by the membership going forward. There is no denying the agreement at UA has not helped the leverage for the US NC.  

 

[Tim Nelson]

I am one who believes IAM represented contracts, negotiated within a particular bargaining unit, at other carriers is very relevant. Especially when the IAM district leadership is the same between both carriers. The agreement reached by the IAM NC for the PCE and especially the Ramp bargaining unit, at the merged United and former Continental, had the potential of raising the bar for Fleet Service negotiations at US. Unfortunately, the agreement reached and ultimately ratified by the membership lowered it concerning scope, part time ratios and a host of other issues. You can rest assurred; the NC for the company has reviewed every line of the new Ramp agreement at UA. Why wouldn't they? Isn't UA now one of their chief competitors? Is what is agreed to by a common union representative at another airline relevant?  IMO... Absolutely! An issue that should be subject to consideration by the membership going forward. There is no denying the agreement at UA has not helped the leverage for the US NC.

if there still isnt a ta prior to me being an agc elect, should i even win, i will recommend a rejection of any proposal or ta that addresses time off without addressing scope. And i will do what i can to persuade a nc to follow suit if it isnt. We need an eboard member from a historical class two station.

 

[WeAAsles]

what's to research? what you have is an airline who views their employees as assets as opposed to AA/US where they are viewed as a liability.

"Alaska Airlines' 580 ramp-service and stores agents are represented by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW). These employees ratified a new contract which was effective on July 19, 2012. This contract is not amendable until  July 19, 2018. "

Alaska Airlines' 3,100 flight attendants are represented by the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA). These employees ratified a two-year contract extension March 10, 2009. This contract became amendable May 1, 2012.

Alaska Airlines' 1,480 pilots are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).  A new five-year contract was ratified on July 10, 2013, and becomes amendable March 31, 2018.

http://www.iamdl142.org/Contracts/RSSA%20Agreement%202012-2018.pdf

Something personally seems a little lopsided here? Only 580 FSC's? I know obviously that they are smaller than us but look at the ratio in comparison to the other work groups. At the new AAL I think we have about 13000 FSC's. 

So maybe they are treated better than us but it doesn't seem like there are that many TO be treated better????
 

 

[WeAAsles]

13000 divided by 600 = 21.6. Is the new AA almost 22 times the size of Alaska Airlines? Are we catching on to where I'm going here?

 

[UnitedWeStand]

When he came to CLT he visited with all three IAM represented groups.

 
He did not visit the ramp! I worked that day and he went to the meeting. If he visited United or Maintenance, he decided fleet wasn't worth his time. It was kind of disappointing to me. A GLR, a GVP, two AGC's here. So many acronyms but no one in the break rooms.
Delaney has only visited the break rooms once to my recollection, 2008 I think.

 

[freedom]

am i the only one whk remebers that alaskan outsourced most of their ramp?
 
 
if i recall right they went on strike for higher wages and that was the end of them ...gone ...

 

[700UW]

No they were outsourced and the IAM won the arbitration and there was a settlement, and they were never on strike.
 
And that was in SEA.
 
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2008098978_alaska08.html

 

[Tim Nelson]

As ramp only has ramp in alaska (the state). The contract was fatal since the nc failed to address scope. The customer service contract has grandfather rights so at least that has more protection. We have to keep our unions accountable and everyone should realize that sAA only has 17 stations but many of them can get whacked after their cinderella dates expire. Also the sUA only has 7 stations with no flight activity protections. Of the employees in those 7 UA stations, part time is becoming king as the company has already mobilized 650 ft into pt in 3 short months. United may be 80% part time in a year.
so it is plain to see that the unions are bailing out in non hub stations but protecting their membership count by signing off on unlimited part time. And im not talking bankrupt contracts.

We need to make sure the iam doesnt F us at usairways like they did at united so it is vital that we press our nc and union on these matters.

 

[WeAAsles]

As ramp only has ramp in alaska (the state). The contract was fatal since the nc failed to address scope. The customer service contract has grandfather rights so at least that has more protection. We have to keep our unions accountable and everyone should realize that sAA only has 17 stations but many of them can get whacked after their cinderella dates expire. Also the sUA only has 7 stations with no flight activity protections. Of the employees in those 7 UA stations, part time is becoming king as the company has already mobilized 650 ft into pt in 3 short months. United may be 80% part time in a year.
so it is plain to see that the unions are bailing out in non hub stations but protecting their membership count by signing off on unlimited part time. And im not talking bankrupt contracts.

We need to make sure the iam doesnt F us at usairways like they did at united so it is vital that we press our nc and union on these matters.

Tim we do not have any cinderella dates in our contract. We have a station staffing methodology. That SCOPE was weakened within the bankruptcy but there are no "Drop Off" dates.

What I would like to see discussed when the time comes is the opening of those stations that were in the original MOU to remain open if the merger was consumated prior to them closing. At the very least.

 

[WeAAsles]

No they were outsourced and the IAM won the arbitration and there was a settlement, and they were never on strike.
 
And that was in SEA.
 
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2008098978_alaska08.html

"The airline contracts out its baggage handling at all airports except for those in the state of Alaska."

So unless you are one of those baggage handlers that works in Alaska I guess the "Profit sharing" really doesn't amount to much of anything.

The rampers there also do get an hourly rate much better then either of us but I think the prices on goods and services is also much higher than most of the rest of the US so those pay rates are negated by that.

I am an advocate for "COLA" depending on where you live and work but that never seems to gain traction in most CBA talks.

 

[Solidarity]

As ramp only has ramp in alaska (the state). The contract was fatal since the nc failed to address scope. The customer service contract has grandfather rights so at least that has more protection. We have to keep our unions accountable and everyone should realize that sAA only has 17 stations but many of them can get whacked after their cinderella dates expire. Also the sUA only has 7 stations with no flight activity protections. Of the employees in those 7 UA stations, part time is becoming king as the company has already mobilized 650 ft into pt in 3 short months. United may be 80% part time in a year.
so it is plain to see that the unions are bailing out in non hub stations but protecting their membership count by signing off on unlimited part time. And im not talking bankrupt contracts.
We need to make sure the iam doesnt F us at usairways like they did at united so it is vital that we press our nc and union on these matters.

Also, Cargo agents for Alaska in SEA are also part of the contract representation group

 

[WeAAsles]

As ramp only has ramp in alaska (the state). The contract was fatal since the nc failed to address scope. The customer service contract has grandfather rights so at least that has more protection. We have to keep our unions accountable and everyone should realize that sAA only has 17 stations but many of them can get whacked after their cinderella dates expire. Also the sUA only has 7 stations with no flight activity protections. Of the employees in those 7 UA stations, part time is becoming king as the company has already mobilized 650 ft into pt in 3 short months. United may be 80% part time in a year.
so it is plain to see that the unions are bailing out in non hub stations but protecting their membership count by signing off on unlimited part time. And im not talking bankrupt contracts.

We need to make sure the iam doesnt F us at usairways like they did at united so it is vital that we press our nc and union on these matters.

In our TWU contract there are part time caps to protect good full time jobs. Even in the bankruptcy that cap was only raised by 100 people in DFW. I WILL NOT vote yes for ANY contract that raises the caps or worse for more PT heads. And that "ready reserve" thing is an absolute travesty.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim we do not have any cinderella dates in our contract. We have a station staffing methodology. That SCOPE was weakened within the bankruptcy but there are no "Drop Off" dates.

What I would like to see discussed when the time comes is the opening of those stations that were in the original MOU to remain open if the merger was consumated prior to them closing. At the very least.

I thought your flight activity bar was 'time bombed' to raise in a couple years, thereby potentially losing more stations?